15 replies to this topic

[Buck]

Now that we are many years removed from EA being in the space and we see what happened with PG and what seems to have also happened with TGC… Both had promise, but seem to be kind of done in terms of development...

 

Do you guys think this sport is just sort of “done” in terms of virtual versions of it?

 

I of course mean simulation oriented versions. I expect there will always be the WGT and everybody’s golf type of games. 
 

I personally am holding out hope that something might come up with the next generation of consoles, but it just seems like interest in the sport is at a place where there is not big money interested in investing, as I don’t think they see a good enough potential return from it that so many other genres can offer. 
 

It’s really a bummer. 

[JCat04]

Now that we are many years removed from EA being in the space and we see what happened with PG and what seems to have also happened with TGC… Both had promise, but seem to be kind of done in terms of development...

 

Do you guys think this sport is just sort of “done” in terms of virtual versions of it?

 

I of course mean simulation oriented versions. I expect there will always be the WGT and everybody’s golf type of games. 
 

I personally am holding out hope that something might come up with the next generation of consoles, but it just seems like interest in the sport is at a place where there is not big money interested in investing, as I don’t think they see a good enough potential return from it that so many other genres can offer. 
 

It’s really a bummer. 

 

I'm getting the feeling that we might be done with simulation versions of virtual golf.  The game of golf isn't marketing itself very well right now, and honestly, that's my main reason why I think that virtual versions are on their way out.  Even Everybody's Golf has fallen off the landscape much quicker than Hot Shots Golf: World Tour and OOB on the PS3.  I really started realizing how serious this was with the quick demise of Winning Putt on the PC (The Hot Shots Golf of PC gaming).  It was hugely popular in South Korea, for a while, but never caught on here.  It was a better game than Shot Online, IMO, but lost traction in less than two years.  It's been shutdown for well over a year now.

 

I've watched three courses within 15 miles of me shut down in the last 18 months.  This tells me that golf is losing its luster.  There is - I think - a carry over effect of this into the virtual versions of the game, especially the simulation oriented ones.

 

I don't know what it's going to take to get golf gaming back to where it was from 2000 to 2013?  We probably need an iconic golf celebrity of that stature of Tiger Woods to come along.  Right now... I don't see anyone on the horizon fitting that bill.

 

I personally still don't get the WGT appeal.  IMO, it's one of the worst golf games I've ever played in terms of play mechanics and immersion.  Yeah, it looks good in postcard-esque screenshots because that's what it is - a mosaic of postcard screenshots.  It doesn't create a point of view perspective to which I can relate, and the swing mechanic just feels cumbersome to me.  

 

My only hope right now is that HB Studios is sitting on another release of TGC, but I'm losing faith in that more and more as time passes.  If we don't hear anything about it by the end of February, then I'll lose what little bit of hope I have left.

[Joe Habiger]

I'm getting the feeling that we might be done with simulation versions of virtual golf.  The game of golf isn't marketing itself very well right now, and honestly, that's my main reason why I think that virtual versions are on their way out.  Even Everybody's Golf has fallen off the landscape much quicker than Hot Shots Golf: World Tour and OOB on the PS3.  I really started realizing how serious this was with the quick demise of Winning Putt on the PC (The Hot Shots Golf of PC gaming).  It was hugely popular in South Korea, for a while, but never caught on here.  It was a better game than Shot Online, IMO, but lost traction in less than two years.  It's been shutdown for well over a year now.

 

I've watched three courses within 15 miles of me shut down in the last 18 months.  This tells me that golf is losing its luster.  There is - I think - a carry over effect of this into the virtual versions of the game, especially the simulation oriented ones.

 

I don't know what it's going to take to get golf gaming back to where it was from 2000 to 2013?  We probably need an iconic golf celebrity of that stature of Tiger Woods to come along.  Right now... I don't see anyone on the horizon fitting that bill.

 

I personally still don't get the WGT appeal.  IMO, it's one of the worst golf games I've ever played in terms of play mechanics and immersion.  Yeah, it looks good in postcard-esque screenshots because that's what it is - a mosaic of postcard screenshots.  It doesn't create a point of view perspective to which I can relate, and the swing mechanic just feels cumbersome to me.  

