47 replies to this topic

[Tigers Agent]

I had the luxury of being at Tigers pro debut back in 1996 at the GMO . I followed the local guy Jerry Kelly. Tiger finished tied for 60th. but did get his first ace in the 4th round.  he came across as someone who looked like he'd  cheat on his wife some day.

[GoldenBear]

" He is transcendent as a sports figure. His story is so compelling that those with zero interest in golf are drawn in to the mix. No other US sports figure has ever garnered such interest."

 

You need to look up Dale Earnhardt.  NASCAR became big because of him, drawing in millions of female fans of which never watched NASCAR before him. 

 

The hype around Woods being the biggest draw in sports history is simply not true if one takes the population into consideration at the time the greats were around.  He may be the biggest draw currently, but the biggest ever hardly so.

[GoldenBear]

That 2019 Masters seems so far away...

Just follow the Tweets on Tiger's win. He is transcendent as a sports figure. His story is so compelling that those with zero interest in golf are drawn in to the mix. No other US sports figure has ever garnered such interest.

The draw is that he delivers time and time again. He could "will" the ball into the hole. He is the ultimate grinder getting the most out of every round. He went SEVEN YEARS without missing a cut. The world's top 10 can't go 7 tournaments without missing a cut these days.

He was battered, bruised and a shell of himself for years. Battling addictions, character flaws and true physical problems. And now, he has once again done what we expect from him, and that is to deliver on Sundays. (Although his 6 under through 7 on Saturday was the sprint ahead that sealed the deal.)

Celebrities will almost universally let you down if you want them to live up to some self righteous standards.

But, if you are here to be entertained, Tiger is the ultimate for the golf fan. So many hung on to some hope of return the last 5 years, wondering if he could ever win again. He could've easily just continued to fade from memory and history.

His epic crowd on 18 is a glimpse into a rowdiness that will be unheard of next year should he continue to stay healthy.

He might be downing Xanax, Vicodin, and Ambiens while hosting orgies in his free time but if he's entertaining me on Sunday, I'm good.

"He might be downing Xanax, Vicodin, and Ambiens while hosting orgies in his free time but if he's entertaining me on Sunday, I'm good. "

 

So if I understand you correctly since he was behind the wheel of a car it would be no big deal if he ran over your kids?  Seriously?  I am not trying to be rude but that smacks of the "I do not care if it does not affect me personally generation" we have now.

[GoldenBear]

Great summary

I'm right there with ya'

I remember one day my father came home from work with this great story.  He was always at work an hour early in the morning to allow time for cards with fellow workers.  One guy was laughing and said he was so drunk the night before that he did not remember parking his car and going to bed.  The others except my dad were also laughing.  My father tore them a new one.  His replay was this and I quote it verbatim.  "You stupid ass!  You could have run over your own kids and not have known about it."  The mood changed from being gleeful to sombre.  The man admitted he was wrong.  I am just like him and will always speak up where others simply say, oh well what can you do?

 

The fact that Woods did this while driving is simply another feather in his cap of unacceptability.  It is one thing to like this guy, it is surely another to give the thumbs up to what DPRoberts posted that you quoted.

 

Mark

[GoldenBear]

Woods is something else. What a come back. There is the Professional and there is the Private person. Sadly, sometimes the one spilled over in the other. As a Professional golfer Woods is right up there. Whatever happend in his private life is his business. I see a man who has gone to the mountain top, fell down, and climbed up again. It's an impressive life.

To this day no one seems to talk about the irreparable harm to his ex wife and kids.  It is as though thinking about them does not even enter the minds of some.  Personally nothing about that is an impressive life to me.  

[Charles]

....And now, he has once again done what we expect from him ...

And I would add to that: 'and now, he has once again done what he expected from himself'.

[DPRoberts]

GoldenBear, I usually steer clear of religion and politics in public forums. I guess I should add sports figures to that as well.

I think we are carrying on different conversations.

Cristiano Ronaldo is probably not a great role model. He has also been wreckless behind the wheel of a car.

What do these 2 points have to do with someone enjoying what he can do physically on a soccer field?

I understand you do not like Tiger and his actions are unforgivable in your mind. I have never said anything about Tiger as a person. I may very well agree with you.

If you looked at a painting and said, I really like that painting, it's an amazing work of art and makes me feel good and then I told you it was painted by Charles Manson, somehow the painting ceases to be good? I'm sure it alters your feeling you previously received from it but what made it good in the first place is not changed.

I am separating the art from the artist for you to see the others' sides here. I understand you may not want to do that and that's fine as well.

[✠ davef ✠]

trying to figure if this is a golf thread, or just a thread for someone needing a pulpit.

look here we have all done things we regret, oh well so life goes on.

i see the sport getting a big boost if he can continue, sure can't say nothing bad bout that.

[GoldenBear]

GoldenBear, I usually steer clear of religion and politics in public forums. I guess I should add sports figures to that as well.

I think we are carrying on different conversations.

Cristiano Ronaldo is probably not a great role model. He has also been wreckless behind the wheel of a car.

What do these 2 points have to do with someone enjoying what he can do physically on a soccer field?

I understand you do not like Tiger and his actions are unforgivable in your mind. I have never said anything about Tiger as a person. I may very well agree with you.

If you looked at a painting and said, I really like that painting, it's an amazing work of art and makes me feel good and then I told you it was painted by Charles Manson, somehow the painting ceases to be good? I'm sure it alters your feeling you previously received from it but what made it good in the first place is not changed.

I am separating the art from the artist for you to see the others' sides here. I understand you may not want to do that and that's fine as well.

