108 replies to this topic

[Joe Habiger]

I'm working on a game to but that doesn't mean it will ever come out................................................

 

Microsoft had a great golf game, EASports had a great golf game what the **** happened there?

 

I don't trust trackman AT ALL!

[Buck]

Dont really get how you come to that conclusion. What data points do you mean exactly?

It has been stated by the devs that the game (PG2) is being worked on, only negative posters state otherwise.

 

Read up a few posts Bob

 

"PG2" is essentially "Trackman golf simulator" at this point.

 

There's simply nothing to indicate a PC version (for us here) other than hopes and dreams of Mike & Andrew convincing Trackman, a non gaming company, to suddenly become interested in also being a gaming company (aside from their core business)

[Buck]

I'm working on a game to but that doesn't mean it will ever come out................................................

 

Microsoft had a great golf game, EASports had a great golf game what the **** happened there?

 

I don't trust trackman AT ALL!

 

For me it isn't even about "trust", but simply that TM, per Mike's own explanation I quoted in this very thread, is simply not a consumer gaming company.

 

Barring their desire to engage in a market they've never been in and know nothing about, there's just no reason to expect PG2 for PC at this point.

 

It certainly could happen - but it'd be uncharted territory for them.

[mebby]

Dont really get how you come to that conclusion. What data points do you mean exactly?

It has been stated by the devs that the game (PG2) is being worked on, only negative posters state otherwise.

   

 

To each their own I guess?

 

I'd actually turn the tables a bit and say ask how anyone could actually think that JNPG2 is going to happen.  I'd be pleasantly surprised if it did but I'm just being realistic here.  Give me a list of reasons why you think it's happening.  I'm genuinely curious to understand the rationale.  

[Ted_Ball]

Perfect Parallel's vision was never to build the perfect golf 'PC game' (ironically). They were interested in building a 'simulation' of the game of golf. To that end they succeeded quite admirably - no question about it. They improved the areas that needed work - physics, gameplay, rules etc. to bring it to the game we have today. There was no need for them to go further than that to satisfy their vision. The public was then expected to enhance the experience by forming social clubs and leagues, build courses, multiplay, etc. That is fair enough. Unfortunately it wasn't enough to break sales records or even maintain a reasonable player base.

 

It was a case of sitting back in my rocking chair with arms folded and with an amused looked on my face when they asked for suggestions re a career mode. It was never going to happen. And check out the 'Perfect Golf Feature Requests' forum for a good ol' pie in the sky.

 

The problem with this approach to PC gaming is that for one thing (and the main thing for me) people are faced with that lonely solo walk playing on an endless supply of (magnificently built) golf courses with no real purpose. Blokes swinging a club and whacking balls against a screen down in the basement is an entirely different world. Crikey, even I would do it. Sure, PGLS (bless them) has a nice little group of players but even though it's the No.1 venue for competition in PG1 you wouldn't say it is a raging success with numbers in the thousands when you admit that PG1 is considered the best golf game out there by the people who count. There was another site with leagues but I think they ate themselves.

 

Golf is a social game and the social aspect makes competition meaningful. 

 

The trouble I foresee with PG2 is that it will be more of the same in spite of what Mike says about 'bells and whistles'. Will that be enough to attract the thousands of people that a developer needs to justify the hours and the dollars? I doubt it. There will be a flurry of interest initially but no more than at the release of PG1. Good luck to them.

 

If it does have ALL the things we want in a perfect golf game many of us won't be here for the release.

[Stingreye]

Read up a few posts Bob

"PG2" is essentially "Trackman golf simulator" at this point.

There's simply nothing to indicate a PC version (for us here) other than hopes and dreams of Mike & Andrew convincing Trackman, a non gaming company, to suddenly become interested in also being a gaming company (aside from their core business)

Because Trackman will be looking at it as a cost benefit analysis. When they bought PP, the could have built Trackman sim or acquire it. They acquired it. Now they are doing all the work required to get PG2 working properly, the I would assume most time consuming part (physics, methods of play, courses etc). Then what is left for a pc/console version? A simple control interface they likely already have decent code for from PG1? Then decide if they want to support The people having trouble with it. My guess is the answer will be yes it’s worth it, but maybe not. Will it cost a $30 one time fee? VERY doubtful. It should never have been that affordable anyway. It likely should have been $30 per year or some meaningful revenue number. PP probably thought they could make up for it with DLC content on it.

What will likely be missing? Probably a career mode. I can see it being worth their time vs benefit. Be interesting to see what happens next.

Edit: sorry for my crappy grammar on my phone above. By the way, I think Mike said that they are literally testing PG2 already with a controller or mouse, so literally the only thing is will they let us have access and collect our money or not.

[rane]

Quoting Mike from jan 05:

 

 

 

It wouldn't be fair to make false promises about timelines as a game like this in a niche market takes a long time to put together but without the passionate community it wouldn't be worth doing at all.

