16 replies to this topic

[J.H.Buchanan]

I'm making a par 5 the overhead view of the completed hole - (well the dimensions are completed) show this:

 

 

 

Part of the hole is cut off --  any way to center the view over the hole or maybe it is ... 

 

 

 

 

Uh, I'm going to add water trees and traps so you can't just easily bang it onto the green .... unless you want to "go for it" !!

 

[Great_White_Shark]

Ive had the same prob especially with winding holes....i've had to either straighten the fairway a little or change tee positions so it lines up..would be good to know if the map can be resized..

[Crow357]

The overhead draws the image with the ball at the center bottom and the pin center top.  So, if there's an extreme dogleg, it won't show up.  Best to use the zoom key from the tee when these situations are encountered.

[MimicPS]

I'd actually like to see the overhead become a course guide format presentation, showing yardages to certain aspects, much like this.

 

Note also, the elusive OOB being a visible aspect. 

 

[DPRoberts]

I am assuming you already know you can interactively click in the overhead and get distances?

They could maybe make a different tab that you click such as a yardage book image for each hole. However, it would always require some user input on the creation side to define those points.

My guess is most designers would opt out when the interactive overhead is easier and already available. There's already enough grumbling for shot points and flybys. Long term though, I wonder if your idea might be beneficial for the AI player.

[Kablammo11]

The current overhead is produced by an in-game camera that automatically places itself in the middle between player position and the hole - with some room to spare on either end. Bendy holes, strong doglegs, cannot but protrude outside of the top view frame, which has a fixed ratio.

I like the image posted by MimicPS a lot, because it is a schematic, not a live capture. It does not bother with showing too much reality, just a necessary selection, and exaggerates the bunker lips to add a bit of educational drama. It's a really beautiful work of art, by the way, which instantly gets my golf juices flowing. It would be awesome to have these - however, that's exactly the problem: Such a masterpiece cannot be created procedurally by the game, but would need to be designed as an illustration. By the designer. For each hole.

And that's just not on, it would require advanced Photoshop skills, massive extra work and still never look as good as this example of a professional illustration.

The current overview situation feels, eh, a bit unsatisfactory, considering that fly-bys are not really enlightening either, taking too long and most often do not convey essential insights into course management.

 

So, to stay positive, I've go an idea: How about a keyboard hot key, let's say, the letter "T", for top - which, once pressed, reveals a full frame overview, on which golfers can go and measure distances and follow the entire length of the even most eccentric fairways? And yes, this view should include OOB lines (which do exist in CF, so these should be included). There is no need to see all the rest while players study the hole layout, so, again: Go full frame for the map, no need to keep it so small.

There even could be a functionality included within CF for designers to set the initial top view, making sure that it is framed properly. So: Press T, get a decent map and educate yourself, press T again to return to the main screen, play.

Yup, I forgot about console controllers. Well, I'm sure some solution can be found for these input devices as well.

[MimicPS]

I am not saying have one that zooms in with play.... simply the course guide as shown. Whether it is used for aiming or not would be the one 'interaction', and whilst this is set at an oblique angle, you could as easily produce one with a direct overhead view.

 

What it would do is at least provide all players, incliding Tour Pros, with the official markers and distances, taking some of the guesswork out of the main view aim.

 

It would be far too unpopular for me to say that the top view is the one aiming method that in no way chimes with this being a sim... so I will keep my opinion on that brief.

 

I can see it being a great deal of work to produce something such as shown, but I have seen Hole intro screens in Links which consisted of no more than a crayon outline of the hole and fairway, with a hand-drawn note of bunker placements, very much like a caddie notes. It is as fancy or as plain as one would want to make, and with a free cam you can even place yourself at the exact spot to get the capture you need to produce it.

 

I like your idea very much K11... simple and elegant in getting around the limits of the current window.

[Kablammo11]

Thanks, Mimic. I reacted to your image and overlooked the main question asked by the OP, sorry:

 

No. Absolutely no way to manipulate the overhead view. It's completely out of the hands of the designer.

