3 replies to this topic

[J.H.Buchanan]

Well this may really peeve a few folks but it seems that many of the already in use pricing systems out there like credits etc. have shown their drawbacks for example companies having to micromanage each transaction and keep up with usage rates to get free credits etc. Perhaps PP golf should simply charge say $50.00 for the stand alone game for the pc that does not allow online play and then another amount say $30.00 if a person wants the pc version of a course creator to be used with the stand alone pc game that does not allow online play. The Cousre Creator could be an optional add on.  Online play I think needs to be a fixed amount a year for a year of use; therefore, a person will not feel that each month they need to decide if they still want to pay money out to maybe play golf or not. Let them pay each year this way they can take a break for a few months knowing they can come back to it with the concept that they are not loosing any money even though they are not playing.

One thing to consider about PP Golf is that they are people spending their time and talents and money to provide us with this product - they deserve to get paid and to make a profit ANYONE who does not agree with this does not understand the concept of how capitalism provides the best products through competition and by allowing profit to be given to the creators of such. Anyway, this is the fundamental problem with the United States of America right now is that people do not understand Capitalism and that making a proift is not evil but anyway thats for another discussion.

I realize too that there is a post out there regarding credits but this post is more than just kicking around the concept of credits or free credits.

Perhaps too maybe customers who bought the Course Creator for PP - sorry but I forgot the name .... what is it Course Forge or something anyway maybe customers who bought the Course Creator could have the option of sending their Created Course to the PP people and in the event they totally love the course sent to them then the PP people could then sell it to the community for a nominal fee say $5.00 a course as an add on or maybe $2.00 a course if it looks like many people are buying the course.  Ok wait a minute consider this concept. WE NEED TO figure out a way for the PP People to initially make money by the realease of their game and to contiunue to make money so this thing does not die even though many of us, now are convinced, that if it would only be released now if would be the ultimate and stay the ultimate forever. This thing though awesome can die after it is released if it does not grow and grow means they continue to make a profit.

Consider this too. The person who submits a course needs to pay the PP People $5.00 just to look at their course. This is to hopefully minimize the amount of worthless junk the PP people will have to look at (usually a person will not submit junk if they have to pay someone to look at it - it will be a lot less junk than if people could just send in stuff for free - There will be many websites that pop up perhaps with free user created courses) Ok so a customer sends in a course by paying $5.00 for example, PP people adopt the course and submit it to the community. The PP people then pay the person  who submitted the course $5.00 and after 90 days at the sole discretion of the PP People they pay the person an additonal $100. This would likely be done if the PP People determine this course is not on any free sites meaning it is not being distributied to anyone and everyone. Doing it this way would hopefully make the course Unique and the course only available thru PP.  Furthermore, the course remains the property of the person who created it; however, they have no recourse towards PP people in the event they believe it was distributed freely by PP people or in any way missuesd etc blah blah blah by PP people. Now after 3 years the person who created the course gets another $150.00 paid to them by the PP People but the PP People have the sole discretion as to whether or not they make this payment.

Doing all of this above will more than likely cause a person to submit good courses and get paid for them and PP people make money too and PP people are not liable for anything. Also, the after the 3 year concept means the person now can distribute the course freely if it wants to. Doing this above regarding courses will more than likely keep a submitted course only available through PP people for 3 years. If the submitter sells the course online etc whatever what would probably happen is that the PP people would no longer accept courses from this contributor and their name would be mud but in the event everthing goes along normally then they person could be in the archives of PP  and then we could have people that get free upgrades and content because they are in the top 10 of courses submitted etc. All kinds of optons available here.

Ok your turn tell me I'm an idiot and a moron lol.

 

 

[IanD]

Not sure I'm qualified to call you a moron or idiot lol... and discussions should simply remain exactly that.. discussions..

 

I think you're slightly over-thinking several possabilities and directions regarding your post. Firstly, you mention the costing of the PG game and the pricing of the Course Forge. They are going to be two separate entities, so it's probably wiser to develop them separately too.  They can both spin off in various directions and become eventual money spinners if marketed that way. However, I'm not likely to know what the plans are, as there is almost certainly one. You don't create something without knowing some form of business model, even if the figures are best guess.