It makes no sense to me mentioning the passionate community, if that community isnt kept a bit more in the loop. As it is now, all is unclear. There are no facts. If the community slowly dies here, the game then must not be worth doing? 

As others, its fine with me that they cant give out vital game information, but a small "it's gonna happen" or not post would be essential if the community should retain its interest for the game...IMO

[sideshowbob]

   

 

To each their own I guess?

 

I'd actually turn the tables a bit and say ask how anyone could actually think that JNPG2 is going to happen.  I'd be pleasantly surprised if it did but I'm just being realistic here.  Give me a list of reasons why you think it's happening.  I'm genuinely curious to understand the rationale.  

Because the only official statements from the devs are that they are working on PG2. Nothing in any official capacity has been stated to the contrary.

I'm genuinely curious as to what the data points are that you refer to?

[Buck]

Because the only official statements from the devs are that they are working on PG2. Nothing in any official capacity has been stated to the contrary.
I'm genuinely curious as to what the data points are that you refer to?

Probably the latest update (2+ months ago) which confirms that PG2 is all about creating the future of Trackman Sim.
It has no PC only future unless Mike & Andrew can convince the non consumer PC gaming company (Trackman) to enter that market (the market where PG1 lives)
 

PG2 is being worked on as it forms the basis for future iterations of the Trackman sim. We are working hard behind the scenes for a version to be released for PC and console as it would effectively be low hanging fruit as the majority of the work would have been done.
 
Trackman have no history of any games related titles but they can also see the huge potential that a new version of PG would have.

There is a LOT of real estate between "sees the potential" and "wants to enter a completely foreign market that's ancillary at best to its core business".

I think our best hope is that TM simply "allows" PG2 for PC to be a thing for us in this niche.
It's really hard to make a mainstream golf game pencil out in 2019 and beyond.

 

There's a reason EA exited and HB/2k is doing "what it can" (vs pouring resources into it)

[mebby]

Because the only official statements from the devs are that they are working on PG2. Nothing in any official capacity has been stated to the contrary.

I'm genuinely curious as to what the data points are that you refer to?

For starters - what Buck points out above.  

 

We haven't seen fresh screenshots for what??  A year or more?

 

What happened to the promise of JNPG on the console?  Many of us (including myself) were hopeful about that but they never delivered nor said anything further about it.  And why?  Trackman happened.

 

Trackman transaction speaks volumes.  I said it from day one and I think I've been mostly right.  As long as this relationship exists, the focus is always going to be on Trackman simulator work.  Note that I said focus.  IF there is any time left over then MAYBE they dabble with JNPG2 for PC use but in my opinion I don't think it will ever happen.  And who can blame them?  They are focusing on what makes them money just like any good business person would do.

 

The fact that they RARELY post here anymore is very telling.  This isn't their focus right now.  It used to be their passion.  Now it's the last (or close to it) priority on their list.  I'm not blaming them - just stating the obvious.

 

I don't doubt that they are working on JNPG2.  But I doubt that we'll ever see a JNPG2 version that has many of our interests in mind.  If anything we'll get a version of the game that was intended for simulator use, not PC use (in the way it was originally released).

[Stingreye]

Probably the latest update (2+ months ago) which confirms that PG2 is all about creating the future of Trackman Sim.
It has no PC only future unless Mike & Andrew can convince the non consumer PC gaming company (Trackman) to enter that market (the market where PG1 lives)
 

There is a LOT of real estate between "sees the potential" and "wants to enter a completely foreign market that's ancillary at best to its core business".

I think our best hope is that TM simply "allows" PG2 for PC to be a thing for us in this niche.
It's really hard to make a mainstream golf game pencil out in 2019 and beyond.

 

There's a reason EA exited and HB/2k is doing "what it can" (vs pouring resources into it)

Great points, but its MUCH easier when you literally are just porting over a swing method from PG1 to PG2.  I think that's what Mike means by low hanging fruit.   Minimal development time for whatever sales they get.   Its also why Mike has not been real big on career mode. That would not be low hanging fruit.  I have a hard time seeing TM avoid that low hanging fruit unless they felt it took TIME away from other projects that could generate money.  Given the margin on software (especially in this case, remember they are doing all the work for sim already), I would think they would be interested in it.

[Stingreye]

For starters - what Buck points out above.  

 

We haven't seen fresh screenshots for what??  A year or more?

 

What happened to the promise of JNPG on the console?  Many of us (including myself) were hopeful about that but they never delivered nor said anything further about it.  And why?  Trackman happened.

 

Trackman transaction speaks volumes.  I said it from day one and I think I've been mostly right.  As long as this relationship exists, the focus is always going to be on Trackman simulator work.  Note that I said focus.  IF there is any time left over then MAYBE they dabble with JNPG2 for PC use but in my opinion I don't think it will ever happen.  And who can blame them?  They are focusing on what makes them money just like any good business person would do.