(Not sure if there is a JNPG console setting for it, though)

 

Recommendation: Stand by your vision of a golf hole, no matter what. If it doesn't fit the overhead frame, well, that's just too bad - it's not your screwup.

[J.H.Buchanan]

The current overhead is produced by an in-game camera that automatically places itself in the middle between player position and the hole - with some room to spare on either end. Bendy holes, strong doglegs, cannot but protrude outside of the top view frame, which has a fixed ratio.

I like the image posted by MimicPS a lot, because it is a schematic, not a live capture. It does not bother with showing too much reality, just a necessary selection, and exaggerates the bunker lips to add a bit of educational drama. It's a really beautiful work of art, by the way, which instantly gets my golf juices flowing. It would be awesome to have these - however, that's exactly the problem: Such a masterpiece cannot be created procedurally by the game, but would need to be designed as an illustration. By the designer. For each hole.

And that's just not on, it would require advanced Photoshop skills, massive extra work and still never look as good as this example of a professional illustration.

The current overview situation feels, eh, a bit unsatisfactory, considering that fly-bys are not really enlightening either, taking too long and most often do not convey essential insights into course management.

 

So, to stay positive, I've go an idea: How about a keyboard hot key, let's say, the letter "T", for top - which, once pressed, reveals a full frame overview, on which golfers can go and measure distances and follow the entire length of the even most eccentric fairways? And yes, this view should include OOB lines (which do exist in CF, so these should be included). There is no need to see all the rest while players study the hole layout, so, again: Go full frame for the map, no need to keep it so small.

There even could be a functionality included within CF for designers to set the initial top view, making sure that it is framed properly. So: Press T, get a decent map and educate yourself, press T again to return to the main screen, play.

Yup, I forgot about console controllers. Well, I'm sure some solution can be found for these input devices as well.

 

 

So maybe its to narrow but if it were more wide it would get in the way seldom does a hole have a problem with the size of the overhead I am sure they observed all of this when they set up the views for the game and made decisions - Makes more sense now. 

[DPRoberts]

I couldn't resist. I usually can't. It took 40 minutes though. Some things would be easier for the next hole. It's still about 9 hours for the whole course. Could provide a handy dandy .pdf if you really desired. Could even add your inner thoughts about a hole. Maybe, in JNPG, they could just add a button for the yardage book view. In CF, the designer could upload images into individual hole slots similar to tees.

 

[Kablammo11]

Dang it, DPR: You've got to resist harder... you know I cant resist you not resisting.

 

I perfunctorily had to follow suit - disregard the lacking and approximate details.

 

 

Meh... rather mitigated success, though I approve of such a visual device being made available - it strikes me as being more efficient and useful than any other orientation help we currently have. Nice to have, if properly done.

Which is a problem. With lots of designers not even daring to run a simple texture through Photoshop (or Gimp) to raise contrast or slightly change the hue, how many will be putting in the hours and days to provide such a service at all? Can't even see me going through this.

 

I find that if you do not make your screen cap in the Scene View, but in the Game View, btw, you get a small bonus. That way you get to use the Main Camera, which compiles the game view, and above all, are able change it's field of view to more of a tele lens - and this allows you to compress long distances, a lot like on Mimics illustration, and make the nature of the hole feel actually more palpable.

 

Footnote: Don't get me started on camera work in the game - it's a tragic and irritating state of affair for me that each and every frame of each and every camera shows basically the same wide lens framing. An aesthetic faux-pas, imo.

 

One mega-huge drawback of this, though: If such a device were included in the game and employed, there is no way that JNPG could measure distances and allow any aiming on it. Nor could it ever show the actual pin positions. This would be completely disconnected from the system of coordinates the game needs to perform any mathematical operations.

It would require some major game and CF readjustments to create a CF functionality that allows screen captures to be taken and their content to be linked with the game coordinates somehow. Though not entirely impossible, just very complicated and requiring triangulation points, I'd say this is a few dozen bridges too far out for our friendly Devs.

