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#1 ✠ davef ✠

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 02:34 PM

hi all the reason im here is over at PGLS we have a weekly skills tourney and we use courses

that the designers have took the time to put these in, which to be honest are few and far between

out of the 400+ courses there are only around 50 i have been able to find that had these tees that are acceptable

to use in the skills points mode CTP tourneys. along with another 30 or so that can not be used due to the distance of the pins as it is a CTP format. i have been going through courses since back in 2017 and just picked up doing it again last week i only have maybe the last 30 courses left to do. the reason im here posting is i don't believe some of the designers understand how to put these tees in. in the points challenge you need to be able to reach the green with 1 shot. some of the courses i have had to remove from the courses list have 260 to 350 yrd shots out of the roughs and off the fairway that there is just no way to hit the greens heck yesterday i even found a 320yrd shot out of a pot bunker.

what we are looking for in the courses we use is not all long shots but a good mixture of shots that makes a golfer use all shot types so a mixture of both long mid  and short shots are needed in these. it would be great if somemore of the designer would install these tees in their courses. here is a list of the approved courses so far in this link. if would sure be nice to see this list grow.

i'm not sure but i think maybe over at OGT they might also do skills tourneys so you would really be helping out both the tourney sites and also representing your talents in these tourneys as well as the others.

thanks for the time folks here is that list of courses we use in case any of you

design folks would like to look to get any ideas.

https://pgls.golflad...php?f=61&t=1747

 

thanks again


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#2 jspirate

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 03:58 PM

They do something similar at OGT, but its different.  As a designer, you have to decide which challenge you are setting up for.  I haven't played over at OGT for more than a year, but I prefer their format and wish PGLS would adopt it, but I don't see that happening.

 

Anyway, I will probably change my design philosophy and make CTP challenge tees in my current WIP (if I ever get enough time to finish it).  Unless PGLS decides to add another event...


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#3 ✠ davef ✠

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 04:37 PM

hi JS Bradford made it ok, i was on Ironwood this morning and ran across some long stuff so it did not make the list

if you have been reading the forums at PGLS i requested adding a skills distance tourney where these one's with the longs shots could be used but not enough back up or should i say more people requesting so it was written off. thanks for considering the skills points tourney for you WIP. as for PGLS following anything they got going on at OGT i just don't see that happening. if OGT runs a skills distance tourney then that is more then likely why PGLS has passed on it.

 

thanks for the time


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#4 M Rose

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 10:35 PM

Looks like most of mine are too long or don't quite work, according to that thread. Will have to go back through some of them.

It's true that I generally don't spend as much time on them as I should, but I've also never received any feedback about it.

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#5 ✠ davef ✠

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 12:56 AM

Looks like most of mine are too long or don't quite work, according to that thread. Will have to go back through some of them.

It's true that I generally don't spend as much time on them as I should, but I've also never received any feedback about it

very sorry to inform you, but you are correct i have looked at most of your courses and i have had to

leave them off the list. it is really to bad because you are one of the top designers here, rather then redo all and then having to get everyone to redownload, how bout your future creations get the tees we need for the points challenge. if we ever get into the distance challenge i would put your courses at the top of the list.


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#6 andrewjjones43#

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 05:38 AM

Am I correct in thinking that you need the challenge tees to be “par 3s” or do you need some that are say a 30yard flop over a bunker or even a green side bunker mixed with anything up to say 230yards. Do you need some to be from semi rough and rough too?

#7 M Rose

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 06:38 AM

Are you going by scorecard yardages? Because those are actually very unreliable when determining the playability of challenge tees.

 

I know there are cases on my courses where the scorecard yardage is a ridiculous number; like it will be 280 yards but the actual shot to the green will be much less; this is because in some cases it measures from the challenge tee to the shot point and then the shot point to the hole and sometimes the shot point will actually be behind the challenge tee. So that produces some measurements that are not accurate.


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Plainfield CC 
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The Aces Club Par 3 · Preserve at Standley Lake · Riverside · Rock River Bluffs · Crooked Stick
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#8 Stingreye

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 06:50 AM

South Hills should have two sets of tees that would work. The challenge tees and the “wedge/kids” tees I setup. I think they all are short enough.

Pauite Is still beta but getting close to releasing an update. It will have challenge tees if it does not already.

LA Country club I don’t remember but I am going back and adding 3d grass when I am done with Pauite, so if it won’t work, let me knownand I can update it.

#9 Perculator

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 09:14 AM

Glad this is getting some attention, thanks guys.

 

Perc


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#10 ✠ davef ✠

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 10:33 AM

Are you going by scorecard yardages? Because those are actually very unreliable when determining the playability of challenge tees.

