22 replies to this topic

[frank70]

As the title says. Would it be possible to use turf effect to create a seperate "green reading view" where we even could see blades of the very short cut grass? Maybe we could read the greens without BLI or Grid using the new technology.

 

Would be a big boost for realism.

[Kablammo11]

Too soon to tell, probably. TE does display all the individual blades of grasses on the green, at least on the few screen caps we were shown, but only in the vicinity of the player - with distance, the details become so minute that they quickly drown in the finite resolution of the computer screen and get mushed into tiny, blocky pixels.

 

The human visual perception (with two eyes for stereoscopic vision) can never be perfectly supported by a single 2D screen. The human eye has a much bigger resolution than a 4K screen and works in team with another eye to reveal depth -  and a powerful brain to create a very detailed and unbelievably clever composite image at very high fps. No computer can rival this, at least not yet.  If you want maximum realism, you'd probably be better off requesting a 3D version of the game - that would be much closer to your own, biological way of spacial visualisation and likely a more suitable way to read greens.

[Acrilix]

If you want maximum realism, you'd properly be better off requesting a 3D version of the game - that would be much closer to your own, biological way of spacial visualisation and probably a more suitable way to read greens.

 

3D does seem to make a big difference. I played TW08 in 3D and found the greens much easier to read without a grid than any golf game in 2D.

[Greensboronclion]

I really hope they can figure a way to read greens without the grid or the BLI and I for one so far have been against playing this way but that is simply because in the games current state it doesn't work.  If you can get it to work with the new turf effects it would really get scoring more in line with IRL scores and would just give all another option and options are good.  I don't feel you would have a large group playing that way as most don't want to but there would be a fair amount that would and maybe we call it TP / RAW or something.  I have tried in its current state to read the greens without aid and can get a fairly decent read tho not perfect on longer putts but anything inside of 10 feet I have never been able to read and maybe the new Turf effects will solve the problem.  Here is to hoping.

[DPRoberts]

Even in 4k, 3D, I still think it would be tough to get it right. So much of green reading is a multi sense experience.

Consciously and subconsciously, you probably get a "feel" about your line in real life through your feet, the way the cut cup appears, the way the grass grows, etc...

I think they can make small improvements but gonna be hard to expect that turf effects will allow the green grid to go away.

Even with our incredible human senses, green reading is still a bit of an art that is mastered by few. That's why the pros cheat and have Stracka and slope data passed from year to year.

I'm actually working on the Google glasses patent for seeing the green grid in real life. Then, your real life experience will match the video game version.

[mebby]

I know I'm in the minority here but... I do not find it overly difficult to read the greens without the grid or BLI as it stands right now. It's definitely time consuming though. I have to use the free cam and get it down to a few inches above the turf (and pray that the dreaded bounce up to knee level doesn't occur). But after a while I got pretty proficient with the free cam and now I can make fairly quick work of reading the greens.

Is it exact? Nope. But that's what I like about it. It's very rare that I completely misread a green (thinking left break and it goes right) but it does happen about one time in every 5 rounds or so. What I have trouble reading is the severity of the break. I mean I can tell if it's a big break or a subtle break but I can't easily decipher if it's gonna be a cup and a half or two cups all the time.

[frank70]

I can tell if it's a big break or a subtle break but I can't easily decipher if it's gonna be a cup and a half or two cups all the time.

Sounds pretty realistic to me ......

 

If it could become a bit more accurate as it is right now with the help of turf effect .... i think it would be a great innovation. Could be an additional selling point for fans of good sport simulations on top.

[mebby]

Sounds pretty realistic to me ......
 
If it could become a bit more accurate as it is right now with the help of turf effect .... i think it would be a great innovation. Could be an additional selling point for fans of good sport simulations on top.

I agree that it's pretty realistic. I think that's the exact problem. People SAY they want it to be realistic but then they get frustrated when they only shot 2 under par for a round and they have three or four good birdie opportunities that they didn't capitalize on.

But I love playing this way because it seems closer to real life golf. Sure I can read a green better in real life than I can in JNPG without grids or BLI but I can also putt with MUCH greater accuracy in JNPG than I can in real life so the trade-offs are just different.

[Buck]

If the FreeCam could ever be made to go "down" and "stop" at the terrain (vs bounce back up), the entire green reading process would be significantly simpler.

 

Most of my No Aids Putting time is spent fiddling with the FreeCam to get down very low to see the breaks but while being very careful to not touch the terrain and cause the camera to bounce back up and forcing you to start all over (very frustrating)

[worrybirdie]

Or how about a function that automatically drops to ground level then goes to the hole?

[Buck]

Or how about a function that automatically drops to ground level then goes to the hole?

What I never understood was Mike at one point indicated something to the effect that there's no way for them to detect where the ground is and have the camera stop at the terrain… Yet the camera seems to know something about where the ground is because it bounces back up off of it?

I obviously don't understand the situation because it would seem to me that you could just have the camera stop going down when it detects whatever makes it bounce back up right now.

Right? Instead of bouncing back up just have it stop going down?