Thank you for your reply sir.  Some may have misconstrued what I have been saying.  I have never said he was not a great golfer, of course he is.  All I am trying to convey is that it does not make him a great person which he is not. 

[GoldenBear]

trying to figure if this is a golf thread, or just a thread for someone needing a pulpit.

look here we have all done things we regret, oh well so life goes on.

i see the sport getting a big boost if he can continue, sure can't say nothing bad bout that.

It is a far stretch to say someone who despises those who cheat on their spouses as "needing a pulpit".  The facts are the facts Dave.  Woods is a great golfer but a terrible human being.  I did not use the word man because a man can keep his brain north of his belt line.  75% of marriages now fail.  People like Woods is one of the big reasons why.

 

I have not forgiven Woods because he never was sorry.  One does not use crocodile tears and a PR written speech if one is sorry.  It is self evident that Woods was only sorry that he was caught.  To further his embarrassment he would not even admit that Erin's swing beat him down.  Good for her!  This is the reason why I have not forgiven him.  To be forgiven one must be truly sorry.

 

Hopefully now the forum members here can finally see the difference between a great person and a great golfer.  This is all I have wanted members to admit.  Nothing more needs to be said.

[Buck]

Glad we're done with that now..

 

Great win for Tiger and great to see him back playing so well.

 

Golf needs this

[Mike Jones]

I'm leaving this thread open but please think twice before sitting as judge and jury because someone offends your own code of ethics. There is a lot of ill feeling around here of late and it's not hard to pick out a couple of individuals who are stirring the pot for their own amusement. I don't like it and judging from the messages I'm getting others do not either.

 

Any further discussion about Tiger around things not related to his golf will be deleted. Dragging someones personal life through the dirt is not something we want to see in an open forum. I'm sure there are places you can go to discuss this to your hearts content but this is not one of them.

[GoldenBear]

Since we are only allowed to talk about Woods the golfer I have something to say.  The greatest golfer of all time is Jack Nicklaus.  The player who holds the most Masters wins is the measuring stick of the greatest of all time.  Woods needs two just to tie Jack.  It thankfully will never happen.

[Mike Jones]

Since we are only allowed to talk about Woods the golfer I have something to say.  The greatest golfer of all time is Jack Nicklaus.  The player who holds the most Masters wins is the measuring stick of the greatest of all time.  Woods needs two just to tie Jack.  It thankfully will never happen.

Jack was my hero growing up. Luckily I had a chance to meet him as we worked closely with Nicklaus design to get them set up with using CourseForge in their design work. 

 

Comparing golfers of different generations is always flakey because you can only beat the guys who are also playing in your era. Both players have consistently done that and as of last week Tiger continues to do so even after all his injury issues which Jack managed to steer clear of.

 

I'm just thankful that I got see both of them play.

[NoPutt]

Jack has 18 majors,  Tiger 14

Jack won his last at 46 years old

Tiger is 42...That's just 1 a year for a tie

Never say never

[mcthommo]

As a Nicklaus fan,  I was glad to see 'ol Tig win on Sunday as it has been too long for the game of golf to not have Mr. Woods in the winner circle.

He is without question the best golfer of his generation and quite possibly the greatest of all time to some or most people. He has had the biggest impact in professional golf since Arnie back in the 60s took a black and white game and gave it a big whack of colour.

I still have JWN as the greatest of all time not just for having the most majors and his overall record in the majors- look at his second and third place record, but for the way he has conducted himself over the years and the legacy he has given the game of golf.  He will always be the greatest champion, competitor and gentleman this game called golf will ever have.

[DPRoberts]

Nicklaus had an incredible 56 Top 5s in majors. Now, interestingly, with today's media, he would be seen as someone who couldn't win or wasn't clutch because of his 19 2nd place finishes.

I love both their games and their competitiveness. The desire to be better and work harder when you are the best at something is an admirable trait.

They also carried the sport for their time, regardless of whether you were rooting for them or against them.

[GoldenBear]

Jack was my hero growing up. Luckily I had a chance to meet him as we worked closely with Nicklaus design to get them set up with using CourseForge in their design work. 

 

Comparing golfers of different generations is always flakey because you can only beat the guys who are also playing in your era. Both players have consistently done that and as of last week Tiger continues to do so even after all his injury issues which Jack managed to steer clear of.

 

I'm just thankful that I got see both of them play.

Good post.  One thing I wonder though is if Woods would be as good as Jack using the clubs of Jack's generation.  

[mebby]

Good post.  One thing I wonder though is if Woods would be as good as Jack using the clubs of Jack's generation.  

Would Jack be as good as Tiger using Tiger's clubs and playing the courses that Tiger plays?  The argument goes both ways.  But it's a pointless conversation because there are far too many variables and no one is right or wrong.

[DPRoberts]

Don't forget that Tiger used a steel shafted driver longer than anyone. Here's a picture of his driver in 1997.



We can talk all day about how Tiger over powered courses and won because of that but on fast Bermuda greens Tiger has a strokes gained advantage with chipping and putting that could carry him if he played with hickories.

He has sustained relevance because of his short game. It was interesting to see him flubbing chips last year. I thought he was so good chipping and putting that he could never "lose" that.

I always thought it would be interesting to see what would happen if you played with Tiger and switched after your approach (after tee shot on a 3, after a second on a 4, and after a third on a 5). As long as you aren't one that flails into the trees or hazards, you'd find he'd break 70 playing yours in and most would be about 72-75 playing in his shots. It would prove that the distance argument is not valid for most courses and you could break par if you had a better short game.