41 replies to this topic

[theclubpro]

I always considered a true pc gamer as someone that plays strictly pc games or mostly pc games anyways.

[Buck]

Let’s be honest..

A “true PC gamer” in 2019 would look at PG graphics and basically cringe

I love the game for what it provides in terms of golf, but it’s about 10 years in the past in terms of visuals.

[jspirate]

Just wanted to share that Amazon has a 2TB SSD for $40 off today... ($199)

1TB is $107

SanDisk Ultra 3D NAND 2TB Internal SSD

[Abe]

I always considered a true pc gamer as someone that plays strictly pc games or mostly pc games anyways.

 

I agree. The other characteristic of a PC Gamer is a person who upgrades their PC to play their most demanding game with ease.

[Pappy]

Lots of good info! Thanks!

[DennisHarris]

Let’s be honest..

A “true PC gamer” in 2019 would look at PG graphics and basically cringe

I love the game for what it provides in terms of golf, but it’s about 10 years in the past in terms of visuals.

I agree with the graphics content.  Except I do not cringe.  I also think PC Golf games tend to eat up graphic card or in JNPG, CPU overhead.  Nature of the beast.  Another factor to consider is the limitations of the Unity program.  Which supports two PC golf games.

But none of this solves pappy's concerns of being left behind.  Or for that matter any mid level computer owner.   A very good gaming computer now days is imho a minimum of  a 1000.00 dollar investment for a home built machine and 1600.00 + for over the counter machine...  Hell a premium graphics card is one half of the PC builds cost.  Good CPU's are fairly cheap.  As are motherboards, memory and power supplies in comparison.  

[Buck]

I agree with the graphics content. Except I do not cringe. I also think PC Golf games tend to eat up graphic card or in JNPG, CPU overhead. Nature of the beast. Another factor to consider is the limitations of the Unity program.
But none of this solves pappy's concerns of being left behind. Or for that matter any mid level computer owner. A very good gaming computer now days is imho a minimum of a 1000.00 dollar investment for a home built machine and 1600.00 + for over the counter machine... Hell a graphics card is one half of the PC builds cost. Good CPU's are fairly cheap. As are motherboards, memory and power supplies.

Preaching to the choir my friend…
I’ve been pretty vocal about this on the 3-D grass front as I am using a very medium range graphics card these days.

Maybe “cringing” is too strong. I can go with you there.
This game looks close to a decade old, visually, even on the best of systems.

I don’t really buy that it has much to do with Unity because I have seen amazing looking Unity games.

In any case it is by far the best golf game out there these days, so I am very happy it exists no matter what it looks like.

[Greensboronclion]

I don't think the next golf game we see whether JNPG2 or TGC2020 takes a big leap graphic wise no matter what equipment you have. The problem is and EA Sports figured it out with TW and then Rory that there just isn't a big enough audience to pump a big chunk of change into it so what we get next if there is a next might have more bells and whistles but not a big leap graphically. The truth is the best looking game was Rory with that Frostbite engine but it didn't sell. Golf video game are a niche market and younger people don't play them. I am happy with what we got just give me a game with more bells and whistles and some 3D grass with a career mode and I would be delighted. By the way only 47 guys completed the weekly PGLS event all four rounds which proves part of what I am saying about audience.

[jspirate]

I don’t really buy that it has much to do with Unity because I have seen amazing looking Unity games.

 

 

It is almost totally a Unity issue.  The version that we are forced to use with course forge is 4 generations old.  Unity has made some nice advancements since 2015 and designers can't use the newer versions.  To add to that, a  vast majority of the apps that are available don't work with Unity 5.2.  Who in their right mind would create an app for unity 5.2?

 

In fact, the 3DG grass app developer had to make a special version available for the course forge users.  You have to buy the current version and then use your invoice to download a backdated version for unity 5.2.  There are also many designers who bought apps 3 years ago and the developer has since updated the app and it no longer works with 5.2 .  So, they export the app from an old project to get it to work in a new project.  You can't buy it from the app store and make it work (at least not without some trickery)

 

In the world of game development, we are in the dinosaur age lol

[Buck]

It is almost totally a Unity issue.  The version that we are forced to use with course forge is 4 generations old.  Unity has made some nice advancements since 2015 and designers can't use the newer versions.  To add to that, a  vast majority of the apps that are available don't work with Unity 5.2.  Who in their right mind would create an app for unity 5.2?
 
In fact, the 3DG grass app developer had to make a special version available for the course forge users.  You have to buy the current version and then use your invoice to download a backdated version for unity 5.2.  There are also many designers who bought apps 3 years ago and the developer has since updated the app and it no longer works with 5.2 .  So, they export the app from an old project to get it to work in a new project.  You can't buy it from the app store and make it work (at least not without some trickery)
 
In the world of game development, we are in the dinosaur age lol

None of that sounds like a fault of Unity or its capabilities, but rather that CF/PG aren’t being updated anymore.

[jspirate]

None of that sounds like a fault of Unity or its capabilities, but rather that CF/PG aren’t being updated anymore.

 

Unity 5 doesn't have the capabilities of Unity 2018.

[Buck]

Unity 5 doesn't have the capabilities of Unity 2018.

