17 replies to this topic

[Riddler]

As a long time computer golfer I was thinking why have there been so many different golf games and why did the best one's not survive.  I tried them all but really only stuck with two, Links and PG.  Links 2003 was such a great game, for it's time, but after being bought by Microsoft just faded away.  PG came along and was outstanding with so many opportunities to be the best golf game ever.  Here are the questions:  Why did Microsoft let Links 2003 die?  Why didn't EA or any other video company rescue it?  Why didn't PG get PGA approval?  How did HEB get PGA approval?  Why doesn't another company buy PG?  Will PG really just disappear without any company trying to save it?  If golf games are not money makers why did EA make so many different versions?  Why does HEB continue to come out with newer versions but does not get it right?  Why won't Mike or Andrew just tell us what is the future of PG?  Why does Mike Jones still come to this forum almost daily?  

I know you must think I am crazy to ask questions like these but really frustrated that a golf game, as good as PG, has not got the recognition it deserves by any other company.  If  PGA Tour 2K21 can get so many people interested and in so many ways is inferior to PG why can't the current PG owners see the opportunities for the success of PG?  Over 25 pages of comments on PGA Tour 2k21.  Some are excited about the game others were and are losing interest while others, like myself, just don't  see what makes it worth buying, other than it is new.  

Finally many have left PG because they are bored, or tired of no updates or just want something new.  Hate to see this and understand to a point.  Still game is beautiful, great physics, awesome golf courses and fun to play.  Hopefully the 2k21 players will return or, even better, we finally get an updated PG.  Until then you will always find me on the PGLS leaderboard until there is no else to compete against.  Talking PGLS, Mark has been a savior for PG.  If not for him it would have died long ago.  PG lifers owe him much.  He is the best! 

[curtis rogers]

Great post, hope someone reads this and does something.

[Justin9926]

As a long time computer golfer I was thinking why have there been so many different golf games and why did the best one's not survive.  I tried them all but really only stuck with two, Links and PG.  Links 2003 was such a great game, for it's time, but after being bought by Microsoft just faded away.  PG came along and was outstanding with so many opportunities to be the best golf game ever.  Here are the questions:  Why did Microsoft let Links 2003 die?  Why didn't EA or any other video company rescue it?  Why didn't PG get PGA approval?  How did HEB get PGA approval?  Why doesn't another company buy PG?  Will PG really just disappear without any company trying to save it?  If golf games are not money makers why did EA make so many different versions?  Why does HEB continue to come out with newer versions but does not get it right?  Why won't Mike or Andrew just tell us what is the future of PG?  Why does Mike Jones still come to this forum almost daily?  

I know you must think I am crazy to ask questions like these but really frustrated that a golf game, as good as PG, has not got the recognition it deserves by any other company.  If  PGA Tour 2K21 can get so many people interested and in so many ways is inferior to PG why can't the current PG owners see the opportunities for the success of PG?  Over 25 pages of comments on PGA Tour 2k21.  Some are excited about the game others were and are losing interest while others, like myself, just don't  see what makes it worth buying, other than it is new.  

Finally many have left PG because they are bored, or tired of no updates or just want something new.  Hate to see this and understand to a point.  Still game is beautiful, great physics, awesome golf courses and fun to play.  Hopefully the 2k21 players will return or, even better, we finally get an updated PG.  Until then you will always find me on the PGLS leaderboard until there is no else to compete against.  Talking PGLS, Mark has been a savior for PG.  If not for him it would have died long ago.  PG lifers owe him much.  He is the best! 

  Another company did buy it, TrackMan. I'm assuming the reason they purchased it was so they had the exclusive rights to it. Probably with the hope that they sell a few more simulators because of the software. So I wouldn't hold your breath on them selling it to another company. Or if they did sell it to another company the price tag would probably be more than what it's worth.

[DPRoberts]

From a simulator player perspective - I've always thought unless they were super creative with the lawyering verbage for the sale, PG was done for the masses.

We were hoping for an E6 type existence that could allow multiple launch monitors and encourage continued growth for the product.

Once you sell to a single entity, at least in the golf sim market, the product will cease to push limits and undergo substantial change. Currently, even if you owned a TM, you would have to understand that VG2 is about at its limit of innovation and will only get some gradual improvements, and mostly graphically.

