37 replies to this topic

[Jimbo63]

Just wondering if any of the testers has previously designed with the Course Architect for TW2008 and if so how does it compare?

[Mick-S]

Good ?, but my bet is NO.

[IanD]

Can't say I have, sorry. I had used the APCD (Links), and in terms of comparison to that, it is alot easier. There are things to grasp though, aside from the concept itself. What I'm enjoying the most however, is the ability to go to a greater depth if you want to. Course Forge alone really isn't what this is all about though.. it's a means to an end and it's a great simplified tool to edge and blend all the shapes you want to create. The real dark horse here is Unity itself.. this is a beast, they allow to roam the fields around the huge outbuildings, surrounding the large house. Once you've learned how to ride her, and decided what direction you're heading, the treasures inside each building require both of you to carry the load..

 

I think it best you ask me something more specific next time lol.. I tend to go misty eyed and recall evening sunsets too easily at this time of year..

[axe360]

Jim, I think you and I are probably the only 2 from the TW's series that have designed courses with the 06 CA, that are following this forum.... Since I wasn't invited to beta test and either were you, I think it's safe to say the answer is no.....

 

Also even though the TW's CA wasn't just a generic architect/designer, it was never as complicated as this thing seems to be... A bit much for me, probably... Just watching the slow progress of some of the beta testers, tires me out and has pretty much made me lose interest in course designing here... Talk about a huge learning curve and the hoops you have to jump thru, man.... I don't know, I may try it someday, not sure....

[Jimbo63]

Larry, I think Mick-S did some courses for TW but his last course was for TW2007. I am sure that Course Forge will be a great course designer but my concern has always been the game play. Anything as good as TW2008 will be OK for me. I have to agree with you about the course designer. Having followed the items in the forum re designing it seems too complicated for my old brain cells, but if Perfect Golf turns out to be OK I can always play the courses designed by others.

[Dazmaniac]

I think K11 might have dabbled with the TW architect in his past forays in to the world of virtual course design.

[Mike Jones]

The thing with CF is it can be as simple or as complicated as you choose. With some skill you can create a nice course in a few hours or you can go the extra mile and create something truly unique. Our focus right now is not CF as we know it works, we know it's good it's been used by ourselves to make over 50 courses and the beta testers have also created something special with it too.

 

We need to focus on the gameplay aspects of PerfectGolf right now or what is the point in creating courses.

[axe360]

The thing with CF is it can be as simple or as complicated as you choose. With some skill you can create a nice course in a few hours or you can go the extra mile and create something truly unique. Our focus right now is not CF as we know it works, we know it's good it's been used by ourselves to make over 50 courses and the beta testers have also created something special with it too.

 

We need to focus on the gameplay aspects of PerfectGolf right now or what is the point in creating courses.

 

I totally agree!  Maybe AFTER we get a game, we can then think about trying our hand at designing, bring on the game!!

[Mick-S]

Yes I did create quite a few courses for TW 2003 - 2007, mainly real such as Wentworth / Carnoustie / Loch Lomond, lost interest when the trees and bushes got so bad doing a real course was a joke if you wanted it to look anything like the real thing.
Think I was an ideal candidate for beta testing CF as I am retired, have rhumatoid Arthritis and vascular desease in my legs, so walking is difficult hence the reason I spend more time at my comp than I used to spend at work, also designed courses for JNGBC and dabbled a bit with Links, although never actually released anything for Links.
I did beta test The Golf Club and although the course designer is probably not as good as CF, raising and lowering the terrain looks pretty similar, but of course CF has the added bonus of height maps and course layout overlays which is a must for real courses I would th‌ink, hopefully it won`t be to long to wait i`m 66yrs old, lol.

[Kablammo11]

I think K11 might have dabbled with the TW architect in his past forays in to the world of virtual course design.

 

Nope, Daz, I didn't. I would have, but nobody bothered to port it to Mac. I dabbled with the only two course creation tools available for Macs, the JN5 thing and the Links APCD. The latter crashed on me a lot because the Mac port was as buggy as an entomologist's specimen catalogue; also, unlike the Windows version, the Mac APCD remained 1st gen and was never updated or expanded later.

The fun came to a full stop when Apple (Yes, they truly are evil) decided to switch from Motorola to Intel chips - many a fine software did not survive this ill-advised transition.

[axe360]

So Mick, if you are beta testing the CF, what do you think about it, compared to the TW's CA? I realize it has many more features but did knowing the TW's CA help you out at all with the CF?

[PCDurum]

Hi guys, I've been following progress with much anticipation since Kickstarter. Just wish I had been following keenly enough to see the CF go into testing.Pretty much all I do nowadays is design golf courses for TW08 over at CGX but would luv to get my teeth into this beauty when it arrives!

I used to use the Links APCD before moving over to the TWCA and I would say using the CF won't be rocket science once you have tinkered with it a bit you will be creating masterpeices in no time Larry! 

[Jimbo63]

Hi Pete, great to see you on these forums. Larry, Mick-S said he beta tested The Golf Club game not Course Forge.