Got it.
So the capabilities of a Unity game are not the issue, but rather that PG is old and using outdated versions, correct?

[DPRoberts]

I see CF as a Unity plugin. Most developers continue to update as Unity gets updated so their asset can continue to work in newer versions. There are several script commands that get changed that then no longer work. However, there must've been reasons they didn't want to continue to change their code to accommodate newer Unity.

I'm sure every developer faces this and has to decide whether newer features are worth updating for. It's a matter of time and resources. Career mode, mo cap animations, left handed golfer, female Avatar or newer Unity... Oh wait...

However, Birdie is proving it's not always about the version of Unity. His images are as good or better than anything I've seen for VG2, which is on 2018, I believe.

[jspirate]

Got it.
So the capabilities of a Unity game are not the issue, but rather that PG is old and using outdated versions, correct?

 

I think DPR summarized it well.  We are forced to use Unity 5 which is an older version of Unity.  The newer versions have implemented improved ways to optimize game performance, especially graphically.  Really the gaming industry has been the driving factor.  Gamers want huge worlds like Red Dead Redemption that flow seamlessly without lag.   So, they are finding ways to optimize for those worlds so that they perform well.  Often times they are designed for different platforms some of which are fairly old now (PS4 and Xbox 1).  A golf course may not be as resource intensive as Red Dead, but unless you have the latest and greatest computer its pretty easy to run into golf course performance issues/limitations.   So, designing on the latest version of Unity would provide addition options with respect to optimization.  It’s up to the designer to utilize those and sometimes it takes some work, but I can tell you I would like the option of doing so.

 

And then there are the 3^rd party apps.  Some of the stuff being developed outside of unity can really help with optimization, but if its not compatible with Unity 5.2.3, then its of no use to us.  A developer making an app today is most likely not going to make it compatible with 5.2.3.  Maybe 5.6, but probably not 5.2.3.

 

Luckily DPR and Birdie were able to talk to 3DG shader app developer to get an older version.  I also have an app that I use like that.  Since purchasing it, it no longer runs on the version of Unity we use.  The developer updated it to take advantage of features with the new version of Unity.  Luckily for me, he made an archived version available to me, but I am the only one using it, so I doubt he will do that for very long.

 

Technology is moving at the speed of light and Four years is a LONG time.  During this time, course forge community has done a phenomenal job of squeaking out performance and aesthetic gains.  Imagine what they could do with the latest and greatest!

[Buck]

Technology is moving at the speed of light and Four years is a LONG time. During this time, course forge community has done a phenomenal job of squeaking out performance and aesthetic gains. Imagine what they could do with the latest and greatest!

So true
Fingers crossed

[JCat04]

Sounds like jspirate and DPRoberts have encapsulated the current plight of Course Forge, JNPG, and Unity 5.2 quite well.  It certainly makes sense to me.  I would imagine that if we ever see a Perfect Golf 2, it will use Unity 2019, at the very least.  It's currently in beta release 2019.3b from what I read.

[DPRoberts]

They may have upgraded but last I heard VG2 was built in Unity 2018.

If you're 70 percent done with a project, you have to really ask why would we upgrade at this point?

They should've at least taken PG1 to Unity 5.6 and allowed some third party scripting. Oh well...

[JCat04]

They may have upgraded but last I heard VG2 was built in Unity 2018.

If you're 70 percent done with a project, you have to really ask why would we upgrade at this point?

They should've at least taken PG1 to Unity 5.6 and allowed some third party scripting. Oh well...

 

By VG2, do you mean PG2?

[slewin]

Don't know how many out there have high end machines with lots of HD space but imo goal of PG is to include as many people as possible, not drive them away!
Two things are doing that imo.
1. This 3DG for starters is eating up my FPS where maybe there's only about 3 or so that are playable (above 20 fps). Low fps may cause problems in match play (does it?). Anyway focusing on high end players won't draw new players in. I'd rather have a smooth running game than a pretty game!
2. Imo there's no reason for courses over 350Mb. I personally don't load any courses over that size for the main reason is I only have a 250Gb SSD. The way I look at it if a designer can't stay below that figure then he shouldn't be designing (strong words, i know, but I've seen excellent courses WAY lower than that!
Anyway just my take. I don't a person should have to go out and buy a new computer just to keep playing this excellent game!

Well I dived head first into xplane about 3 months ago and just downloaded a scenery package weighing in at 207gb
That’s not a typo!!
Generally hdd space is cheap and those extra pixels or whatever are well worth it.
Unfortunately new tech in all games can outrun older machines and you can’t stop progress
Just my thoughts.

[Buck]

Well I dived head first into xplane about 3 months ago and just downloaded a scenery package weighing in at 207gb
That’s not a typo!!
Generally hdd space is cheap and those extra pixels or whatever are well worth it.
Unfortunately new tech in all games can outrun older machines and you can’t stop progress
Just my thoughts.

 

I'm not sure if XP in particular is a fair example.

That program has always been one that you could dial up to detail levels that can choke any hardware you throw at it.

As I'm sure you know, flight sims in particular can sort of always have that optionality.

 

In any case - what was 207gb?

One of the new TrueEarth regions from OrbX?

Liking it?