 

The fact that they RARELY post here anymore is very telling.  This isn't their focus right now.  It used to be their passion.  Now it's the last (or close to it) priority on their list.  I'm not blaming them - just stating the obvious.

 

I don't doubt that they are working on JNPG2.  But I doubt that we'll ever see a JNPG2 version that has many of our interests in mind.  If anything we'll get a version of the game that was intended for simulator use, not PC use (in the way it was originally released).

PG2 is and will be Trackman sim with a mouse or controller input.  Given that Mike said they are already testing PG2/Trackman sim with a controller or mouse, we are REALLY talking about do they release it or not. 

On thing that doesn't look good, they decided not to release TM courses as DLC's and that would also classify as low hanging fruit.

Let's hope that PG2 they bother releasing because we can all agree the next TM sim is in progress, they have stated they already built a controller input to test it, so really its a "release it or not" thing.

[Buck]

...we are REALLY talking about do they release it or not. 
 
On thing that doesn't look good, they decided not to release TM courses as DLC's and that would also classify as low hanging fruit.

Both good points you made.

The thing about "release or not" is that there are support and reputational costs to just "releasing it".

It's far beyond just being a whole bunch of un-realized easy to capture no strings attached profit hanging out there.

[Joe Habiger]

With the many designers here TM could make a lot of money if we wanted to give away the rights so they could sell it to there sim users. We would have the choice to sign the rights away and maybe a small fee came our way if they decided they wanted it and would probably have to meet some criteria kind of like the par 3 courses but they COULD make quite a bit of money. Or I can't remember does it state they have the right to anyone of our courses built in course forge no matter fiction or nonfiction?

I would love to redo Hazeltine all over again with better textures and the overlay feature but as of right now i'm wondering if I really even should waste my time. They could have the rights to it and could either deal with Hazeltine themselves or it could be called something else so it could be sold but even called something else I am not sure it can be sold without a license??

 

You have to look at all options and situations for a game, there is money to be had but you just have to do it the right way. We paid quite a bit of money back in the day for links courses and course packs, money is a bit easier to come by now so that was quite a lot back then and look how many they sold. There is nothing wrong with DLC but you just can't scare people off or you won't make much.

[Buck]

One year ago I made this image sort of "for fun"...

It's really depressing how prophetic it really was..

 

[jspirate]

One thing that Trackman should be interested in is the plethora of golf courses that come from the PC community (even though that doesn't seem to be the case ATM for Trackman).  They are available for the most part because of the PC players that make them. There is good reason to make the PC end work because without us the variety of courses will be spectacularly lame.  Unless there is backwards compatibility with PG1?

 

Maybe that's just wishful thinking...

[Charles]

 

The problem with this approach to PC gaming is that for one thing (and the main thing for me) people are faced with that lonely solo walk playing on an endless supply of (magnificently built) golf courses with no real purpose.
 

Well Ted, that could be in your case, but there are players who play exclusively multi play with voice chat, and I can assure you that that experience is right up there with the real thing... save the costs and exercise ofcourse! Although JNPG is still Beta, the many fantastic courses, the competitions and friendly play go a long way in keeping the flame burning. For now anyway.  But I get your drift.

[Stingreye]

One thing that Trackman should be interested in is the plethora of golf courses that come from the PC community (even though that doesn't seem to be the case ATM for Trackman).  They are available for the most part because of the PC players that make them. There is good reason to make the PC end work because without us the variety of courses will be spectacularly lame.  Unless there is backwards compatibility with PG1?

 

Maybe that's just wishful thinking...

If you go by the older official postings, they intended on making a conversion tool to bring the course over to the newer CF.  

[jspirate]

If you go by the older official postings, they intended on making a conversion tool to bring the course over to the newer CF.  

 

Yeah, it was my understanding that Trackman can't utilize all the current courses (as it stands right now).  I was pondering if future trackman updates would somehow be able to.  That would have the affect of making the newer courses built in a newer version of unity slightly less exciting as the trackman users would have access to the 300+ that are already built.

[Stingreye]

Yeah, it was my understanding that Trackman can't utilize all the current courses (as it stands right now). I was pondering if future trackman updates would somehow be able to. That would have the affect of making the newer courses built in a newer version of unity slightly less exciting as the trackman users would have access to the 300+ that are already built.

Yes but remember Trackman users pay nothing for TM Sim or the courses. It’s bundled into the fee they were already paying for software maintenance on their hardware. I think they pay $1k per year for hardware and $1k per year for software. Most TM users are more likely using the portion of the software for fittings and trackman combines than Sim too. So really most TM guys view TM Sim as “free” vs E6 that they had to pay for.