165 replies to this topic

[Ted_Ball]

So what are the straightest controller and mouse models out there? You know, the ones that shoot as straight as a gunbarrel (allowing for wind). You know, straight-as-a-dye drives and approaches that I notice in recorded rounds.

 

I've included mouses because I hear tell there are models that are straighter than others. I've got a bendy one that never goes straight. Or is it in some setting with a mouse? What about 3 Clicking? Is there equipment that gets 'em straight down the hi-diddle-diddle as well?

 

I'm assuming we should all just ignore messages that appear and carry on regardless. 

 

 

[Buck]

For RTS-C:

Anecdotally from another source I've heard that off the tee the DualShock4 is straighter than the XB1 controller.  The source did indicate however that their scores overall were ending up about the same with both controllers despite this as there are other areas of the game around the course where each controller is providing different challenges/outcomes from the other.

Additionally, Mike commented that perhaps a bluetooth connection w/ Steam on a DS4 (as it's a new integration method in the last few weeks) is somehow tweaking/smoothing the input/output values being delivered to PG from the DS4 controller.

 

I'm planning to test the Bluetooth stuff with an XB1 controller next week alongside my DS4.

[shark7]

it seems the devs have the technology to detect the artfiicial perfect swing, i think they should introduce an ingame deterrant, say a 30% power loss, a 300 yard drive only goes 200 yards if an atiificial swing is detected, that way you still play with a swing aiding controller/mouse but at a penalty, i think eventually people would turn off the aids, or use a normal mouse, which i think is what devs would prefer

[Buck]

it seems the devs have the technology to detect the artfiicial perfect swing, i think they should introduce an ingame deterrant, say a 30% power loss, a 300 yard drive only goes 200 yards if an atiificial swing is detected, that way you still play with a swing aiding controller/mouse but at a penalty, i think eventually people would turn off the aids, or use a normal mouse, which i think is what devs would prefer

 

That can't work for something like RTS-C unless they dictate and support specific configurations.

Right now the message is being detected for completely normal controller connections and configurations.

 

If they specify:  "Must use XB1 with wired or bluetooth only" and support and help troubleshoot when a situation like that is still generating a false positive, I'm with you.

I sort of doubt they want to be that restrictive or spend all their time doing support and troubleshooting and thus they settled on a "courtesy" notice

[Ted_Ball]

I think anyone would prefer to hit every ball Perfectly straight down the fairway and at pins and not worry about the short game. I really want something that hits 100% of fairways - at TourPro level.

 

Oh, and by the way, what's with all those great TourPro OGT golfers playing at Pro level and shooting -13s for a round at RTS-M? It just gets easier and easier.

 

This isn't becoming Perfect Arcade Golf is it?

[ArcadeHack]

It's a game with limitations. Once the good players figure it out then the low rounds will come back into play. Rinse and repeat. Beat the dead horse and so on.

[Greensboronclion]

I think anyone would prefer to hit every ball Perfectly straight down the fairway and at pins and not worry about the short game. I really want something that hits 100% of fairways - at TourPro level.
 
Oh, and by the way, what's with all those great TourPro OGT golfers playing at Pro level and shooting -13s for a round at RTS-M? It just gets easier and easier.
 
This isn't becoming Perfect Arcade Golf is it?

You want something that hits it down the middle every time at TP it's called the Speedlink controller but after a couple rounds you would be so bored you might try and drown yourself in one of those JNPG virtual lakes. Go with either Xbox360, Xbox one or DS4 and you will find the game challenging and suicidal. Love playing with my DS4 and I sucked at Pro level but having more fun than I ever have with this game.

[Ted_Ball]

G..........The trouble is the Speedlink is an accepted controller.

 

I am, of course, sticking to my $15 mouse and RTS-M. I wasn't at all serious about trying a controller.

 

I had a feeling there was going to be a shift in the fundamental concept of PG once it was announced that controllers were going to be accommodated in the game. I'm not saying the introduction of controller play shouldn't have happened, but it has altered the shape of the game as a whole. 