 

I know there are cases on my courses where the scorecard yardage is a ridiculous number; like it will be 280 yards but the actual shot to the green will be much less; this is because in some cases it measures from the challenge tee to the shot point and then the shot point to the hole and sometimes the shot point will actually be behind the challenge tee. So that produces some measurements that are not accurate.

nope i play them all when i test them


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#11 ✠ davef ✠

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 10:34 AM

South Hills should have two sets of tees that would work. The challenge tees and the “wedge/kids” tees I setup. I think they all are short enough.

Pauite Is still beta but getting close to releasing an update. It will have challenge tees if it does not already.

LA Country club I don’t remember but I am going back and adding 3d grass when I am done with Pauite, so if it won’t work, let me knownand I can update it.

no challenge tees on Pauite, testing S Hills now, as for using any other tees then what is called the Challenge tees will not work afraid of causing confusion with the tourney setters so im going to pass on using the kids tees. as for south hills im finding a lot of shots with trees in the way,im able to make these shots but it takes some very tough shots to make them that the avg player will have a hard time with. the goal here is to make challenging shots but makable by the majority of players.

you seem to like the trees in the way cool on some but not all number 5 on s hills takes a aim to the right of the tree and a sharp left to clear the tree and make the green with the wrong wind it would not be makeable. wind is a factor that has to though about when setting challenge tees i have ask the setter of this tourney at PGLS to not use over strong breeze on these tourneys but it does not mean he will follow that. hate to say it but with all the tree shots im going to have to leave S Hills off the list as 7 can't be played just to many tree shots all together. look at some on the list i have cleared and it will give you a better idea of what we need to include the course in this tourney.

thanks for the time though


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#12 ✠ davef ✠

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 10:40 AM

Am I correct in thinking that you need the challenge tees to be “par 3s” or do you need some that are say a 30yard flop over a bunker or even a green side bunker mixed with anything up to say 230yards. Do you need some to be from semi rough and rough too?

andrew your first course W Lancashire made the list and the challenge tees are set up fine in that one


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#13 ✠ davef ✠

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 11:23 AM

An open offer to any of the designers if you need some input just PM me here

if you would like me to take a look at your challenge tees prior to release just PM me with a link to your course and i will test them for you to

all i got is time and i don't mind spending it helping you fella's out with this.


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#14 andrewjjones43#

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 11:30 AM

Sorry Dave. Just to clarify, do you want a mix of shots like bunkers and rough shots or 18 Par 3s with Challenge tees set up on the fairways at a variety of hole lengths?
I’m just about to put Royal Liverpool out so I’ll include a set of tees to your required spec.
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#15 zmax - sim

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 11:50 AM

Sorry Dave. Just to clarify, do you want a mix of shots like bunkers and rough shots or 18 Par 3s with Challenge tees set up on the fairways at a variety of hole lengths?
I’m just about to put Royal Liverpool out so I’ll include a set of tees to your required spec.


For OGT, both sets would be great. You can use foward tees for the 18 hole par 3s, then Challenge tees for the short fun shots from rough, bunkers, etc.. The 18 hole par 3s from 200 or less are great for our 1 shot CTPs.


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#16 Stingreye

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 03:54 PM

no challenge tees on Pauite, testing S Hills now, as for using any other tees then what is called the Challenge tees will not work afraid of causing confusion with the tourney setters so im going to pass on using the kids tees. as for south hills im finding a lot of shots with trees in the way,im able to make these shots but it takes some very tough shots to make them that the avg player will have a hard time with. the goal here is to make challenging shots but makable by the majority of players.

you seem to like the trees in the way cool on some but not all number 5 on s hills takes a aim to the right of the tree and a sharp left to clear the tree and make the green with the wrong wind it would not be makeable. wind is a factor that has to though about when setting challenge tees i have ask the setter of this tourney at PGLS to not use over strong breeze on these tourneys but it does not mean he will follow that. hate to say it but with all the tree shots im going to have to leave S Hills off the list as 7 can't be played just to many tree shots all together. look at some on the list i have cleared and it will give you a better idea of what we need to include the course in this tourney.

thanks for the time though

 

Sliceapotamos worked with me on those challenge tees (he tests and review them) but I think OGT might use a different guidelines for the challenge tees.  They wanted "challenging" shots that you can hit the green in one shot.  They also asked if they could be unique.  Are the formats you are running different than theirs?  Hopefully, Slice will chime in and we can come up with something that pleases both groups.  I don't mind changing but I also don't want to change it without Slice because he actually reviewed each tee and had me get rid of some that were impossible to hold the green.   If it weren't for Slice, I doubt many courses would even have challenge tees because he is one of the few asking during beta testing.

I think I remember adding them to LACC, but my guess is that they are similar to SHCC.  I will try to add some to Pauite soon as I am in the final stages there.