I'm not certain of that but it's a question of what drives innovation?

- a gap/hole in the product market
- a competitor outpacing you/demand requiring your product to improve
- a highly motivated developer that is developing out of passion for the product
- a company that demands continual change/improvement

Guessing Trackman is mostly happy where they are at from a software perspective.

[IanK]

There is no argument that PG has the core of a good golf game. It’s only the excellent latest course designs that have kept the game alive. I have never had a problem with PG and still play it. What I have a problem with is the way that the devs have pooped on us all and haven’t had the common decency to come on this forum and explain themselves. 

[curtis rogers]

How true,shit houses comes to mind.

[RobV]

"Why does HEB continue to come out with newer versions but does not get it right?"

  

How can you claim that this game "doesn't get it right" when you admitted that you have not bought and played it?  Are you going by what the very few here have posted and played it?   That is an unfair assessment in my opinion.   Many are playing this game because it is a good game, with tons of features and from what I have read, is much better than the previous versions...  

 

PG, while decent enough, is unfinished, is very limited and has plenty of issues that were never addressed.   Still shake my head at people saying it has "the best physics" when there are times when the ball does all kinds of crazy things.. there are a ton of videos out there showing this.   Despite its lack of polish, it is definitely a fun golf game to fire up every now and then.   It just needs a little more of everything really.. 

[IanK]

PGA Tour 2K21 is a fair golf title but given that this isn’t their first attempt, it could have been so much better.

1) I would liked to have seen the non-tempo swing option with a more progressive slice and hook penalty, similar in fact to the PG controller swing. At present, it is far too easy to hit straight shots, even on the hardest setting.

2) There are five different swing types: full, pitch, splash, flop and chip each with their own tempo and swing speed when one basic swing could be adapted for all shots. I have never been a lover of ‘canned’ shot types, believing that it should be left up to the player to adjust the various shot parameters, such as stance, ball position, swing length, club face angle etc.etc. A ‘hard core’ option if you will!

 

Regarding the course architect I feel it’s missing a couple of options that would take courses to the next level.

I would like a ‘smooth’ option as ‘flatten’ still leaves jagged transitions between steep slopes and flat areas.

When you create water features, the CA automatically gives you a worn/dirt area surrounding the feature, with no way of making a texture, such as fairway or rough, running down into the water. 
It would be good if you could import your own items and backgrounds, which would give a more varied look to courses.

On the plus side, it’s very convenient to make adjustments to your course and play test it instantly unlike CF.
To me these faults characterise the look of PGA Tour 2K21 courses and why I prefer the look of PG courses.

The clothing and club options are good but the player creation is missing various options to create a truly lifelike and accurate character.

[DoGgs]

"Why does HEB continue to come out with newer versions but does not get it right?"

  

How can you claim that this game "doesn't get it right" when you admitted that you have not bought and played it?  Are you going by what the very few here have posted and played it?   That is an unfair assessment in my opinion.   Many are playing this game because it is a good game, with tons of features and from what I have read, is much better than the previous versions...  

 

PG, while decent enough, is unfinished, is very limited and has plenty of issues that were never addressed.   Still shake my head at people saying it has "the best physics" when there are times when the ball does all kinds of crazy things.. there are a ton of videos out there showing this.   Despite its lack of polish, it is definitely a fun golf game to fire up every now and then.   It just needs a little more of everything really.. 

I have played more than enough to know that they have not gotten it right at all in those 4 attempts, you take that timing away and you got the first ever version of TGC.  Chip is the same, pitch is the same, flop out of jail has been replaced by splash from anywhere ( what a joke that is ) Partials are still limited to anything above 90%, anything less and you lose way more power than you should when compared to the swing arc, again this has always been the case.

Regarding the timing, almost all the tour players who take this game seriously are now calibrating their clubs with deliberate slows to enhance the fast, when they then play a tour event they can easily play for a fast and compensate, basically every shot they aim x degrees out right, play the fast and bring the ball in without ever messing the timing up.  This just makes a mockery of the whole timing concept, if it was an exploit they would ban it but hey can't and are stuck with the best players employing it...What a pathetic way to play just to be gud!

