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#21 JoeBradley

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 06:09 PM

I don't see any complete solution to this. Each player has to find a game challenge that suits them, and during tournaments to pick a personal round score, or the score of a similarly skilled player to try to beat, and try not to worry too much what settings/exploits others may be using.

 

A few weeks back, while exploring a non-standard device for PG, I stumbled on a setup that emulates the RTS-M swing. I found I could eliminate all swing plane / heel-toe variables and reduce the 1:4 swing tempo to a simple 1:1. And I can confirm, as Ted and others have said here, removing the driving/approach challenge reduces the game to a pitch-and-putt exercise at best (this device even emulated the pitch/sand-shot/chip swings at a comfortable slow motion).

 

Would anyone bother using such a set-up? Not for long. Hollow victories and all that. I sent Mike a pm about this exploit out of curiosity and never heard back, so while the devs are happy to flag up courtesy messages, I suspect they don't want to get involved in policing all the different devices and potential exploits. After all, in theory someone could build a robot arm programmed to produce perfectly imperfect swings (to outwit a perfect-swing detector) time after time while employing some AI algorithm to get approach shots so close to the pin that even the realistic green settings would be neutered. Wow, just think, you could set the program in motion and then come back in twenty minutes to admire your 20-under-par scorecard!    

 

That said, I'd hate for someone who, through skill and practice, regularly tops the leaderboards to fall under suspicion of taking unfair advantage. Is it fair to tweak DPI/Windows/in-game settings to achieve a swing you're comfortable with? Yes. Is it fair to turn off mouse acceleration so you can control tempo more easily? Yes. Is it fair to dial out X axis variability (or Y for horizontal swings) in mouse or controller swings? No. Is it fair to use a mouse or controller with built-in dead-zone/angle-snapping forgiveness? Probably. But beyond that you'd go nuts trying to decide what is and what isn't within the spirit of the game and then to police it.

 

Ultimately it's down us to set our own challenging targets and then have fun trying to achieve them. After all, we're playing for pride, not money, and you can't be truly proud of your achievements unless you play with integrity.



#22 Buck

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 06:13 PM

@JoeBradley:

 

I can't disagree with anything you said...

 

It still just sucks that the summary is:  

"Forget about really ever having leaderboards or competitions that mean anything and/or are played on the level."

 

What a bummer..



#23 Greensboronclion

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 06:57 PM

I look at it this way that my target score for events is 75 yes a whopping 75 as that is tough for me to do at Pro level RTS-C with a stock controller and to be honest I am quite content with that.  I just played the first round at the OGT RTC event and shot 74 and was tickled to death as I kept it under my number.  The thing is I am getting better but I also know I am using a stock controller the DS4 so I will be visiting parts of the course some others will never see but then again I am having a hell of a lot of fun doing it also.  I like the new handicap format as it gives all a chance but for those out there that are using a non axis controller I say to you that you are missing the fun in the game as hitting the ball down the middle everytime and hitting every green and driving the ball 300 yards or more on average is just plain boring.  There really is nothing PP or OGT can do to stop it so the Handicap is sort of a leveler of the field.  In the end everybody has to enjoy the game that makes them happy and for me its grinding it out and knowing its not going to be easy.


  • Acrilix, DivotMaker and zmax - sim like this

#24 zmax - sim

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 07:02 PM

Very well said Greens!



#25 Buck

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 07:08 PM

@Greens:

 

I totally get what you're saying in all of that..

 

But that also is sort of just an argument for playing "normal golf by yourself" (just shoot for a score you think is good for "you")

I guess we have to rely on the handicap thing to save us..

 

I was just saying that it sucks that there's nothing that can be done about any of this.

Sort of kills the fun of any online leaderboards/tournaments for me...

 

(again - maybe handicaps will save the day...)



#26 gravedodger

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 07:41 PM

I think you're correct Buck for online / tournament scores, a handicap system will probably be the only reliable measuring stick  :mellow:



#27 Ted_Ball

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 09:18 PM

Oh yeah - I forgot about being out-driven by 30 yards or more by a straight-shootin' son of a gun every time. 



#28 Mailman

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 10:03 PM

I agree with you that the avatar syncing is not Perfect and I think that when it is, the instinctive shot-making and 'feel' that would come with it will make a huge difference.

 

Not sure if perfect1-2-1 'avatar syncing' is ever likely to happen.  I feel that this is one horse that has been well and truly flogged and yet it is the single feature of RTS-M that is distinctly worse than other golf titles such as Links 2003 where the movement of the mouse was matched by what I saw on the screen.  I've given up hoping this will happen in the same way with PG and yet my system now has way more muscle than it had back in 2003.  I'm sure that a detailed reason was given by the devs a while back.  


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#29 Ted_Ball

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 10:10 PM

I'm inclined to agree Mailman. Its one of the main parts of the game that looks wrong and plays wrong with RTS-M. I'm trying to be positive and believe that the new animations might improve that aspect but, you know, we might have another long wait.



#30 Ted_Ball

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 10:11 PM

Yes, yes. I know. Everyone should be able to play the way that makes them happy. (That doesn't really enhance the community though.) That's not the issue. 
 
 
If someone wants to use the straightest controller they can find to shoot 56 or someone else plays completely naked with RTS-M to shoot 97 that's fine by me and everyone else. If those guys have fun playing against each other that's marvellous. No-one should tell people how to play the game (no, I'm not GB Mark IX by the way). What bothers me is the way JNPG is drifting to Arcade Golf.
 
