86 replies to this topic

[Greensboronclion]

I am going to rant and I am sorry but please fix these two glaring problems of Lipouts and Vanishing Meter.  I just played Southport Rd 3 PGLS and had 7 yes 7 lipouts and don't tell me its me because these balls barely got to the hole and did it as always.  The edge of the cup in this game is a dead issue and would rather see the old sucking of the ball into the hole than this mess.  Sorry its not realistic and I know its being worked on but it has to get fixed as it just is not enjoyable to play right now.  The second issue is the constant of having to click to aim to get the meter to show and sometimes I have to do it multiple times for it to come up.  For the 3C and MS player its a total grove killer and I just cant understand how this is still a problem in the game.  Some will say sour grapes and its your putting but I say BS as we all know there are issues but come on if you cant play the edge of the hole you cant play the game properly and this issue and the meter should be way ahead of 3D turf and anything else IMHO.  I am thru go ahead and Flog me.

[Buck]

Is any of the lipout/pop out thing course dependent?

 

I definitely have seen it, but I don't feel like it's been as often as you are having and it definitely sucks when it happens.

I'm just trying to figure out why it seems to be occurring more to some than others...

[curtis rogers]

Don't get the vanishing meter, but got to agree the lipouts are a total nightmare.

[Crow357]

On the meter, someone was counseling another person the other day on that very same issue.  They said to make sure you were using a right handed golfer.  That if he's set to left handed, it will cause this meter vanish issue.

[Affo]

Might just be in my head, but I seem to feel that some courses are more prone to lipouts than others. I may just not be as accurate in those rounds, but it's been enough to make me wonder?

[Buck]

Might just be in my head, but I seem to feel that some courses are more prone to lipouts than others. I may just not be as accurate in those rounds, but it's been enough to make me wonder?

 

That has been my impression also, albeit a very unscientific one.

It sort of makes me wonder if there's something a designer is/isn't doing around the cup that might make the game engine more prone to have this issue?

 

Again - All just spitballing here..

I feel awful for those that are seeing it a ton, as I can just imagine the frustration.  

It's super maddening when it happens.

[Dazmaniac]

Without actually seeing the lip outs being experienced, it's hard to pass comment.

[Affo]

That has been my impression also, albeit a very unscientific one.

It sort of makes me wonder if there's something a designer is/isn't doing around the cup that might make the game engine more prone to have this issue?

 

Again - All just spitballing here..

I feel awful for those that are seeing it a ton, as I can just imagine the frustration.  

It's super maddening when it happens.

Indeed, nothing scientific here either and not being a Designer, not sure what goes on regarding holes etc...but at least i'm not alone, lol.

[Crow357]

I think the lips are more pronounced on the higher stimps.

[JoeF]

Flog, flog, flog...flog...flog, flog, flog.  Sorry, G, but if the ball lips out it's because it was travelling too fast for the point where it interacted on the edge of the cup.  The closer to the edge the less speed required to lip out relative to the centre of the cup.  I've had as many lip-ins as lip-outs and it doesn't take much of a speed difference to keep the ball from falling at the edge of the cup rather than lipping in.  It seems you were hitting your putts with just a hair too much power for the edge.  Frustrating - yes - and we've all done it.  The games fault - no - you aimed and stroked the putts.  Some days your pace is right on the money and your aim is a bit better, on other days you get neither right.  That's golf.

Pop-outs are a definite bug that are no fault of the player.

[Greensboronclion]

On the meter, someone was counseling another person the other day on that very same issue.  They said to make sure you were using a right handed golfer.  That if he's set to left handed, it will cause this meter vanish issue.

I always use right handed and it's been there forever.

[Greensboronclion]

I think the lips are more pronounced on the higher stimps.

I thought this also but the Stimp was at 11. I might agree that we don't see lipouts at all course but some seem to be a bit much and Southport has had quite a bit.

[Greensboronclion]

Flog, flog, flog...flog...flog, flog, flog.  Sorry, G, but if the ball lips out it's because it was travelling too fast for the point where it interacted on the edge of the cup.  The closer to the edge the less speed required to lip out relative to the centre of the cup.  I've had as many lip-ins as lip-outs and it doesn't take much of a speed difference to keep the ball from falling at the edge of the cup rather than lipping in.  It seems you were hitting your putts with just a hair too much power for the edge.  Frustrating - yes - and we've all done it.  The games fault - no - you aimed and stroked the putts.  Some days your pace is right on the money and your aim is a bit better, on other days you get neither right.  That's golf.
Pop-outs are a definite bug that are no fault of the player.

