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#1 shimonko

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 12:50 AM

Just a thread on terrain importing rather than continue to be off-topic in Daz's thread. Posts below extracted from that thread. Hoping the authors are fine with that.
 

I have two fictional designs mapped out and drawn to scale on paper. One I actually posted to Linkscorner about 8 months ago just to gain feedback and whether I should attempt in APCD but I decided against it because so much depended on using the real plot of land I had chosen and it's true elevations. This for me was always tricky in APCD and honestly what I'm looking forward to most in CF. For me the terrain importer is going to be a make or break tool because I personally find it fascinating to create a fictional course on an already existing piece of land with real world issues like sharp elevation, ledge, signature trees, and water issues.

I am also very proficient in Photoshop which is great, and have tried doing height maps and course maps and such in there.

I don't see the terrain importer as being the issue for what you want, rather the availability of fine enough elevation detail without the course being locally mapped for elevation.
I thought I'd start becoming familiar with Unity tonight by bringing my local course into it via Bing Maps. I couldn't find it documented how often Bing sampled elevation, but it seems like every 30m is pretty typical in unpopulated areas (this is a unpopulated country area in Australia).
So I sampled elevation every 30m. I was thinking later every 15m might have been optimal, but I don't think the difference would be earth shattering.
You can see from below it's good enough to get the general lay of the land, but I'm going to miss those smaller swales and green undulations.
 
msxavw4.png


Nice work, shimonko..
 
I have gotten many Dems from the USGS site for REAL Courses in the past and we were only able to use Google Earth which IMO never had as good a resolution as Bing Maps. So this is a plus..
 
However, we never really could see undulations on the greens and fairways and you can't with Bing Maps either.   Mostly what the Terrain Importer(that was developed by the Tiger Woods community) gave you was the  rough elevations and then you do the terrain work for each hole from what you can see in photos etc. if there available.. Shape the greens, the bunkers, the fairways etc yourself.
 
Of course, this is a all new system so maybe we will be able to get better Dems, that would sure save a lot of work..  So that when you import the Dem into Unity, it may have the greens as there are on the course, without having to shape/add undulations or elevations   to much, yourself...
 
We always had to flatten this, smooth that, raise this and so on.. Which was a fun part of designing also.. So I hope it isn't all automatic..lol
 
And since the USGS site has changed how you get Dems, I don't know... Not sure if we will still have to use them to get the elevations or not, if we do, we can email them and they will tell us how to get Dems now, as they have told me before but it was kind of complicated for me.. Now the Dems come in many chunks, not just 1, like they used to. But it is doable.
 
I am impressed though, from what you have accomplished so far... :)
Looking forward to all this...
 
Hope I didn't go to far off course/thread...


USGS now has downloads available for much of the US at 3m or 10m intervals. Terrain importer will take these files overhead and elevation and give u a height map and ortho rectified image that aligns to it. Many of the courses we have built have come from free 1m data.


Nice. I guess I can't be too disappointed by Australia's (2011!) 30m data as it seems most other places in the world only have 90m data.



#2 shimonko

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 01:46 AM

Of course, this is a all new system so maybe we will be able to get better Dems, that would sure save a lot of work..  So that when you import the Dem into Unity, it may have the greens as there are on the course, without having to shape/add undulations or elevations   to much, yourself...


 
The 1m data Andrew speaks of would definitely help. I'm amazed to hear that was free data.
 
Reading further, it seems like the 30m data I got from Bing came from the SRTM (Shuttle RADAR topography mission), which did 30m data for the US and Australia, 90m elsewhere. But being RADAR, trees give wrong values so they subtract estimated tree heights they get from vegetation maps.
 
The stated vertical accuracy of SRTM is 16m, but I couldn't find if that's a relative or absolute accuracy. It's no big deal if my 12th green is 650m above sea level or 666m, but being 2m above the tee or 18m is. 
 
But I also read that the TanDEM-X mission is scouring the world reading elevations at least every 12m with an accuracy of 2m, and that data is being made available from 2014 which will help for courses outside the US that aren't professionally mapped.
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#3 shimonko

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 06:21 AM

We always had to flatten this, smooth that, raise this and so on.. Which was a fun part of designing also.. So I hope it isn't all automatic..lol


 
I suspect even if topmost course fidelity isn't the goal, there'll be still plenty to do to make it fun.

I guess for instance water hazards will need to be dug out as the DEMs won't pierce through the water. Wonder if Unity water caters for color variation depending on water depth?  Might have to have a play.

#4 Unique

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 11:40 AM

G'day Mate,

Any links to Aussie elevation data that you can share would be nice.

Cheers

 

Peter



#5 shimonko

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 01:32 PM

I just used the elevation data from Bing Maps, however you'll need to create an api key first to get it.

I found our equivalent of the USGS today which also offer 30m (or 1 arc sec) data  here, but I've had to apply for an account to get it and haven't heard back yet. I suspect their data is the same as Bing's, but it would be nice to get the uninterpolated samples.


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#6 shimonko

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 04:49 AM

By the way, Unique, I never heard got a response from our governmental mapping body. But as you'll know, it's rare a government site actually works here.
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#7 Lukas

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 09:26 AM

By the way, Unique, I never heard got a response from our governmental mapping body. But as you'll know, it's rare a government site actually works here.

I'm in Australia and requested data a few months back from Geoscience Australia and haven't received a response either. I guess the Bing data will have to do.



#8 Lance

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 12:40 AM

nvm


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#9 shimonko

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 10:17 AM

I went back to the site after your post and I see that despite it saying new users need to register to get data, the 30m data allowed me to just submit details upon downloading instead of waiting for them to create and account. Some other data didn't even require the details.

 

I think you mean 'downsampled from 30m to 90m' right?

 

The 30m data on this site is SRTM data (well modified with removal of vegetation and smoothed), so I think it's the same elevation data as Bing and Google Maps use. I tend to recall reading 30m SRTM was only done for the US and Australia, the rest of the world got 90m. 






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