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Possible CF issue. Ridges/tears near certain holes.


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#1 bortimus

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 04:12 PM

There might be an issue with a ridge or tear appearing on the green around some difficult pins.  They are typically deep enough to cause a noticeable effect on the putt. 

Designers can't see any mesh changes or unevenness near the holes in their work.  These ridges don't appear on the green when other pins on the green are selected.

I've seen this happen a few times during beta testing at OGT.  It seems to happen when CF cuts the hole into the green.  I don't think this is a smoothing issue.  These ridges look almost exactly the same every time they appear on different courses.  

 

Lo and behold, it appears on the newest official course.  

 

Here's the difficult pin (pin 0) on Royal Troon hole 9:

GI3oRgh.jpg

 

hWQwLl2.jpg


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#2 Dazmaniac

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 04:18 PM

Definitely something CF needs to help identify these sometimes hard to see ledges.

I it was a driving game, maybe not a major issue, but as JNPGis is golf, this is definitely a show stopper and not something we would expect to see in user made courses, never mind DLC courses.
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#3 bortimus

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 04:32 PM

Daz, I don't think it's a designer issue. When the course designers check these spots in their work, there's no visible tear or abnormality on their end. I think it's happening when the game cuts the hole into the green.

I probably should have posted this in the bug reporting section.

#4 tlvx

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 04:34 PM

I've been reporting these issues for several months now. The amount of jagged creases on greens, and misplaced straight lines - particularly near hole locations - is a massive, game-breaking issue.

 

One of the recent bug report topics was locked, apparently because someone's feelings got hurt. http://www.perfectpa...hole-locations/

 

When it comes to game-breaking issues; I don't understand why we can't just acknowledge the issues, and work towards fixes... instead of trying to evaluate whether the bug reports themselves are friendly enough in nature.



#5 Kablammo11

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 04:49 PM

Daz, I don't think it's a designer issue. When the course designers check these spots in their work, there's no visible tear or abnormality on their end. I think it's happening when the game cuts the hole into the green.

I probably should have posted this in the bug reporting section.

 

Having been the recipient of your observations several times, bortimus, I can confirm that these ridges do not show up in Unity and CF on any of the spots that have been indicated. I went and looked a dozen or so times. If instructed by our overlords to do something, anything, differently with my builds to prevent these, I will gladly comply. 

Absent such directives - and seeing as these pesky occurrences are being reported by a very small minority of users - I can, alas,  for now only conclude that we are talking either about a game-side or a user-side problem or both. Sorry about that.

 

Nevertheless, this is a problem worth looking into and getting rid of asap, imo. Big designer thread bump!

Should anybody else have encountered these, please report it here now - and perhaps also post your specs, graphics drivers etc...


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#6 M Rose

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 04:51 PM

These *are* a problem. Unfortunately the only way to find them is to have them show up in the game when you are putting, and even then they only show up if you are on a certain angle. In Course Forge they don't show up at all.

Blackwolf had about four I had to get rid of before I put it out; there is still a borderline one on one hole (#11 I think)

It seems like you can smooth something on 100% brush strength several times and still get a crease.

It's so hard for every pin position to be thoroughly tested because the game only lets you select difficulty levels and not specific placements to test, and even displaying all pins in practice mode, while useful, still forces you to putt at only one.

So pin testing is more tedious than it was in Links, and things like this slip through the cracks more often.

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#7 bortimus

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 04:56 PM

Tlvx, I'm talking about a specific kind of occurance that the designer can't see on their end, therefore can't fix.

It's not about the general quality of smoothing green contours that the designer has control over or pin placements that you find to be unrealistic.

Unless the things you noticed were the tears that I mentioned, these are two completely separate issues.

#8 bortimus

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 04:57 PM

Above reply meant for tlvx. Forgot to quote

#9 tlvx

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 05:05 PM

Tlvx, I'm talking about a specific kind of occurance that the designer can't see on their end, therefore can't fix.

It's not about the general quality of smoothing green contours that the designer has control over or pin placements that you find to be unrealistic.

Unless the things you noticed were the tears that I mentioned, these are two completely separate issues.

 

The developers themselves have placed blame on the course designers, on multiple occasions.

http://www.perfectpa...tions/?p=101469
http://www.perfectpa...tions/?p=101503

 

I'm not entirely sure what the cause of these green rifts is; but, I would certainly expect the course designer program to have a better error-checking process for green smoothness.



