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#1 Joe Habiger

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 07:41 PM

When I designed Hazeltine the guys at OGT said I pretty much had to have 6 pins or it would be nice. I played The Masters tournament with my 6 friends I play with every Friday night and we played twosomes and then the second round we grouped up according to lowest scores. I never really gave this a thought until we played Friday night but some of us had different pins because of this 6 pin bullshit. 

 

Maybe we are the only ones that have groups of people playing every week instead of two people but I could care less what OGT says, I will never put anymore than the 3 pins because we as designers are screwing people over and really were only serving one fricken group. We can't pick a specific pin and have only that pin for online play or else I would have no problem with it. 

 

I would suggest to designers out there, don't do it. 3 pins or some of us tournament people that don't belong in an elite pay for play group will suffer because of it. Everyone of us should be playing the exact same pins as other groups of golfers.

 

Sincerely,

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#2 Stingreye

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 09:18 PM

Ummmm NO!!!!!!

Sorry, if it’s really that big of a deal to you, use PGLS to setup your conditions then they will be identical. Why limit the rest of us because you don’t want to use their free tool that would enable you to access the pins you want.......

If someone can correct me if I am wrong but I am fairly sure that would work just fine.
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#3 DoGgs

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 09:25 PM

sounds like one of the group had the wrong course version???


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#4 Thinman

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 09:31 PM

Should actually be 8 pins per hole so you can run a 4 round tournament without duplication.

 

Please add pins.  Thanks for you participation.



#5 Stingreye

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 10:03 PM

sounds like one of the group had the wrong course version???

Thats a good point,  for some reason I was thinking it only selected the first pin at each difficulty anyway.   It seemed like i always had to test pins in practice mode vs playing.



#6 zmax - sim

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 11:51 PM

They were playing 2 separate multiplayer lobby (non-api) groups from what it sounds like. So pins can be different.  Not a problem with api tournaments if exact pins were chosen.


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#7 shimonko

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 12:36 AM

OGT accepts anyone - with over 500 members, I would suggest it is your group of 7 which is elite.

If $20 / 6 months is considered elite pay to play, please let others know how to join your free Friday night group.

That said, you are free to design however you want. 



#8 Joe Habiger

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 02:50 AM

We played in 3 groups, two of us had same pins and one of us didn't so there for one group probably had an easier set of pins. And no there is only one version of ANGC 2019 course. 

 

I do not pay to play even if it's only $20.

 

Sorry to make a suggestion, sounds like none of you really care which is fine.


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#9 jmk59

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 03:42 AM

Joe,

 

AGOL (Skunky's 2019 Augusta) has 6 pins per green - 2 of each flavor (Easy, Medium, and Difficult).  PG randomly selects what pin (of the two) each group will play.  If each of your three groups is playing their own instance of PG, all three groups at difficult pins, here are the possibilities:

 

You have 8 outcomes of pins: (2 pins)^3 groups = 8 outcomes.  Only 2 of 8 (25%) have everyone playing the same pin (1 or 2).  75% have 2 groups playing the same, and the other group playing a different pin (your scenario).

 

All that being said...I agree with you completely.  Not having the ability to hand pick tees and pins, on a hole-by-hole basis is (for me) is like jumping in a time machine and playing the features available with Mean 18.



#10 shimonko

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 10:46 AM

Sorry to make a suggestion, sounds like none of you really care which is fine.

What you're running on Friday night is an event which JNPG decided to support via its API to allow great extensibility as OGT and I take it PGLS has done - rather than building in event support. I don't know how receptive Andrew is to issuing more API keys, but it may be worth looking into so you can create your own events using the same pins. You would have the same problem with wind direction too.


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#11 DennisHarris

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 04:26 PM

OGT accepts anyone - with over 500 members, I would suggest it is your group of 7 which is elite.

If $20 / 6 months is considered elite pay to play, please let others know how to join your free Friday night group.

That said, you are free to design however you want. 

LOL!  1st thing OGT has more than seven members.  #2.  $20 every 6 months is a great bargain IMHO. #3 I am certainly not trying to belong to an elite group.  I simply get alone great with OGT members.  No quitters, and discord channels for pick up funners with fellow members. Also 3 Pins per hole is not sufficient  for Tournament Directors to set tournament under some conditions.   Why designers choose pin locations with little regard to 13 and 14 stimp is beyond me.  Now do not get me wrong some Designers are thoughtful in pin placements with fast stimps in mind. Just saying.  I love all the designer courses also.    Just some feedback.

 

Note: I agree that 4 pins per hole would be sufficient for every course.


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#12 axe360

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 05:17 PM

While I never did like putting 2 of each pin in, you can see why anyone would like a little variety. Since OGT, (not sure about PGLS) can pic exactly which difficult pin,med pin or easy pin that they want the tournament to be held on, that takes care of making sure Everyone in said tourny is on the same pin.

 

In TWPC we installed only 3 pins and were done with it.

 

But then I fall back on at least having a little variety so maybe 6 does the trick?

