20 replies to this topic

[Ted_Ball]

Good morning

 

Are there any players out there who would be interested in trialling a simple ELO system?

 

An ELO system is designed for head to head competition. Each player starts with a default rating of, say, 1200 which will increase as they win and decrease as they lose. The amount of points gained or lost is dependent on the rating of the opponent played. More points are gained by beating a much higher ranked player. Less points are gained if the player rankings are closer together.

 

I have found a site that calculates the formula by the players simply entering a win or loss. More information can be found at elorankings.com. The rankings ladder is stored and displayed on that site.

 

Each player would have to sign up to elorankings.com - a quick and easy process.

 

Each match has to be played head to head from the JNPG lobby. I would suggest a 9 hole match play game for a start.

 

For the purposes of this trial players can be of any level and use any swing type. 

 

If I can get at least four players to indicate their interest here I will get the ball rolling and set the required ranking choices. 

[StoneComet]

I'll throw my hat in if you can get 3 more bites. 

[Ted_Ball]

...or even two more.

 

Thanks Stone

[fishwicket79]

Ted_Ball, on 14 Sept 2016 - 8:49 PM, said:

Good morning

Are there any players out there who would be interested in trialling a simple ELO system?

An ELO system is designed for head to head competition. Each player starts with a default rating of, say, 1200 which will increase as they win and decrease as they lose. The amount of points gained or lost is dependent on the rating of the opponent played. More points are gained by beating a much higher ranked player. Less points are gained if the player rankings are closer together.

I have found a site that calculates the formula by the players simply entering a win or loss. More information can be found at elorankings.com. The rankings ladder is stored and displayed on that site.

Each player would have to sign up to elorankings.com - a quick and easy process.

Each match has to be played head to head from the JNPG lobby. I would suggest a 9 hole match play game for a start.

For the purposes of this trial players can be of any level and use any swing type.

If I can get at least four players to indicate their interest here I will get the ball rolling and set the required ranking choices.

this should already be in the game.come on PP get it sorted

[Ted_Ball]

OK. I've been all over the elorankings website and its all simple and care free.

 

I've set up an account for the trial and I'm just waiting for test subjects to succumb to the drugs and become compliant enough to nudge them onto the course.

 

How's this for an idea...

 

I'll sit in the lobby with a game open called elotrial. A 9 hole match - any levels, all welcome. If you accept the match I'll ask if I can enter the result on the ladder. I'll PM you the elorankings account name and password if, in the future, you would like to open your own lobby game and play another ladder game with the result entered by you. Hopefully there will be a snowball effect and eventually there will be five players and someone's dog.

 

The results and ladder ranking changes are updated immediately and each match and the ladder are there to be perused with changes in real time. Consider signing on as someone else for this comp. You can change to another name any time.

 

I'll do a short video of the process of signing up and entering results. It couldn't be easier.

[Ted_Ball]

I had a couple of nibbles then StoneComet came and saved me. (marknibnoble played me but he wasn't aware of the elo. He gave me a pizzling so if I can contact him and get his approval I'll enter the result to his benefit.)

 

I've set the starting ranking points for everyone to 1000. The 'K' spread I set to 80 so after our first match which I won I then moved up to 1040 and Stone to 960 (80 spread max.). After the next match which I also won my points went to 1071 and Stone went to 929. I got 31 points compared to 40 from the first match. So you get less points the lower your opponents ranking (or the bigger the differential to be precise). 

 

No-one has to sign up. I will give my username and password to people who need to enter results. It's simply a matter of putting in the names in order - winner first, unfortunate loser second and the software calculates the points.

 

I'll be in the lobby as much as possible. If you join me let me know that you have seen this thread and I'll add the match to the ladder. There's no pressure. It's a trial. Any level you choose is fine and play it how you like. And if you want to play your own match against a friend, either PM me the result or to get the sign on details to enter the result yourself. Also, you can play any type of round - Matchplay or stroke or whatever - as long as there's a result. I would like to see how the ladder moves after a few matches.

 

You could get easy points off me now. (I'm BAREing all.) I'll be on again in about 8 hours.

[zmax - sim]

Ted,

 

We are in the process of revamping our ladder system from our legacy site(2 years old) and integrating it into our current Onlinegolftour.net site.  It uses the ELO ranking system.  Will run pretty much the same way as most ladders where losers go to the ladder page and report losses to the winners.  Hope to have it up very soon.

[StoneComet]

zmax - sim, on 15 Sept 2016 - 2:24 PM, said:

Ted,

 

We are in the process of revamping our ladder system from our legacy site(2 years old) and integrating it into our current Onlinegolftour.net site.  It uses the ELO ranking system.  Will run pretty much the same way as most ladders where losers go to the ladder page and report losses to the winners.  Hope to have it up very soon.

 

Will it be Head 2 Head only? Might be a dumb question as it seems like that is the only way to play in this format. I enjoy both types of competition. Ones where there is the chance to play solo against other scores and H2H. Would be nice to have a H2H format only with the ELO system. My preference is H@H but sometimes it's nice to put a solo round in to get in a rhythm. H2H play is a different beast because of the starts and stops while playing and the pressure of knowing at least one person is watching live. It's just not a viable way for everyone.

[zmax - sim]

OGT Ladder will be H2H.  You and your opponent(s) will agree on conditions, create game in lobby, then play.  Loser will then login to OGT and report loss to all winners.  You can pretty much use any type of play as a ladder match if all parties agree.  i.e. lobby matches, tour rounds, skin matches, alt shots, etc...