 

The way you suggest the figures though, may not be to some peoples wishes. If you are seeking to support a game, you would ideally have some basis to understand whether your audience is increasing or not. You need accurate statistics and as much data as possible, so having long term plans for the game may be an option, but shorter ones give a more accurate, here and now data. In saying all of this.. someone more qualified than myself would be better involved and I've no doubt probably is behind the scenes. It isn't something we should concern ourselves with..

 

If the numbers don't pan out when release comes, then the business model will have to change or become shelved.

 

As for the Courses.. well, several games have seen this before and lessons have been learned already. If you know of Mike Jones and his Links connection, you'll understand how his courses were initially released, and then how his work became something people sought after. Supply and demand is a natural progression of any commodity, and I don't doubt for a second, this will be exactly the same situation with the software we're discussing now.

 

Being part of the Links scene myself, I began a site that still exists today, called Links Corner. I didn't do it alone, as I couldn't possibly take on the work needed alone, so another chap called Chris Blanchard helped. Today it hosts the most courses freely available for Links 2001/2003. It also has plenty of reviews, ratings and many other additions to the site encouraging every aspect of the game. All that in one place, started by two people that were supported by the Links community. It wouldn't be the site it is now or was then, without the community. That's very important to understand.

 

I don't doubt there will be some great support on this game, and on various sites likely to spring up when we see the launch happen. As to what they will be, only those supporting those sites will know. If they don't fit the needs you want, you're unlikely to return to them. If they are not supported by those who run them, again, they will not last long.

 

Those thinking they can charge for their courses should not think they can easily make money either. This isn't likely to be something you can give your job up for. If you played Links or TW, you'll all understand how many courses you would part with your money for, and could likely rattle off several names you'd be happy to have designing too. Building a course will not necessarily be something as easy as we think, and if real courses have certain exclusions on whether you can charge for them, you may find yourself limited to constraints you wouldn't normally be, without charging.

 

There is likely a plan... but I wouldn't be that concerned today.

[Kablammo11]

As a possible future golf designer, I would not want to charge others for playing my courses and I never considered this a possible source of revenue. Nevertheless, should one of my works ever find general appreciation and be sought for download by others, the only claim I may have is that it should be recognized as my IP, with my copyright attached to it and mine to do with it what I wish. I agree that a strong community and a fair process of peer review is probably the way to go to weed out the weaker golf courses and I, too, will have to abide by the verdict of the referendum of the many on the quality and playability of my designs.

Having said that, generating additional revenue from this project, especially in troublesome times of DLC, microtransactions and online memberships, is a legitimitate concern. It requires a level of business alchemy which I, quite frankly, do not fully grasp. The only certainty is that somewhere down the line somebody has to foot the bill somehow, and that, whatever the final business model will be, this most likely will be asked of you and me.

[vackillers]

Indeed as Kablammo11 mentioned, charging for courses created on the course forge will just make way too many people mad. I actually was already under the impression this game was a 1 time fee that was bundled with the course forge though. I think in order to make the game successful to a mass audiance the last thing you want to do is start charging for one of the main things that seperate this golf game from everything else which is the course forge. Otherwise people are just simply going to stick with whats out there already, Course Forge is something magnificant, being able to create our own courses?? that is just nuts!!! someting that almost every single golf game made has never been given the option to have and its one of Perfect Golfs major selling points, it must come with the game, it cannot be a seperate product or only the elite die hards will actually only ever buy it.

Times are changing again, and seems like there are a lot of game developers wanting to go the free-to-play route which is actually hated by most gamers because of all the microtransactions that occure in them. Along with pay-to-win scenarios which, do exsist in golf games, just think about it, working yourself to get a great score in a big tournament when your beaten by someone who paid 50$ to get the longest driver in the game? reachers a par 5 hole in almost 1 shot, and your left behind because you didn't buy the same clubs the other person did.  Monetisaztion usually makes the really good idea's games have, bad ones, example..........  Being able to upgrade your golf clubs, and your balls in a game or changing your outfits, adding that RPG element to a game.... but ends up being bad because you have to pay for all that extra stuff.... which usually almost alyways ends up costing more then it would to buy a game with a 1 time 60$ fee.

Not totally against having stuff you buy, but if a game gets broken down to where every single element of the game is another charge you have to pay in order to get them, you wont be all that successfull.... There ARE rare occasions where its worked, very rare, but generally it doesn't.