 

My only hope right now is that HB Studios is sitting on another release of TGC, but I'm losing faith in that more and more as time passes.  If we don't hear anything about it by the end of February, then I'll lose what little bit of hope I have left.

 

The problem with real golf is is becoming almost too expensive to do. We are not losing courses hardly at all in Minnesota and we have tons but most of them are VERY cost prohibited to do more then once every two-three weeks. At $50 a round and $18 for a cart (i'm too old to walk 18..lol), it just seems like something I can't do very often anymore. Sure there are some cheapies but the courses look like it or are horrible designs.

Mike and Andrew did a shit job of marketing this game and sold it before it had any chance, they fucked up, we did not... They could have made much more in terms of money by micro transactions but ultimately they sold us out for greener pastures with rich mother f'in real pga tour pros and snobby country club golf clubs buying trackman 4 units and VG2.

 

TGC 2019 is actually a pretty good golf game and by releasing it for the PS4, XB1 as well (something the others f'ed up again on) I don't think it's doing to bad I bet even though there might not be another release. The amount of users playing that game is still staggering. They also could have made more money with micro transactions, I've said it before that if done right and not over charging for things you can do well and there is nothing wrong with it.

 

Shot Online was kind of cool but first starting out and hitting only like 190 yards with a driver was to be quite truthful, ******* retarded....

 

WGT is ******** stupid as hell but they make a killing off it with all the microtransactions. I don't think golf is dead even as a game title but it might be awhile before something really good comes out. I've been thinking a certain LPGA player that is almost superstar level would do good for a golf title (Maria Fassi) but would male gamers buy a title with lady golfers being the main focus instead of male pga players. It would be nice but I am not sure. Why LPGA or PGA? Why not world amateurs?

[jurgie]

Let's see what we actually have here. Perfect Parallel now PG was introduced to us in 2012-13. It is comprised of a skeletal interface which looks basicaly the same as it did when it first came on the scene. The only changes are new custom course renditions that have evolved into much improved designs by our very capable designers. By gaming standards this sim would already be outdated. The problem is that there is nothing in this bare interface that would date itself as being 7 or 8 years of age. Any appeal this platform offers is directed at the advid online players and the casual guys that don't mind pushing the ball around with a couple fo buddies at somebody's house while having a couple of brews. Traces of interest is still flickering because we are receiving a steady flow of great designs are interesting to explore. There is definitely a peak interest in the game of golf especially amongst the younger generation. To put it bluntly, we have the course designs that would peak anybodys interest, we just don't have the platform to compliment the renders. What we have is online play, or a weekend with pals if you don't mind looking like identical twins. Or one other option is to set up matches against computer players. I do not recommend this option because it is riddled with bugs that will frustrate you to no end. The 64 thousand dollar question is, why have we reached this stage of no progress. I would guess finances or the lack thereof could be a big reason. You are not going generate enough money by selling pay to play courses to bring this Sim to somekind gameworthy respectability. Donations from members are a possible way to get the ball rolling a little bit. If the developers entertain that angle, they better be prepared to show anual improvements to PG in order to satisfy all donors who naturally want to get a "Bang for thier Buck".

[Dropzone73]

Someone should do a free golf game that supports consoles and PC. A free quality game is always wanted among people so it would be easy to distribute around the world. This would be a Fortnite kind of online/offline golf game where PC/console players could play happily together. Graphics should meet todays criterias better than in Fortnite though.


In that game, there should also be an integration to most/all good enough launch monitors. Also consoles could start to be compatible with LMs or other way around. After game is distributed to the whole world, I'm sure there isn't many LM manufacturers that want to be left outside alone. So they are forced to be part in this integration even if they don't like the idea because of having their own simulation software to sell.


When millions of people in the world have this game, it's easy to start selling some crackers. I mean extra courses naturally but also that little unnecessary staff that many people seem to like. And when the whole world is in the game, there is a whole lot of income streams from crackers and courses.


An option to create courses should also be available for everyone. This could be a paid option as well. Paid option would mean less poor/garbage courses which is a good thing. It would be a platform for beginners and pros. Something that is easy to start with but would include more options to those who want to create more realistic courses (lidar, overlays etc.). Community courses should not be mixed with the game owner's supported courses.