 

I thought the tempo driven mouse swing was one of the great innovations in gaming. I also naively thought that 3 Clicking would become a thing of the past. That RTS-M and RTS-H hasn't been accepted universally has been disappointing for me but what it has revealed is that long-time computer golfers, on the whole, don't change. That's fine and understandable but this saga of the rise of so many variations of swing type has the unhappy result of splitting the community by forcing OGT to have numerous different tours.

 

But back to the point of this thread. People are using controllers that are helping their game in spite of the inneffective message. This is starting to drift away from what I thought was the philosophy of JNPG. 

 

A while ago in the "Forgiving controller detection notice" thread zmax-sim said, "OGT tour guidelines do not specify any particular make or model of either controllers or mouse.  There's a reason for that, which I do not want to go into here on the forum."

 

I would love to know that reason but without any transparency we may never know.

[frank70]

One thing becomes clear: the 3-clickers benefitted the most from the update. They are crowded on top of the leaderboards. The long game is easier than before and the short game is easier per se ... because of the meter. Much easier to get the tempo/power of partial shots right.

I love the difficulty and challenge of Tour Pro with RTS-M. And i don't want it any easier. But my motivation to compete at OGT is waning. Before the update it was possible to compete with the best .... if i had a really, really good tournament. That's over. 3-clickers beat me by 15+ shots after the update. And some controllers are straight as ever.

Looking forward to career mode.

[Ted_Ball]

PP can't possibly be happy with controllers that shoot as straight as a string line, can they? Where's the challenge? People using any controller that hits straight may as well go down the fairway and place the drive where they want it without bothering swinging or clicking. 

[frank70]

PP can't possibly be happy with controllers that shoot as straight as a string line, can they? Where's the challenge? People using any controller that hits straight may as well go down the fairway and place the drive where they want it without bothering swinging or clicking. 

They can do nothing about it. Every controller has a different sensitivity. If they could program a sort of calibration program that determins the applied penalty in correlation to the sensitivity of the used controller, that could be a way. But that would certainly be complex to code.

 

The only solution would be to implement an tempo element. Works great with the mouse swings.

 

All in all it seems to be very difficult to balance out the difficulty of the different swing devices. In the last update for instance the devs wanted to make the long game for 3-click a bit more forgiving (realistic?). They succeeded in a way .... but the overall scores were better/more together before the change. It's hard to do obviously. I said from the beginning that i think that the speed of the meter should be faster. That would implement more of a rhythm need for 3-click. Now it is more or less hand-eye-coordination. I doesn't play 3-click often. But when i do i am quite surprised how pretty good scores can be achieved without a big learning curve. It is no surprise to me that the best clickers in the game are on top of the fields - they are good video gamers and use the meter to their advantage.

 

I am happy how RTS-M is playing on Tour Pro. It feels very realistic to me.

[gravedodger]

Hey there Ted, sometimes long time computer golfers do change, I had to unfortunately, I was really looking forward to the RTS-M and tried desperately to love it but after testing and testing and endless frustration I had to go back to 3C

Traditionally I've always favoured using a form of mouse swing, PGA2000 and various Tiger versions and I'm hoping that when (if?) JNPG mouse swing gets synced to the avatar real time I'll be able to use it again ... at it is now I can't judge distance accurately enough to enjoy RTS-M, sadly.

As a 3C Pro level player that rarely hits the snap line I think PP have got the dynamics of 3C spot on, I certainly can't shoot super low scores regularly but there will always be players who can, regardless of swing mode, it's just the nature of PC gaming.

I don't envy PP's task of trying to create a level playing field with 'all' controller devices because I don't think it's possible, I reckon there'll always be unavoidable programing compromises that favour one swing type over another, that's not a criticism, just an observation based on how PC gaming in general has changed since the cross-contamination of consoles.

A long long time ago, in a gaming Galaxy far far away, all mouses were equal and PC gaming was less complicated ...

[Ted_Ball]

Yeah, good points gravedodger. I guess I need a challenge in my gaming to motivate me and I don't really understand how a straight-shooting controller can provide that motivation. I suppose the motivation for guys who do is to shoot low scores. The same reason people use grids and BLI.