[axe360]

Thanks Pete.. I have no doubt I could handle the CF/Unity, were just trying to feel things out as we have nothing else we can do accept ask a few questions to keep the forum going...

 

@Jimbo, yes, I think you are right... So still no answer.. I think that speaks for itself...

[shimonko]

TWCA would never suffice for professional course visualization purposes or broadcast that CF caters for. Or blown up on a three screen wraparound golf simulator that people have paid $60k for.

 

I looked into TWCA many years ago and ditched it for the same reasons I never really got into APCD beyond creating test courses for personal projects--it just wasn't flexible enough. I don't like limitations. TGC's course creator also isn't flexible enough. CF is, hence it has my interest.

 

Flexibility is why Willow Heath looks completely different to anything PG have done, as will my course, because we're not using stock trees, grasses and textures. Additionally I've modified the game's terrain shader to the way I like and I also modified CF to suit my workflow. That's what I love above it.

 

I sense K11 is similar in he wants to do something with a unique feel rather than just arranging library objects on an custom plot of land. But if you wish to do that, you can, If you wish to pop some swimming ducks in a pond, it's a few seconds to drag them into your project and onto the pond. The nice thing compared to CA is the Unity world is not just golf and there are already thousands of general assets available. In time, just like TW, assets especially suited to golf courses will pop up.

[shimonko]

So I had a look at Loch Lomond and Lake Nona on TW08, Axe.

 

I can see TW08 gets its performance by billboarding tree trunks and branches very quickly - about 40 yards on auto for a modern laptop, but it does seem to vary a little depending on forest density. Some trees seem only to exist as billboarded cardboard cutouts, although admittedly I can't work out their billboarding algorithm--it seems to vary depending on whether you're roaming, dragging on the hole overview, shot cam or hole flybys. Some trees get stuck as billboards, some as 3D.

 

 

And except for trees with more horizontal fronds like pines (that would never get away with billboarded leaves), all the other trees have their leaves constantly billboarded. Although this is a great for performance and allows very dense foliage, it does cause a ton of identical looking trees. Being stuck with the trees from the stock courses is already painful.

 

With CF, the choices are yours, but with that power comes the ability to kill performance or make the game inaccessible to those with less spec'd machines. You can put a hero tree in with 10,000 tris if you wish, but don't attempt to have forests of them. If you've got a links style course devoid of trees, you have more power to make really nice, dense, long grasses. Or more power might go into realistic clubhouse models and other landscaping, buzzing bees,...

 

But if PG can get the playability of TW, I'll be very happy. This is the guys' first release though, they haven't had 13 years of evolution like TW08.

[axe360]

The trees are not billboard cutouts in 2d, if your seeing that it is either because someone has used 06 trees in the 08 game or you haven't adjusted your in-game graphical options from Auto to Manual where you can dial in the trees, grass, water etc..

Water must have the Shader level set to high or very high for stock courses and low or medium for custom courses..

Trees can be set to high or very high detail, etc etc...

 

They haven't had 13 years of evolution but there starting point shouldn't be 13 years old either..   Not saying it is but you know what I mean, I hope...

[shimonko]

I didn't want to dial in the graphics options on purpose, to see how it achieved adequate performance. On a i3-2350@2.3GHz laptop (by no means a gaming laptop or even a powerful business machine but still only a few years old), that meant cardboard cutout trees after 40 yards. I did still get the occasional bog down as well.

 

Installing it on my much faster desktop machine, no cutout tree trunks or branches at all under auto.

 

But the leaves are always billboarded even their top detail setting (except for pines etc.). As I said, this is not a bad thing as it makes dense foliage more efficiently achievable, but it also makes them look so CG. If you look at the PG trees (which don't have billboarded leaves until large distances), you'll see the foliage is relatively quite thin. It makes them look like they need more water, but by not having all their leaves facing the camera they can show translucency, sheen and (fake) shadow other leaves--the things which makes trees look believable.

[shimonko]

They haven't had 13 years of evolution but there starting point shouldn't be 13 years old either..   Not saying it is but you know what I mean, I hope...

 

Well PGA 486 the earliest one I remember EA developing and I put myself back to 1994 with it. Of course PP won't need 13 years with past games to look at, a decent physics engine in Unity and access to technology such as Trackman but I feel like you're expecting everything in PG to be better than TW08 on release. No way, not with the number of products and platforms they've got on the boil with so few developers. TW08 is a very refined piece of software. It's going to take heaps of time to refine and cover all the little things that are not important enough to delay release for.

[axe360]

You read my mind, yes I am expecting PG to be as good or better than that 13 yr old TW's 08 PC.. Why wouldn't it be? I don't think we should have to wait 13 more years for PG to catch up with 13 yr old technology?  What do I know though, I'm just a guy who likes to design courses and play a little golf, I know what I've been playing since 05 and if this new game isn't as good or better from the get go, then I can continue playing the old game...

 

I feel were getting way off the topic of how the TW's CA compares to CF?

 

Thanks for the interesting replies...Peace