[Dazmaniac]

What I never understood was Mike at one point indicated something to the effect that there's no way for them to detect where the ground is and have the camera stop at the terrain… Yet the camera seems to know something about where the ground is because it bounces back up off of it?

I obviously don't understand the situation because it would seem to me that you could just have the camera stop going down when it detects whatever makes it bounce back up right now.

Right? Instead of bouncing back up just have it stop going down?

 

Also, the follow/snap camera often stops when it runs in to a slope, especially when following shots around the green, so it must be able to recognise where the terrain is, lol.

[Armand]

In my play, I don't use any other camera than the default main camera view.  Too low and I can't see the overall ground for the green.  For me, I focus on the speed such that I have a short, hopefully tap-in putt, when I miss the first one.  I can't be bothered to spend the time necessary to adjust and fly some other camera along, over, behind, beside the line of the putt.  I'm not Camillo Villegas in the game or in real life (and being that low to the ground doesn't help me read putts at all).  Just take a look at the overall green, take aim at a spot and let the putt go.  If I try to look at the game like the 2D monitor/TV it's shown to me on, them I'm going to struggle more.  Using the cameras where my eyes would be in the 3D world (or at least as close as I can with the in-game cameras) gives me the best sensation of reading the greens like I do in the real game.

 

While it's true I'm never going to challenge for the lowest score on any given hole, course, tournament, it's the best way for me to simulate the game of golf (I don't have the resources to get a real simulator).  It's not perfect - and will never be, I suspect - but it's enjoyable for me.  The only issue I have is that I can't always follow the ball with my eyes, as the avatar gets in the way ..... I would like a 1st person POV or the ability to turn off/make transparent the avatar.  No need to mo-capped anything .... just show me the game my eyes would see it and that's all I would need. 

[Ted_Ball]

Even in 4k, 3D, I still think it would be tough to get it right. 
I think they can make small improvements but gonna be hard to expect that turf effects will allow the green grid to go away.

I'm actually working on the Google glasses patent for seeing the green grid in real life. Then, your real life experience will match the video game version.

 

It's all but right now without needing grids or BLI. The green grid has gone for me before I saw it. And, with the greatest respect, I would rather stand on my front lawn naked and whip myself with barbed wire than have a green grid showing in real life.

[DPRoberts]

It's all but right now without needing grids or BLI. The green grid has gone for me before I saw it. And, with the greatest respect, I would rather stand on my front lawn naked and whip myself with barbed wire than have a green grid showing in real life.

Yes, obviously, just a joke. Golf seems to continue heading the way of Jackie Masons character in Caddy Shack 2. Push a button to launch ball.

Unfortunately, in my opinion, titanium and ball technology has already ruined the game. One day, just add the green grid reader to it. The kids would wear them and map all the greens in the practice round.

One oddity though is that I could care less if we used lasers to know the distance. Knowing the correct distance should not be the challenge.

[worrybirdie]

I'm so tired of this argument...all of these things are options. (No offense DP)

[DPRoberts]

I'm so tired of this argument...all of these things are options. (No offense DP)

Not following you. I'm talking about real life golf.

[StoneComet]

Greetings,

 

Screen resolution, graphics card capabilities, in game settings and the most forgotten difference being actual visual acuity always come into play here when discussing using aids to read the greens. I play mostly like Armand, I rarely use the free cam anymore as I feel I can read the greens accurately enough without it, special cases being an exception. Sometimes I free cam a little if I feel confused.

 

Now my putting stats are the worst part of my game so you might dismiss that to not using BLI or GRID. I'm pretty much the same even with those aids, mainly because my errors are usually about pace not the read or that I blade the ball improperly at take off. Some folks will just not be convinced or as I stated at the beginning really cannot see what some of us see. So the option to use the GRID/BLI is a good one. If we could only lock that setting, as an option, we'd be going somewhere. Folks that enjoy the challenge can then compete with one another without the fear of someone fudging when they really need to.

 

The free camera, if you adjust the speed settings to your liking is entirely adequate. Honestly, ask yourself, when was the last time you saw someone in real life on a green laying completely on their stomach or side to read the green and then stay in that position and scope around. I've seen some and I emphasize "some professionals" very occasionally get their eyes that low, but it is usually just from one angle and usually behind the ball or opposite.

 

I've certainly never done that in real life while playing. I'll squat and walk a bit,that's all. And that is what most of us do in real life, professionals included. Now you can argue that your card, screen, eyes do not cut it and that in real life you can see the breaks better and your mostly right. A lot of it has to do with mentally trusting real life conditions and real life visual cues and real life images more than a screen resolution. So for me, the free camera works perfectly fine.

 

SC 

[worrybirdie]

Not following you. I'm talking about real life golf.

Sorry DP. I must have misread it. I really MUST be tired. Think I have PUSD (post Unity stress disorder).

[jmk59]

It's all but right now without needing grids or BLI. The green grid has gone for me before I saw it. And, with the greatest respect, I would rather stand on my front lawn naked and whip myself with barbed wire than have a green grid showing in real life.

Ted, 

This isn't the reason you had to move, was it?

 

John