This is probably a very good concept for some big enough game house. If JNPG would have been sold to some game house this could be closer to reality now. Of course Trackman could also consider cooperation with some game house to make their software big, but they see this Trackman VG2 product only as a tool to increase Trackman simulation sales. And I'm afraid that it will not be an everlasting money maker for them.

It's the whole world's gaming population against the rich minority. My strategy would be to give free and then sell optional stuff to millions of people. Not so easy to implement but that's where the cooperation with a big enough game house comes in.

This would be my vision if I would work in a game house. Sad that I don't.

[GolfGuy72_2000]

I think there's always room for a niche market. I don't think we're done with virtual golf titles. I think if someone really got behind one of these swing stick devices that puts a short club into your hands, made it affordable (i.e., $99 or less) to own a complete hardware and software package, offer current generation graphics and at least moderately realistic game play and feedback, they'd have a winner on their hands. What golfer wouldn't want the chance to swing something that's club like in the winter months, and for less than the price or three dozen Pro V1s?

Right now, there is a swing stick device that looks like it could serve such a market, but the cost is somewhat prohibitive, and ridiculously so once you add in a full software package with courses.  There's another cheaper launch monitor solution coming out, but it's tied to specific software, and that software looks worse than Wii Golf. Neither are accessible to mouse, keyboard, or joystick players, either, which limits their market potential.

I like Dropzone73's point about making consoles LM compatible, and also all LMs compatible with the preferred software option. Another niche market is flight simulation. If you buy Flight Simulator X or X-Plane, you can use many third party joysticks and cockpit products. You can even build your own cockpit and connect it with a little engineering work. And there's no additional charge because you're using the game with simulation hardware. That's unfortunately not been the business model with golf simulation. I'm hoping that as new, cheaper LM technology is introduced, more golfers will get on board, more software developers will see the potential, and more great golf games will be developed in the future, to the benefit of mouse, keyboard and joystick players as well as sim users.

[jurgie]

I think there's always room for a niche market. I don't think we're done with virtual golf titles. I think if someone really got behind one of these swing stick devices that puts a short club into your hands, made it affordable (i.e., $99 or less) to own a complete hardware and software package, offer current generation graphics and at least moderately realistic game play and feedback, they'd have a winner on their hands. What golfer wouldn't want the chance to swing something that's club like in the winter months, and for less than the price or three dozen Pro V1s?

Right now, there is a swing stick device that looks like it could serve such a market, but the cost is somewhat prohibitive, and ridiculously so once you add in a full software package with courses.  There's another cheaper launch monitor solution coming out, but it's tied to specific software, and that software looks worse than Wii Golf. Neither are accessible to mouse, keyboard, or joystick players, either, which limits their market potential.

I like Dropzone73's point about making consoles LM compatible, and also all LMs compatible with the preferred software option. Another niche market is flight simulation. If you buy Flight Simulator X or X-Plane, you can use many third party joysticks and cockpit products. You can even build your own cockpit and connect it with a little engineering work. And there's no additional charge because you're using the game with simulation hardware. That's unfortunately not been the business model with golf simulation. I'm hoping that as new, cheaper LM technology is introduced, more golfers will get on board, more software developers will see the potential, and more great golf games will be developed in the future, to the benefit of mouse, keyboard and joystick players as well as sim users.

I totally agree with both your and Dropzone's coments because they make sense. One thing is certain; the dv's either get off the pot or do something to lend somekind of acceptable legitamacy to the PG platform. Seven or eight years should be enough time to instigate a resonable amount of progress  geared towards the development of tne interface within this  Simulation.

[Buck]

Guys, I’m all for what people are saying, but why do people keep calling out Mike & Andrew to take action?

 

From what we know, they appear to have sold the IP of this game and the PP company and no longer are in charge.

i.e.  They can’t “do” anything and PG1 is what it is....great for what it is, but “dead” in terms of anything in the future.

 

Unless someone knows more than that, I don’t see the point in continuing to call on them to do something.  They literally “can’t” (or so it seems).

 

The “game” is over...thank goodness it still at least works and is still playable and expandable by the course designers or we’d be really screwed.