 

My biggest thing as a designer is, why can't we have the ability to pic Exactly which pin I want to test on. I know I can choose All of them in practice mode but that still doesn't let me pic the exact one I want to putt into the cup each time. Makes for a lot of extra work to get that pin tested.

 

In the end, I can install 12 pins or more if I wanted to but good luck making sure each one is dialed in.

I would rather do what makes my courses appeal to all.


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#13 Sliceapottomus

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 05:57 PM

Our members choice tournament lets users pick the exact pin if he/she wants. Not 1 in 6 months did any user actually take the time to go into practice mode to tell us which pin they wanted. It was always easy medium or hard. as far as who to blame it should go to Perfect golf. for 1 it almost always chooses the same pin for difficulty level. second for not letting the user define which pin they would like to play. So over at OGT we  tried to do that for peeps. If you were a member at OGT and had 5 or 6 guys that wanted a tourney to play with a specific pin placement wind direction and speed we could control that.... I always wanted to put a few weekly or monthly competition events set by users to play for funners and ladders...


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#14 Joe Habiger

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 08:40 PM

I am not going to pay $20 for OGT when NONE of us play official tournaments, we like to play in our group or 6 every friday night and that's it. We have also been doing this for over 5 years EVERY FRIDAY NIGHT. I know many of you also know probably quite a few of these guys from back in the day with other golf games but the big guy I know almost all of you know is Brian Silvernail. I have known him since way back in the Jack Nicklaus 4 days and since now. And also on non majors we only play skins and points in 3 somes so it's not that big of a deal but now that I know even with two threesomes we still will probably not be playing the exact same pins. Again I know almost everyone of you could care less because you either play OGT which you can have that perfect exact pin in your tournaments or most of you either play single or in groups but we can't play in 6 somes because that will take forever and we are all in different time zones.

I have no problems with variety of pins if you can pick the exact ones for all of us in our 3 groups of two. The only time we play this way is on Major's and we have been doing that for a very long time to since the Custom Play Golf days.

 

PGLS and there create a game will not work because you also cannot select the pin besides easy, medium or championship plus I think this is only for ladder matches and I don't do that.

 

It's not the $20 but it's like paid courses that come out, not everyone of us is going to buy that course. With over $500 at $20 a pop that's more than $10,000, somebody is getting rich over there because server hosting hardly takes any money per year and you are not even hosting courses. But if you want to charge $20 I could careless but again we do not play tourneys, we play our fun rounds every friday night and that's it. Variety is fine but we all know where that sunday pin is on 18 at Augusta right? You still have to put the ball in the hole so who gives a rat if it's in the same position all the time.

 

Were all just letting one group dictate how we design, not every green is meant to have more than 4 pins. Hazeltine was tough to put in 6 pins because the greens can be kind of slopey but I HAD TO PER OGT.. 


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#15 Sliceapottomus

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 07:15 PM

just sayin ' your beef is with the game and evidently real courses. I say this because most golf courses have multiple pin positions for  three different sections of the green. Most that I Have played have front middle and back. but hey if you like to just play the same pin over and over again that's up to you....


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#16 Joe Habiger

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 07:38 PM

I just want all of us to play the same pin and we shouldn't have to pay $20 to do so, when your playing a major or any tournament with multiple people no one should have an advantage.


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#17 Sliceapottomus

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 09:06 PM

In any tournament , at least at OGT , everybody plays the same pin and weather conditions. We ask designers to put at least 2 pins for each difficulty level for a total of 6 for variety.  Just making a point that the original post  made it sound like ogt was asking designers to do a bunch of extra unneeded work.... You have to put 3 in at minimum so while designing putting in 2 front pins  2 medium pins and 2 back pin locations did not seem like an unreasonable ask....this allows 4 different pin locations for 4 different rounds of a tourney.


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#18 DPRoberts

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 10:18 PM

I am not at home at the moment to test this but I believe there could be a solution that pleases both sides of this argument.

What if... The designers placed 1 pin for Easy on each hole, 1 pin for Medium on each hole, and multiple pins for Difficult on each hole? (Assuming this can be done this way.)

As such, JoeH and his friends would have the ability to play 2 unique rounds where they played identical pins, either Easy or Medium.

OGT and PGLS could still have choice of 4+ pins as designers can keep adding pins to the Difficult type. The API set up is not limited to type. They have a choice of all pins on each hole.

Now, for the designers, I would suggest pins basically be placed with thoughts of "days" or "locations" versus type. And then, there could be a mix of easy, medium and difficult in a single round. (I would argue this is more logical anyhow, especially since no "career mode" exists and the need for only "easy" pins in a round is a bit silly.)

Olive branch??
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#19 Stingreye

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 10:41 PM

Level headed, rational suggestions, have NO PLACE on the Internet @dproberts. J/k, great idea!

#20 Affo

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 10:48 PM

Joe,

 

Just a question. If you and your friends played a PGLS event, which you can play together, you will all play the same pin as each hole has a pin chosen. You could keep your own leaderboard for your group?

 

You can group together to play round 1, then as you guys like to do, pair up for the other rounds based on your leaderboard positions?

 

A thought.


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