If PP were concerned enough to introduce "Ch..t Detection" (subsequently dropped) and then introduce a "Forgiving Controller Detection Notice" then isn't it possible that they see it as a problem. I hope they are thinking along the lines of how unreal (in a simulation sense) straight, overhitting is.
 
Now, what can be done about it? shark7 in post #3 has a very clever solution. I love that sort of thinking. Handicaps (yawn). Swing isolationism (dead and dying through lack of numbers). Designing a competition whereby the swing type, controller type and level doesn't matter (my pick). There are other ways which are, of course, much too radical for Links tragics (only kidding). 
 
Z has every reason to defend OGT. They are doing a great job. But I wonder how long it will remain popular or if it can grow while things get murkier.
 
The thing is - this issue is much more important for me (and hopefully others) than a bit of spin on a 64W. I'm using this forum to tell you that. 
 
OK, I'm happy now.


#31 ArcadeHack

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 11:10 PM

How is this game drifting towards arcade? From what I've read it sounds as though the latest update was the second coming of Christ. I quite like the latest update as I can no longer chip balls into the hole at will. There are things I'm not happy about with the game, but that's not what this thread is about.

PP could make all this controller nonsense go away by forcing actual "sim golf" only. Ya know, grab a set of clubs and whack a real ball into a bed sheet. Of course they would fold up in a heartbeat if they did something like that.

The OGT will only remain as popular as the users who use it. But, PP needs to grow the user base beyond the normal 120 users that play this game.

#32 Greensboronclion

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 11:20 PM

@Greens:
 
I totally get what you're saying in all of that..
 
But that also is sort of just an argument for playing "normal golf by yourself" (just shoot for a score you think is good for "you")
I guess we have to rely on the handicap thing to save us..
 
I was just saying that it sucks that there's nothing that can be done about any of this.
Sort of kills the fun of any online leaderboards/tournaments for me...



 
(again - maybe handicaps will save the day...)




Buck back when I played links there was a guy there named Roy Higgi and if he entered the event he won the event and was probably the best 3C guy ever and I mean when he won ithe was not even close. Now each week the rest of us poor souls teed it up knowing we couldn't win but the goal was a top 20 or if it was a cut tournament it was to make the cut. I played every event I could for years and was happy to just play and in the end would make the cut or top 20 most of the time. I play events to compete and I know who is using a straight controller and when the event is over I compare my score to Those who use what I use and move on to the next week. If your shooting ridiculously low at TP with 300 plus yards off the tee and hitting 9 out of 10 fairways and greens your not playing with what I am playing with. My advise is just play the events and do it that way and you will enjoy the game just as much.

#33 Ted_Ball

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 11:30 PM

How is this game drifting towards arcade? 

 

Legitimate use of controllers that hit the ball dead straight with over-power at the highest level.



#34 JoeF

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 11:43 PM

Not sure if perfect1-2-1 'avatar syncing' is ever likely to happen.  I feel that this is one horse that has been well and truly flogged and yet it is the single feature of RTS-M that is distinctly worse than other golf titles such as Links 2003 where the movement of the mouse was matched by what I saw on the screen.  I've given up hoping this will happen in the same way with PG and yet my system now has way more muscle than it had back in 2003.  I'm sure that a detailed reason was given by the devs a while back.  

 

The only element of the RTS swing that is not synced to your mouse movement is the downswing and that has no effect on the outcome of the swing.  The backswing is on a 1-1 basis.  And yes, there was an explanation given when online muliplayer was introduced.  The only way to keep the game synced among multiple players in real-time was to send the shot data up to the point the ball was hit while pausing your ani. In this way all players, yourself included, would see the downswing at the same time.


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#35 DoGgs

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 12:40 AM

I got to try the stock PS4 controller today (my step daughter's xmas pressie) very disappointing pad, was hitting straight down the middle from the first tee, no surprise to see the courtesy message after 18 holes.  What was weird was that a few chip shots were shooting off to the right, almost as if it was a deterrent, off tee and iron shots were easily achieved (tour pro)  Add to this...

Giotech's

steam controller

logitechs

speedlinks

All bring up the courtesy message, after straight shooting rounds


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#36 ArcadeHack

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 12:49 AM

Legitimate use of controllers that hit the ball dead straight with over-power at the highest level.


Is that it?

#37 Buck

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 12:50 AM

My advise is just play the events and do it that way and you will enjoy the game just as much.

 

Yeah, there is sort of no other choice besides that..

 

I'm just bummed that all this time and progress in PC golf hasn't yielded some better options to combat some of this.

 

Unfortunately what ends up happening is many many people that would otherwise compete end up just quitting doing so and the pool of competition shrinks.  Just the reality.  It sucks is all I was saying.



#38 Buck

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 12:52 AM

PS4

 

Add to this...

Giotech's

steam controller

logitechs

speedlinks

All bring up the courtesy message, after straight shooting rounds

 

I really hope PP finds a way/the time to optimize for a few more mainstream controllers or perhaps at least pivots to say that "PG is meant to be played with an XB1/XB360 controller only"

 

...and then we could go further and say that OGT and other competitive atmospheres require the use of those.  

 

It definitely feels like the game is intended to be played with XBOX controllers only.  

This is pretty tricky as Steam itself is endorsing the use of Sony DS4 controllers now and have even integrated customization right into Big Picture Mode, just like for the Steam Controller itself.



#39 DoGgs

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 01:00 AM

Yep i'm starting to see only xbox pads are playing the game the way it is meant to be played...it's a shame!


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#40 DivotMaker

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 01:20 AM

Legitimate use of controllers that hit the ball dead straight with over-power at the highest level.

 

For the vast majority of others, it isn't.


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