Joe again a couple of these putts barely make it to the hole and go halfway down and out. It's not just me and even Mike has stated there is a problem. I have video golf for over 20 years and I think I can judge if it's to fast and it wasn't.

[Buck]

Joe again a couple of these putts barely make it to the hole and go halfway down and out. It's not just me and even Mike has stated there is a problem. I have video golf for over 20 years and I think I can judge if it's to fast and it wasn't.

 

 

It sounds like we are mixing the convo a bit between pop out and lip out, yeah?

[Greensboronclion]

It sounds like we are mixing the convo a bit between pop out and lip out, yeah?

What I am talking about is the putt that is on the edge and starts down and then goes sideways. If the putt has to much speed and h append then it's a good lipouts but if it's a dying quail at the hole it's not realistic. IRL if you see one a round that is normal but 7 is not. The edge of the hole is the problem but why not at all courses as the more I think about it I don't see it happen at some courses but more at others and always at the higher stimp but then again the Stimp was 11 there.

[Sliceapottomus]

lipouts happen on all courses... even stock courses.... does it have something to do with stimp of course it does.... the balls hit off center on higher stimps exacerbate the problem that exists. I don't think stimp is the cause Im leaning towards the ground physics playing a part here, which may be exacerbated by the firmness of green also. If the equation being used is correct then what else is there to point your finger at?

[Greensboronclion]

lipouts happen on all courses... even stock courses.... does it have something to do with stimp of course it does.... the balls hit off center on higher stimps exacerbate the problem that exists. I don't think stimp is the cause Im leaning towards the ground physics playing a part here, which may be exacerbated by the firmness of green also. If the equation being used is correct then what else is there to point your finger at?

Some good points there Slice.

[jmk59]

Sorry in advance for the long post...

 

The notion that "the ball must go in if it's half-way down" is wrong.  Because the ball is rolling towards the cup, it also has angular momentum.  This allows the ball to be slightly lower than half-way down, and still escape the cup.

The pop-outs (IMHO) are not related to the capture math.  I think they are CF construction related.

 

All paths being equal, you should encounter ~3 to 4 true lip-ins or outs for an 18 hole round ( more if you "slam" putt).  Seven in a round seems excessive.  IMHO, the extras are typically due to how the hole is cut (on extreme slopes).  Stimp should not influence the overall number if your ball is arriving at the hole with the proper velocity.

 

Go to the PP link below and log into our "Recorded Rounds Database" site.

http://www.perfectparallel.com/topic/8747-recordings-quick-login/

 

Under the folder "Golf Library / Putting" you will find a jpg and spreadsheet that is the Venn diagram for capture velocity vs. path across the hole, based on four B.W. Holmes capture models.  Lip-outs and ins occur when the ball's cg is within one radius of the hole edge, about 40% of the paths, and will include a change of direction.

 

The entire Golf Library is my personal collection of golf-type engineering models for constructing a PC golf sim. Feel free to browse and download - everything on the site is meant for PP community members to use.

 

JMK59
 

[DoGgs]

Is any of the lipout/pop out thing course dependent?

 

I definitely have seen it, but I don't feel like it's been as often as you are having and it definitely sucks when it happens.

I'm just trying to figure out why it seems to be occurring more to some than others...

mwahh hahaha southport bites.... if you come at a downhill putt with any kind of pace then you will lip out unless dead accurate, with downhill putts you really have to learn to gauge putt power and apply it accordingly.  you will get away with it more on uphill putts...it kinda makes sense to me, apply this advice and you will not see so many questionable lip outs, because if that downhill putt is still travelling even a smidgen too much you will not see it drop side door...now get to it!

[Barry]

Joe again a couple of these putts barely make it to the hole and go halfway down and out. It's not just me and even Mike has stated there is a problem. I have video golf for over 20 years and I think I can judge if it's to fast and it wasn't.

I have definitely seen the ball half disappearing into the hole then pop out again and a good few lip outs that I believe should have dropped.

But for everyone who say's its a problem you get others saying it isn't the only people that know are the devs