[DPRoberts]

Great look from the green back. I'll admit I actually took my cap from in game. I fiddled with the field of view on the main camera and couldn't do what you managed to do. (Which is get that lovely, low and compressed perspective.)

My other issue is seeing some terrain blobs (maybe Z fighting) that don't show up close in the editor/game view but do far away. Then, they are absent in JNPG. Is this a smoothing problem or a Unity setting issue? Or no idea, haven't seen it? Tried adjusting clipping planes on camera to no avail.

Final aside, it sounds as if the main camera in game is separate from the Unity Main Camera. There is no harm to adjusting settings to this camera and failing to return the numbers back to some standard?

Idle folly always returns to some educational moment. Thanks. My apologies to the OP on the brief tangent but I believe it still somewhat applies.

[DPRoberts]

It's possible my stopping the near clipping plane at 0.1 was not small enough. Unfortunately, I think I unnecessarily was afraid of the less sizable version of Mike Jones on my shoulder at the time shaking his head while I adjusted Main Camera numbers.

[Kablammo11]

You have a Shaky Head Mike, too? How can this guy be in two places at once? Freaky...

 

Afaik you can do with the Main Camera whatever you want. Does not impact the game experience. 

Oddly enough, I never had any poky terrain or Z-fighting when looking at things in the Game View (Second tab on the top of the Unity Window - I know you know that, others might not.)

If your view contains deep bunkers, you need to lower the terrain first, of course.

 

What I do, to use the Main Cam best, is to first place the scene view at the point I want to look through the Main Camera from. Mostly low and a bit offset from the main axis of the hole, in my case. Move if far enough back if you intend to zoom in, at least 500 m or more.

Then, I highlight the Main Cam, go to top menu > game object > Align Object with View. This transports the Main Cam to my scene POV and makes it look in the same direction.

I switch to Game View and in the inspector, I can then change the Field of View slider. It's usually around 60, lower numbers are more like a zoom lens. Try 15.

Finally, I adjust the Main Camera in the Scene View: There, I move the scene cam a few m back until I can make out the main camera as an object. This object I then can move and rotate, until it points in the exactly right direction, using the small main cam insert to help me aim.

Once that is done, I return to Game View and - with the cursor over it - press Shift+Space to make it full frame for more resolution, then take my snap shot. 

[DPRoberts]

Great workflow.

I do best when the omnipresent MJ is in Rodin's "Thinker" pose but rarely does he stay that way.

The "align with view" is definitely the best way to handle putting the camera where you need it. I used to fly about but got frustrated resetting rotations to 0 which arises when the "flybys" are added. Maybe I should add a second camera, as it seems you have, but that has small annoyances as well.

I will fiddle later and report back if I cannot replicate your results.

[MimicPS]

Wonderful work fellas.... more power to your palettes!

 

Wouldn't it be great to see these on a 'caddy book' button which designers could voluntarily elect to add work to... or indeed farm the work out to interested third-parties.

[DPRoberts]

Maybe only 10 minutes after having the numbers already measured. I would design with the yardage book in mind and place markers throughout as reference and leave or maybe delete at end so I would say this is doable.

 

Follow as K11 says. Ignore my brief comments about the camera. There is no additional camera required. I misunderstood his description of a camera when it was the "Scene view" camera which is always present but not in the Hierarchy like the "Main Camera" that he was making reference to. (never end sentences in a preposition)

 

Small note, when you click "Align with View", you will get a box with 4 control points. You can use the Inspector to scale the Field of View of the camera or actually just grab the box with left mouse and interactively scale in the Scene.

 

A bit overboard with the Poster Edge effect but it's version 2 and occasionally that happens with version 2.

 

N.B.  - Setting my Near Clipping Plane to a larger number was the solution to my "terrain blobs". I do not yet understand the Near Clipping and am not sure it matters to understand it.