#10 RobC

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 05:06 PM

I haven't seen this on any course I have made or played to be fair



#11 tlvx

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 05:12 PM

Here's a list of reports I've made - in part - regarding imperfections in the greens:

http://www.perfectpa...d-green-issues/
http://www.perfectpa...ch-green-issue/
http://www.perfectpa...hole-locations/
http://www.perfectpa...5370-abbotsley/
http://www.perfectpa...uality-control/
http://www.perfectpa...3rd-green-tear/
http://www.perfectpa...y-gulch-17-pin/
http://www.perfectpa...even-tee-boxes/

 

The Uneven Tee Boxes issue also goes to show that this isn't just a Green issue. The issue of emergent jagged creases, and protruding geometric shapes, is happening all over golf courses.

 

I'm sure it would have been easier if I recorded some videos, or took screenshots, every time I have encountered a rift in the surface of a green. But, I've had to turn Steam Overlay off, because it crashes games, itself.



#12 bortimus

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 05:14 PM

RobC, I've only seen this thing happen a handful of times. Mostly it's just dumb luck that I see it or hit the ridge when putting.

So far it's been the same long thin tear and only happening on difficult pins.

#13 M Rose

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 06:43 PM

Are you guys finding that it affects the putt? In my experience I've seen some putts kind of wobble which may or may not be a result of this phenomenon.

I'm pretty vigilant with uneven tees, to the point that I will purposely draw them larger than I need them to be, and then shrink after smoothing to lessen the crowning effect that CF likes to produce.

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#14 bortimus

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 07:27 PM

Are you guys finding that it affects the putt? In my experience I've seen some putts kind of wobble which may or may not be a result of this phenomenon.

I'm pretty vigilant with uneven tees, to the point that I will purposely draw them larger than I need them to be, and then shrink after smoothing to lessen the crowning effect that CF likes to produce.

Depends on the severity of the ridge, but yes I find they do affect putts.  Some worse than others.  The one on Troon isn't that bad but the ball does get knocked offline if you are putting from certain positions.

 

Apologies to K11 for the next pic, but this isn't his fault.  He can't fix it and he can't see it on his end to do anything about it.    

Just to show how severe the ridges can get.  A very sharp angled cut on the green.

SxCwfoz.jpg

 

Hopefully the devs will look into this.  



#15 chrismess13

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 07:43 PM

Add me to the list of those effected by this. Very disappointing when it throws your putt offline. Sorry to the designers I cursed for not testing their greens properly.



#16 garynorman

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 09:10 PM

If these 'tears' are only showing up when specific pins are set, could it be the result on the mesh of the displacement caused by the 'planting' of the hole in-game?  It might explain why the designers aren't picking it up... 



#17 Sliceapottomus

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 09:14 PM

all the more reason ogt has guys willing to put the time in to test corectly. and just goes to show we can be even more dilligent. if every1 put the effort that bortimus does we would catch 99 % of these things. In the past when i have found troughs or ridges the designers have been able to fix them... and they have been appreciative and willing,,,,


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#18 bortimus

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 09:47 PM

Slice, it seems like moving the hole placement a little might be one "solution". One designer did this and the crease went away. It's not really a good solution though if no one knows what's causing it.

In regards to if it's a user-side side/game-side problem...
I can confirm that at least one of the pins mentioned by tlvx earlier matches this issue.

#19 Kablammo11

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Posted 15 July 2016 - 08:09 AM

I just moved all the difficult pins on Aroha Beta a little, bortimus. The update will be out tomorrow (if OGT manages to return online somehow). Let me know if it helped. 

If it works for you, it may not be a good solution, but at least it would be a solution. As in: the only one. And it wouldn't be the first time that designers have to work overtime for all the things that go bonk in the game.


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#20 wim1234

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Posted 15 July 2016 - 10:28 AM

Add me to the list of those effected by this. Very disappointing when it throws your putt offline. Sorry to the designers I cursed for not testing their greens properly.

i dont see this solely as a designersproblem, it might be a combination of desinging and how pg handles it. ( i am pretty certain of this)

i even seen it on a deafult course.

courses that ran great in the past have sprouted some probs in latest updates.  luckily not too many, but it happens.






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