 

Formats allowed:

 

1 vs 1 

1 vs 2

1 vs 3

1 vs 4

2 vs 2

4 vs 4

 

OGT Ladder Tour standings will show your ladder rank, OGT WGR, etc...and even team wins/losses.  

[zmax - sim]

Should also add that we will have daily/nightly KO ladder events also.  How often we do this will depend on the availability of admins.  KO events allow players to quickly rack up wins.

[Ted_Ball]

fishwicket79, on 15 Sept 2016 - 08:44 AM, said:

this should already be in the game.come on PP get it sorted

 

Having finally seen an eloranking website and the formula it would be very easy (he says) to build something similar. The hard part (he says) is getting it integrated into the lobby so that it is running and updating constantly in the lobby somewhere. I think JNPG has said they have no plans for this and encourage third parties.

 

PGLS also has a ladder system. To be honest, if I may, PGLS is confusing and OGT might be rules and level oriented. I don't know. I saw a role for a simple (and dedicated) application for an elo ladder which is all encompassing - allowing all swing types, controllers and levels of play. It would even allow for dodginess however you like to take that. It is self-regulating where if someone seems dodgy or even if someone is too good at the level they choose they might not get challenged.

 

I also like the idea of my elo players to just set up a round in the lobby with a designated name like "elomatch" so that anybody entering the lobby can see an available match. It would mean not having to arrange matches elsewhere a la PGLS and a future OGT ladder. There is nothing wrong with their approach and they are both doing a great job and, I dare say, will be hugely popular. This is a trial. It's an opportunity for a few people to see how it works and how simple it is. 

 

It's up to the guy hosting a match to set the match conditions they want. It's then up to the challenger to accept those conditions or not. The wonderful thing about elo (especially if they are short matchplay rounds) there will always be another match play if there are enough using it and another chance to improve your ranking. There's no dire consequence of a loss or a run of losses. One win against a higher ranking gets you good points to rise again.

 

If I wanted to play a Ted Ball ELO match I would have the eloranking page open in the tray and as soon as the match is concluded enter the result within seconds - ready for your next match. eloranking shows each result, number of wins/losses and win percentage. Simple , easy, and no pressure. I might give the username and password out right here. What the hell?! I can't think of a reason why not unless someone wants to sabotage the site (j/k)

 

This is such a good way to encourage online H2H play and I'm now in PG heaven having found it nearly impossible to walk on to the course and play by myself any more. And where is GB when I need him? I loved the two matches I played with Stone. It was carefree, with no pressure while at the same time being competitive.

 

I'll be in the lobby in about an hour or a bit less for one 9 hole match before work. (I must set JNPG up at work..yeah.) The match will be named elotrial.

 

Oh! And one more thing. This is NOT a BARE competition. I play it BARE but people can play any way they like. Any way.

[zmax - sim]

Ted_Ball, on 15 Sept 2016 - 9:24 PM, said:

I saw a role for a simple (and dedicated) application for an elo ladder which is all encompassing - allowing all swing types, controllers and levels of play. It would even allow for dodginess however you like to take that. It is self-regulating where if someone seems dodgy or even if someone is too good at the level they choose they might not get challenged.

 

 

You've just described the OGT ladder system.   It's a very simple system.  You and your opponent(s) agree on the course, settings, level, etc...  We only care about the reporting.

[Ted_Ball]

Yeah, a great way to play.

[Ted_Ball]

OK. I'm going in to the lobby now. I've got a book with me. It's alright.

[Ted_Ball]

I managed to play and get another golfer interested this morning and he was the benificiary of my high points tally when he gave me another pizzling.

 

 

The account name / username / ladder name is elo_trial_001 and the password is rubbish001 at the elorankings.com website.

 

 

If you are playing a round with a friend or anyone else feel free to enter your result under the "CONTROLS" page button and watch as your rankings are calculated.

 

 

[Reynhardt_p2]

Hey there

Sounds good to me, was just wondering what the point of a ranking system is when different levels can play one another? Wouldn't it motivate better players to play at an easier setting just to get a higher ranking?

[Tigers Agent]

Reynhardt_p2, on 16 Sept 2016 - 07:50 AM, said:

Hey there

Sounds good to me, was just wondering what the point of a ranking system is when different levels can play one another? Wouldn't it motivate better players to play at an easier setting just to get a higher ranking?

How can you say it "sounds good" and question the ranking system? the motivation should be for the lower level players to challenge

the higher levels.

[Ted_Ball]

If there were no rules in TBELO* (which there aren't) I would be interested to see if a very good player would even consider playing at Beginner level. I want to meet that player. 

 

Having said that, I encourage participants to do whatever it takes to jag a win. If I were having a run of outs I would play my next matches to my advantage. This is a cut-throat world kitty kats. 

 

*Ted Ball's ELO

[Ted_Ball]

Let's talk about recording results.

 

I would let the winner record the results. The loser doesn't give a shit.

[Reynhardt_p2]

What I'm saying is, it sounds like a lot of fun, but was wondering whether there shouldn't be more incentive for guys using "easier" settings to play guys using " harder" settings. From what I understand, you'll get more points by beating a guy that is higher ranked than you (makes sense) but maybe there should also be some extra points on offer when you beat a guy playing on a more difficult setting. Just a thought.