#17 ✠ davef ✠

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 04:41 PM

stinger we play the same way. but im not going to tell you how to do your course, it is yours as i tested it this morning

i had a couple of issues, the trees need figured on every shot i can figure em, but im different then your avg player some of the ones i tested

just would not work out for the PGLS. it is fine for you to do what others tell ya to but i will still pass on S Hills we have plenty of other courses to pick from. i just went back again on hole 4  6mph wind to right i could not fade that shot on to the green, on hole 7 i could not get over nor through the trees directly in front of the shot, maybe a punch could get you there but that would be by lucky if you could get there that away.

we are looking for courses with tees where you can get to the hole, we are really not looking for tees that are put in to defeat, but will allow the shot. has this course been used in a tourney at OGT? if so get ahold of the data and see just how those 2 holes worked out. as for going any further i do this as a volunteer so between these 2 holes i stopped. wind does have a factor on these tees and needs to be thought about when putting them in. 

and BTW The LA CC did make it on to the list

nice job on those tees


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#18 Stingreye

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 04:57 PM

stinger we play the same way. but im not going to tell you how to do your course, it is yours as i tested it this morning

i had a couple of issues, the trees need figured on every shot i can figure em, but im different then your avg player some of the ones i tested

just would not work out for the PGLS. it is fine for you to do what others tell ya to but i will still pass on S Hills we have plenty of other courses to pick from. i just went back again on hole 4  6mph wind to right i could not fade that shot on to the green, on hole 7 i could not get over nor through the trees directly in front of the shot, maybe a punch could get you there but that would be by lucky if you could get there that away.

we are looking for courses with tees where you can get to the hole, we are really not looking for tees that are put in to defeat, but will allow the shot. has this course been used in a tourney at OGT? if so get ahold of the data and see just how those 2 holes worked out. as for going any further i do this as a volunteer so between these 2 holes i stopped. wind does have a factor on these tees and needs to be thought about when putting them in. 

and BTW The LA CC did make it on to the list

nice job on those tees

Unfortunately, SHCC is not in a position to make simple tee updates.  I was experimenting and screwed up some stuff.  I can update SHCC after checking with Slice.  He spent alot of time testing south hills in general and on the challenge tees so I didn't want to change it without checking with him.  He may have approved the tees because the first couple version were even more brutal I think  :blink:   It will be some time before I get to that.  SHCC is my local course no one has ever heard of so I doubt it gets much play anyways.  

Glad to hear LACC challenge tees are ok. 



#19 Sliceapottomus

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 06:35 PM

Disclaimer - Not an admin at ogt anymore so I am only speaking as a member of tourney site, avid golfer, and pc player. All one has to do is actually take the time to play Chicago oaks and or Illinois done by PG... Those have always been what I would think are great examples of good challenge tee placements.... Speaking of reaching in 1 shot, sure that would be the desirable but does not mean they have to be especially on a par 5. Every has to play from same spot and with the same wind if set up in tournament site. If you have a 200 yard shot in the rough against the wind and you have a tucked pin you may want to think how can I get up and down in 3 for what is an eagle. One may want to try to get it on the green in 1 for the 2, but if not hit just right might end up with a 4. On the other hand  hitting an iron out of the rough as a lay up would  increase chances of getting it close for an assured 3... I think that it is all really up to the designer to create challenge tees how they see fit and if it does not fit a tourney sites requirements then that site does not have to use them. As far as the difficulty of the placement of tees, I never liked any that had 18 easy wedge shots to the green. i also never liked 18 totally difficult shots that were blocked or had a very slim chance of getting to the green. I have always believed the best  challenge tee sets were the ones that had a good variety of placements using all clubs in the bag and all different shot types. I even applaud the use of par threes with a challenge tee that was on the putting green. check out some of K11's challenge tees. If you are looking for an easy challenge,  then set up everything for the kids tees and have a blast hitting approach shots to the green and putt for 2 every shot then great. If you like a "CHALLENGE", see what I did there?, Then you can make golfer think about the shot he has to play to give him/her the best chance for an up and down. I personally like when you have to  bend the ball around obstructions but would not want that on all 18. I have played south hills in a challenge tourney more than once or twice and found it to be fine. It may have leaned a bit on the difficult side of the spectrum but definitely should not be left out of any ones list that likes the "Challenge" mop


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#20 jspirate

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 07:10 PM

 Speaking of reaching in 1 shot, sure that would be the desirable but does not mean they have to be especially on a par 5.

 

PGLS does closest to the pin, so the par of the hole doesn't matter.  Its not nearly as fun as challenge tees, but thats what they do.  In their event, the pin (or at least the green) should be reachable in 1 shot.  The penalty for not hitting the green is steep!

 

I believe the PP courses were set up for challenge tees like OGT does, not like PGLS' closest to the pin... so, people might get confused when looking at those? Not sure tho...


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