12 replies to this topic

[Shimvolski]

I like to beta test as much as possible to contribute however I can.  I have a question regarding a feature I see on some user made courses and pp courses but don't see on others.  I have commented on this in some of my beta test comments and am just wondering what others think and also what is involved in creating this feature as I don't have the first clue as I have not used course forge.  I may be the only guy in the room who notices this but one thing I think makes the courses look so much more real is when the fairways and green aprons have a clean up cut around the outside.  It appears most tees and greens already have these outside edges mowed but only some fairways have this.  One example is in the Riviera beta the fairways have the outside edge mowed and I have seen this in others.  I was once a greens keeper during my college years so I know from experience that no matter what direction you make your stripes, you will always finish the mowing of the fairway/greens/tees/aprons by doing a clean up mow to have the defined edge along the outside edge of the fairway.  Below is an example where you can see the stripes on the fairway and then the clean up stripe along the outside edge before it transitions to rough.  The first image is a real life course, the second is crystal pines.

http://imgur.com/a/akKJV

[DPRoberts]

Any chance you can post that photo differently? It won't allow me to view it.

This post describes one way using imgur but you can probably use any photo share type site.

http://www.perfectpa...m/?fromsearch=1

[Shimvolski]

No problem, updated image.

[M Rose]

I've done this on Cherry Hills and it looks great; it requires an extra spline on each hole, but it isn't a big deal. Cherry actually has a couple different fairway patterns for some approaches and I'm putting those in a few places.

[Shimvolski]

Glad its not a big deal.  Is it something worth mentioning during beta testing or is it already too late to add splines for that once a course is in beta test?  

[DPRoberts]

From a designer perspective, it is straight forward around a tee box. Extra spline as Matthew states and looks nice.

 

To get that effect, there is a spline for the crosscut, a spline for the clean cut and spline for the firstcut or rough

 

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Around a green is more of a challenge because these splines usually have to encircle the green. If you get too many splines going around something (like the green), it may look odd and be a challenge because all the splines need some distance from each other to draw correctly. The image below is one solution that I have experimented with and believe looks ok. The fairway with the crosscut is stopped in front of the green and a small mower width is left for your finishing cut. I would love for you to post some shots of a green as well.

 

[Shimvolski]

That last picture you have looks very good.  In the front of the green that clean up cut in front of the green is very realistic.  A lot of the time in real life a different mower is used to cut the fringe around the green.  The mower used will have a smaller width and be lighter so that the green won't be damaged if the mower wheels touch the green.  The bigger fairway mowers don't want to get too close to the green and make ruts.  If one was to go all out in a recreation, the front apron a lot of the time will have narrower splines as the smaller mower will cut a shorter length grass immediately in front of the green, usually perpendicular to the approach to the green like the image below.  It just depends on the course as not all courses cut a shorter length grass than the fairway for the apron.  Most times the picture you have above is what is done as it takes less time to mow.  Slewin did the short apron in his rendition of Winged foot, here is a link to this mowing technique:  https://www.google.c...486353331251450

[DPRoberts]

I'm glad you posted on it. For me, understanding the landscaper/greenkeeper side to the course construction is part of the artistry in attempting the realism. It is some of these hangups that have prevented me from actually making it to completion! Sadly/Embarrassingly, I would love a book or link on golf course maintenance or mowing patterns. It just needs to warm up and I need to get out and play.

 

Here is another decorative idea. It takes more time obviously.

 

 

Out of curiosity, what is the typical width of the mower on the cleancut around the fairways?

[DPRoberts]

That last picture you have looks very good.  In the front of the green that clean up cut in front of the green is very realistic.  A lot of the time in real life a different mower is used to cut the fringe around the green.  The mower used will have a smaller width and be lighter so that the green won't be damaged if the mower wheels touch the green.  The bigger fairway mowers don't want to get too close to the green and make ruts.  If one was to go all out in a recreation, the front apron a lot of the time will have narrower splines as the smaller mower will cut a shorter length grass immediately in front of the green, usually perpendicular to the approach to the green like the image below.  It just depends on the course as not all courses cut a shorter length grass than the fairway for the apron.  Most times the picture you have above is what is done as it takes less time to mow.  Slewin did the short apron in his rendition of Winged foot, here is a link to this mowing technique:  https://www.google.c...486353331251450

 

In your link to Winged Foot, I have placed arrows where it appears the green and fringe would be meeting. Would you say the fairway tends to be the same height as the fringe or is it cut with a different mower and slightly below. Is the fairway somewhat confluent with the green fringe? I guess it can be both and when an apron is done at a lower height, the apron and fringe match in heights. Sorry to be a pest but these silly ideas have floated in my head for some time.

 

[Shimvolski]

The typical clean cut width will be the exact same width as the stripes on the fairway.  I have seen some courses use a narrower mower for the edge so that is normal as well but usually on more expensive/private courses, it takes more time and personnel to have a separate mower.  The reason the narrower mower is used sometimes is so the operator of the mower can be more precise about not cutting into the first cut or rough which will scalp the longer grass.  I don't know that I have ever seen a book on mowing patterns.  The normal back and forth stripes is usually what you will see.  When you see diamonds or squares in the cutting is because one day the mower went one direction and then the next day they cross cut it the other direction.  Some days when there were tournaments we would cut the greens in two different directions on the same day to get the greens to be extra clean/fast.  Here is a random video I found on how cross cutting is done:  

Here is another video on greens keeping, around minute 14 they talk about mowing patterns, he also mentions the pattern that you will see in Bethpage Red in the game where one side of the fairway is darker than they other.  That pattern is done simply by mowing one direction on one side and the other direction on the other.  

[Shimvolski]

On your fringe question, typically when the course has a shorter apron like winged foot, the fringe will be the same length as the apron and apron is a little shorter than the fairway.  Sometimes the apron is the same length as the fairway but just cut with a narrower mower.  In cases where there isn't the apron, the fringe is usually the same length as the fairway.  I just found these two videos which really shows the whole clean up cut process perfectly.  The greens will have wider stripes when a triple bladed riding mower like this is used :

[M Rose]

I have some mowline templates I've made that are extremely handy; they are set up as Photoshop layers with adjustable patterns, sizes, and transparencies.

Most of my green textures are usually striped to look like they are hand-mown; it's a look I really dig. I often do it for tees as well.

The nice thing about Course Forge is that you don't have to embed them into the texture like you did with Links; you can keep them separate from the main texture and also change the size in the designer.

[Shimvolski]

I had some more discussion on another forum on this, here is some more info I copied over from my post there on greens keeping.

All courses have the clean up stripe, it is the only way you can cut an even edge of the fairway, otherwise the edge of fairways would look like small 90 degree angles or stairs especially when you are going around bends. You may not notice the clean up stripe all the time depending on the conditions and angle you are looking at it. In real life if you can see any stripes on a fairway, you should be able to see the clean up stripe as well.  On the linked image, the fairway mower did the checkerboard patterns and then did the clean up stripe alone the edge. Then a smaller mower did the fringe of the green and the apron in front of the green. In real life you will hardly ever see the fairway mower stripes getting very close to a green. Depending on the conditions, you will keep the fairway mower 50 or so feet away from the front of the green. This is to prevent the bigger heavier mower from damaging the green. The greens are usually softer than the fairways because they require more water. You will also normally see the apron cut at a very similar angle to the front edge of the green as you can see in the picture below, this saves time and prevents the fringe mower from driving on the green as you are driving back and forth parallel to the front of the green so you never have to cross it. Minimally this apron will be cut far enough from the green to mow over where the fairway mower was turning around to cut the fairway:

http://imgur.com/a/cZdDC