[Greensboronclion]

As a resident of the Grand Strand area in Myrtle Beach I feel and hear that golf in general is in big trouble. We once had 130 courses and now are under 90 and falling and being replaced with condos and stores. Talking with a few club pros I know the biggest problem is that Milenials and the group after them hate golf as they dont like to compete and have to win or lose and thats fact. Take a look at the Coors beer commercial of the four Milenials playing golf one handed and drinking a beer and not caring about the score they shoot and you got a problem. Cost is really not an issue as down here we have the local Passport for 45 bucks a year and I can play a top notch course for 30 to 40 bucks and the courses are still empty. Country Club golf will never die a full death but courses have lowered their innitiation fees drastictly and still have trouble but that is where your Pro players will come from. Public golf courses are not in good shape as most of the play is oldtimers like most of us not the youth that is needed. I still say the Participation Trophy and everybody wins that was taught to our youth killed the sport. As for the video golf world I believe we have seen our last sim.

[jt83]

In Australia it's pretty dire.  We're losing courses to councils and real estate developers at a steady rate.  My local goat track just sold off more land around the 9th green, so the 10th hole will now have some visually appealing cart sheds right beside the tee.  When the real game is struggling, the virtual will follow suit.

 

We need a Nick Kyrgios for golf.  He's not winning Slams, but he is selling tickets.

[jurgie]

A final thought on this topic. I was just browsing through my Links 2k3 and TW08 gamefolders and here is an observation. In both these platforms numerous course enhancements were created by both communities and made available to the players. Neither microsoft who was the last posessor of the Links franchise or EA Sports for TW were consulted in order to create new addons or enhancements if you will, to improve the quality of the platform. What is there to prevent this community from enhancing the PG sim?

[Mulligan]

A final thought on this topic. I was just browsing through my Links 2k3 and TW08 gamefolders and here is an observation. In both these platforms numerous course enhancements were created by both communities and made available to the players. Neither microsoft who was the last posessor of the Links franchise or EA Sports for TW were consulted in order to create new addons or enhancements if you will, to improve the quality of the platform. What is there to prevent this community from enhancing the PG sim?

DRM. In this case, Steam.

[Buck]

DRM. In this case, Steam.

 

 

It is definitely a bummer that there wasn’t a negotiation point in the transaction to ultimately release PG1 free, clear and unencumbered by DRM once VG2 and beyond were out for TM. 
 

I mean at this point it is Dev unsupported LegacyWare anyhow. 
 

There would be the multiplayer concerns of course, but talented coders, developers and additional software could tackle that if it were unencumbered by DRM.

 

I really wish the game had a direct IP connection option

[DoGgs]

I just picked up AO tennis 2 and its great!  well polished and plays lovely.  The game was made by big ant studios who have made a few sports games, they have yet to dabble in golf, be great if they had a stab, they seem to know what they are doing.  May drop them an email as they are super responsive, it might just give them food for thought for the future, apart from that i would say its most def a dead duck.

[JCat04]

I just picked up AO tennis 2 and its great!  well polished and plays lovely.  The game was made by big ant studios who have made a few sports games, they have yet to dabble in golf, be great if they had a stab, they seem to know what they are doing.  May drop them an email as they are super responsive, it might just give them food for thought for the future, apart from that i would say its most def a dead duck.

 

I watched a video of this game in action and it did look impressive.  I'm just not enough of a tennis fan to buy something like it, but I can see that this one stands above the competition.  I'd be all for this team delving into a golf game, but I've seen nothing to indicate that they would be willing to delve into it.  I'll send them an inquiry though... what e-mail address are you using to contact them?

 

BTW, we lost (as in it was deleted) the 'bot' generated "Top Ten Golf Simulators" thread that was created a couple of days ago.  That at least tells me that someone is minding the fort in a moderator capacity 

[DennisHarris]

Things are what they are because of the economics involved in golf.  Green fees, Cart fees and travel expenses are going up faster, and faster.  Myrtle Beach tourism is still going well but extras such as golf and arcades attractions are far less inviting.  Like no more Pavilion on ocean boulevard.  People now tend to concentrate on whole family entertainment not send to kids to the amusement park and Mom and dad go golfing or shopping.  Even Spring Break in Fort "Liquardale" and Panama Beach are smaller and local folks are less tolerant to the goings on.  So less is more now a days.