 

I jumped onto RTS-M (and even MS before that) because it fascinated me and I knew instantly that it was something I wanted to crack. It still holds that fascination and a nicely shaped, well hit shot gives me the same enjoyment as it used to in real life. True. I'm a bit disappointed and frustrated that it hasn't become more popular from a competition viewpoint. I agree with you that the avatar syncing is not Perfect and I think that when it is, the instinctive shot-making and 'feel' that would come with it will make a huge difference. Nevertheless, there is a degree of natural judgement that can be achieved and it was coming together well for me before the latest update. Its now a matter of relearning certain things.

 

I can't comment on 3C or criticise people who still use that method. It is a part of JNPG that I don't consider. Another world. But at least if you do score well or generally hit the ball straight its not because of some mechanical assistance.

[remers]

I know it's not my mouse Ted

 

I have a Corsair M95 wired mouse which I've not been able to tame within Perfect Golf at all.  Until the latest update I thought I was getting somewhere at Pro level and was beginning to shoot a fair number of rounds just under par but having tried Tour pro briefly, I quickly abandoned that as foolish dream.

 

Since the new update started to throw up the 'cheating' message, I delved into the depths of the mouse config software and discovered that I had 'angle snapping' turned on.  This helps to keep the mouse on a straight path and it must have been something I enabled a while back and had forgotten about or it was like that from the outset, I really have no idea.

 

Anyhow, I disabled this and now I struggle to break par at Amateur and at pro I'm struggling to break 100.  So goodness knows how the -15s are being scored at TP-M because all the practise in the world won't get me close to that.

 

I like to think I'm proficient at using a mouse since my job involves using a mouse and various other pens, tablets and such like on a daily basis. I've played first person shooters for ever so I'm not averse to the fine handling of a mouse on PC but there is no way I'm shooting low with my lively mouse on decent mousing surface anytime soon.

 

PG is still a fantastic attempt at recreating golf on a PC though and I'm not bashing the devs at all, just conveying my particular struggles with my mouse setup.

[frank70]

I know it's not my mouse Ted

 

I have a Corsair M95 wired mouse which I've not been able to tame within Perfect Golf at all.  Until the latest update I thought I was getting somewhere at Pro level and was beginning to shoot a fair number of rounds just under par but having tried Tour pro briefly, I quickly abandoned that as foolish dream.

 

Since the new update started to throw up the 'cheating' message, I delved into the depths of the mouse config software and discovered that I had 'angle snapping' turned on.  This helps to keep the mouse on a straight path and it must have been something I enabled a while back and had forgotten about or it was like that from the outset, I really have no idea.

 

Anyhow, I disabled this and now I struggle to break par at Amateur and at pro I'm struggling to break 100.  So goodness knows how the -15s are being scored at TP-M because all the practise in the world won't get me close to that.

 

I like to think I'm proficient at using a mouse since my job involves using a mouse and various other pens, tablets and such like on a daily basis. I've played first person shooters for ever so I'm not averse to the fine handling of a mouse on PC but there is no way I'm shooting low with my lively mouse on decent mousing surface anytime soon.

 

PG is still a fantastic attempt at recreating golf on a PC though and I'm not bashing the devs at all, just conveying my particular struggles with my mouse setup.

I have a mouse with "angle snapping" and one without. I haven't seen any difference when i play but i use the mouse without "angle snapping" because it feels better in my hand and i have the feeling that it is more precise. I think a low dpi number is the key for rather straight swing planes in combination with the in-game sensitivity settings.

 

Try it out in MS Paint. If you have a high dpi number your lines will be considerably less straight as if you use a low dpi number. I use 0.9 sensitivity in-game for long shots in combination with a 1200 dpi setting. I have read in other threads that some are using way lower dpi numbers. 1200 dpi suits my personal motion - so i will stick with it.

[Ted_Ball]

Hmmm...