 

Their game has barely evolved over 4 iterations, the career mode is a mess, some of the chosen courses are terrible and the highlights have no bearing on the results and are just canned fluff, i turned them off after seeing this, its a disgrace for a £50 game.  My last event i went to the last hole with JT and highlight cuts to him splashing for his par on the final hole, his shot misses by 2 inches and i putt for my par.  I should have won by a stroke, results come up and i have lost by 1  WTF!  Someone has further exposed the bullshit by posting videos of 3 seasons where highlights show identical shots from identical positions in bunkers from each season, typical of HB to corner cut with shit like this then charge silly money for it.

[LeazesNDR]

There is no argument that PG has the core of a good golf game. It’s only the excellent latest course designs that have kept the game alive. I have never had a problem with PG and still play it. What I have a problem with is the way that the devs have pooped on us all and haven’t had the common decency to come on this forum and explain themselves.

Bang on, that is! 

[IanK]

DoGgs, you have given good reasons why I only play against the course, as I do with PG.

It appears that online players will always exploit shortcomings in games to give themselves a better chance of winning. I hate this ‘Win at all costs’ mentality.

Play the game as you would play golf in real life i.e. I only use splash shots out of bunkers, I don’t alter the loft on pitch shots to tailor the distance etc.
True, the game has annoying issues that shouldn’t exist , but if you work around them, it’s a better game.

[theclubpro]

Besides this game and TWO,I’ve never played links,but the game i really enjoyed was golfstar.I know a few here played it but as for the swing and impact etc, I really enjoyed it.shame it went away.I didn’t care for a lot of the courses but it was a lot of fun to play

[Niblick47]

These discussions have pretty much convinced me not to buy 2k21 unless it goes on sale. I've played Links for years and now PG and loved trying all the different swing types. I bought TGC2 and did not like the swing type, and the new version it seems has essentially the same thing. Can anyone explain why HB would offer only one swing type? They apparently have a good market but why not provide other swing type options to expand your customer base. .

[DoGgs]

These discussions have pretty much convinced me not to buy 2k21 unless it goes on sale. I've played Links for years and now PG and loved trying all the different swing types. I bought TGC2 and did not like the swing type, and the new version it seems has essentially the same thing. Can anyone explain why HB would offer only one swing type? They apparently have a good market but why not provide other swing type options to expand your customer base. .

I think HB set their stall out from day one by omitting 3 click, since then they have released a further 3 games, could they have added in 3 click?  yes of course, but they are still trading off the same game structure / engine and to add in 3 click would mean a big code rewrite, its the same reason why they never added pot bunkers, people have asked for pot bunkers and 3 click but they never reply, because cost on their part is gonna apply.  The thing that stinks the most though is the fact that they are now charging top dollar for the game yet they are still trading off the old engine / structure, obviously this has kept their costs to a minimum whilst reaping the profits.  To coin a phrase " money for old rope"  and that's the bottom line.

[JoeBradley]

Almost makes me want to learn game coding so I could help develop an open-source golf sim incorporating input from many of those here who have put thousands of hours into Links, PG etc. 

[Abe]

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[OnyxCarp]

Good questions and statements by OP. Also keeping me busy for a long time...

Giving resistance to repeated nudges from my former PG bud to step over to HB I am staying with PG until the lobby dries out or PGLS retires. Already feel heartbroken to know that without intervention by PP this will one day soon happen.

[GodZilla]

I think HB set their stall out from day one by omitting 3 click, since then they have released a further 3 games, could they have added in 3 click?  yes of course, but they are still trading off the same game structure / engine and to add in 3 click would mean a big code rewrite, its the same reason why they never added pot bunkers, people have asked for pot bunkers and 3 click but they never reply, because cost on their part is gonna apply.  The thing that stinks the most though is the fact that they are now charging top dollar for the game yet they are still trading off the old engine / structure, obviously this has kept their costs to a minimum whilst reaping the profits.  To coin a phrase " money for old rope"  and that's the bottom line.

what they have now in 2k21 is a 2 click system really. It's not real time. I use my mouse to play and you can't stop in the middle of your back swing because it's not linked to your mouse you just pull back a bit and it activates the animations back swing. It's like fools gold. This is why Links 2003 and PG are better at giving you control of your swing.