 

It's all getting kind of murky.  That's an interesting post remers. It all seems to be suggesting that there are numerous combinations of hardware and software contributing to problems or otherwise. It's almost like a level playing field is is a concept we may as well forget about.

 

If this disparity was happening on the real tour it would be shut down immediately pending a full industry enquiry.

 

It brings to mind something I posted before the game was early released. I'm going to ponder this over night.

[gravedodger]

I know Ted, that's why I mentioned about a level playing field not really being totally possible across all swing methods ... DPI manipulation has been around for so long now that it's just the norm for players to 'tweak' their mouse to the most ... well ... let's call it 'comfortable' setting for all types of games using mouse movement which in turn poses the question, what is the correct / fair DPI mouse setting for JNPG?  (oops, is that an old rusty can o' worms I see teetering on the edge of a shelf?)

Ya know, in some ways, PP's current 3C system might just be the purest form and least susceptible to 'casual' manipulation in JNPG.
 

[ProFirefighter]

I found changing DPI on my massively expensive $19 gaming mouse makes absolutely no difference whatsoever as it regards hitting straight.

 

That aside, interesting to see tournament standings have been shaken up after the last update. Normalizing game play is always a good thing.

[remers]

I have a mouse with "angle snapping" and one without. I haven't seen any difference when i play but i use the mouse without "angle snapping" because it feels better in my hand and i have the feeling that it is more precise. I think a low dpi number is the key for rather straight swing planes in combination with the in-game sensitivity settings.

 

Try it out in MS Paint. If you have a high dpi number your lines will be considerably less straight as if you use a low dpi number. I use 0.9 sensitivity in-game for long shots in combination with a 1200 dpi setting. I have read in other threads that some are using way lower dpi numbers. 1200 dpi suits my personal motion - so i will stick with it.

Thanks Frank and yes my DPI is very high but it needs to be to avoid me having to move my whole hand a foot across my desk to get the pointer from one side to the other.  I run on a 4K monitor with a resolution at 3840x2160 and have 3 different mouse settings that I can quickly switch between via a button on the mouse.  They are currently set at 8000dpi, 5000dpi and 3000dpi and these work great for Windows work but are clearly way to sensitive to play PG at a high level.

 

I'm happy with this though and find it a real challenge so no worries on that front

 

I did try a test after reading your post and set my mouse to 1200dpi and set the PG sensitivity to 0.9 and I could hardly draw the club back and I found myself running out of mousemat to complete a swing .

 

Hmmm...

 

It's all getting kind of murky.  That's an interesting post remers. It all seems to be suggesting that there are numerous combinations of hardware and software contributing to problems or otherwise. It's almost like a level playing field is is a concept we may as well forget about.

 

If this disparity was happening on the real tour it would be shut down immediately pending a full industry enquiry.

 

It brings to mind something I posted before the game was early released. I'm going to ponder this over night.

Yes Ted, I thinks it's an almost impossible task to balance the different hardware and software variables when you're dealing with mice, controllers, clickers and swingers of two different types but your thoughts after a nights consideration will be interesting to hear as always.

[frank70]

Thanks Frank and yes my DPI is very high but it needs to be to avoid me having to move my whole hand a foot across my desk to get the pointer from one side to the other. I run on a 4K monitor with a resolution at 3840x2160 and have 3 different mouse settings that I can quickly switch between via a button on the mouse. They are currently set at 8000dpi, 5000dpi and 3000dpi and these work great for Windows work but are clearly way to sensitive to play PG at a high level.

I'm happy with this though and find it a real challenge so no worries on that front

I did try a test after reading your post and set my mouse to 1200dpi and set the PG sensitivity to 0.9 and I could hardly draw the club back and I found myself running out of mousemat to complete a swing .

Yes Ted, I thinks it's an almost impossible task to balance the different hardware and software variables when you're dealing with mice, controllers, clickers and swingers of two different types but your thoughts after a nights consideration will be interesting to hear as always.

Has to be your resolution. I run with 1080p. But 8000 dpi is aaaa lot!!!! Very hard to hold the swing plane or avoid severe mishit heel/toe. As we see: even using different resolutions might have an impact.