58 replies to this topic

[shimonko]

Standard issue -  room not wide enough to have the ball central.  Without offset I'm intuitively pulling the ball back to the target in the center of the screen, which of course results in a huge pull way left of target in game.

Offset to the rescue, but PG's sim offset just moves the camera position over so the ball is seen offset from the center of the screen, but doesn't move the aim direction over so it's still in line with the ball (directly above it on screen). This can be seen below:
 

 
Now one can drop the aiming pole way left so the view looks good so a straight shot from the simulator is looking down the center of the range, like below:
 

 
But of course a straight shot recognized by a launch monitor is instead going to head towards that aiming point - way out left, as the video below shows:



Plus the ball launches from a central position instead of where it really lie - but not too concerned about that as it's only a meter. But I am concerned I'm training myself to hit out to the right of the target.

[SFR]

I have never tried this offset but just reading what you wrote and looking at the video here is my take on the offset.

 

Where the ball is on the screen (off to the right) is where you aim your real body and try to hit your ball toward.  This lets you hit your real shot to the right side of your setup but you still need to hit that mark of where the ball is shown in order to hit a straight shot.  If you are left of that ball with your shot it will produce a ball going left in the sim from what it thinks was a normal center viewed screen.

 

You still aim your shot with the aim stick to where you want to aim, as in to hit the green, aim to the center of the green with the aim stick.  

Thus your aim will be straight as you see but the ball is the target for you to start your real shot.  Once you hit and the monitor picks up your shot and you will notice that the ball starts on the sim from where normal middle would be.  Just as if you were hitting normal without offset.

 

So instead of seeing a ball starting from the far right of the screen and going to the target, it reverts back to center to start your shot for you to view.

 

I would then assume that if you were on a tee box and hovered your cursor over the ball to move the ball on the tee box and then move and drop the ball to the farthest right on the tee box, that it would then give you an aim ball that looked to be way right of the tee box markers.  Not sure how this would look as without offset, your ball would sit between the markers to start with.  Possibly in offset you may not be able to do this.

[shimonko]

Yes, but moving the ball for the purposes for knowing where the launch monitor is aligned is just the same as putting a mark on the screen or tape on the floor.

This is simply a viewing issue - changing the ball's position within the teebox is changing the way the hole is played.

E6 had it right from memory. I've just found a video of TGC and they appear to do it right as well: (skip to 38 seconds in or click https://youtu.be/wzw...w7l8fkTSk?t=38 )


 

See how the view moves as well, so hitting a dead straight shot from the simulator will hit to the right of the screen but still head down the center of the fairway.

[SFR]

shimonko, on 08 Sept 2017 - 02:41 AM, said:

Yes, but moving the ball for the purposes for knowing where the launch monitor is aligned is just the same as putting a mark on the screen or tape on the floor.

 

I was going to say just that..... that you would be doing a similar thing by just marking a spot on the screen and knowing where to hit your real ball to in order to hit straight.  As long as the monitor is parallel and aimed to that spot.

 

I would 100% agree that this offset option is not a real offset but rather just an aim point that you can see a ball to hit toward but not ideal compared to your other sample.  The only drawback with that offset is that you loose most of the view of the course on the right side to have it work.

 

Not saying PG's is a good option for offset but it seems like that is why most who try it don't understand what it's doing.

[shimonko]

That's right - losing the far right of the course but I believe a worthwhile sacrifice. At least all the overlays are happily on screen.

I haven't heard of anyone on the simulator forums who uses PG's offset - those who tried it, ditched it. Instead they either:

1. shrink the projected image so the right side of PG is at the right edge of the screen, but have a huge gap from PG to the left edge of the screen. eg. ShankyGolf:



2. rotate the projector to the right and keystone correct, where all the right side of the course and toolbars, map etc are lost off the edge of the screen (and digital keystoning always hurts quality) e.g. Stingreye (you can see the course on the side wall)

 

 

3. Mount their project off center, same issues as 2 except no keystoning required.
 

I also watch movies on the screen and don't wish to lose the right of the projection. A bit of the course I can handle.

[DPRoberts]

I have this issue in my room which is only 10.5 feet wide. I hit straight ahead and have my ball in line with my straightward target line. Below, is how I have worked around without using the PG offset.

I have a center mounted projector with a 4:3 screen. I run 16:9 resolution that pushes a few feet of the course onto the right wall. I then move the horizontal offset of the projector until my ball lines up with my forward/target line. It's about the width of the overhead map that gets pushed into the wall.

I have a computer monitor sitting a top the refrigerator in my garage that I use to line up the putts.

I don't feel like you miss much being pushed off the screen but it's annoying and should be fixable.

I have FSX and TGC and their management of the offset is correct. I never use those since adding JNPG except for the FSX range though. I have to adjust the projector back to 4:3 and move the horizontal offset of the projector back to the left when using those.

[DPRoberts]

Quick video of my setup.

I have my graphics setting in PG at 1680x1050. It has to be this in order for the horizontal offset (image shift) to be able to move far enough to the right. My projector is the Optoma GT1080.

It's a little screwy but it works and no one I play with even notices it. The immersion is still there when over the ball and you can fire straight ahead.

[shimonko]

What you have there, DP, I find even worse, because of the horizontal stretching that happens when PG renders out at 1680x1050 but the projector converts to 1920x1080 - noticeable by the circles on the screen being ellipses and all course contours and elevation looking flatter. 

The GT1080's image shift is a digital shift and crop, so they way I'm seeing it, PG is rendering out 1680 wide, the projector is stretching it to 1920 wide, then you're losing 5% of the screen at the left and 17.5% at the right.

Effectively you're displaying 1680 - 22.5%, around 1300 pixels of PG goodness. So you're losing detail and you're seeing all course contours flattened to cater for offset. But I understand the sacrifice as I too believe offset is more important.



 

[DPRoberts]

Well, all these issues disappear when the home addition happens!

But, yes, for now, I will tolerate the wide angle look over screwing up my swing.

So which option from above are you using Shimonko?

[shimonko]

I'm using the screwing up my swing option - but want to do something better before it becomes ingrained.

 

Currently I drive PG at 1720x1080 to fill my entire screen, with the projector at 1920x1080. But I tell the projector to black bar the sides (which are off the screen anyway) rather than stretch 1720 to 1920. So I don't lose any of the course or the GUI, nor have any stretching.

 

As it appears PG isn't being worked on anymore and PG2 quite a way off, when I get home I'll change it so I drive PG at something like 1200x1080, projector at 1920x1080, and put a much bigger black bar at the left to bring PG's centerline in line with the  simulator's target line. It'll mean losing maybe a 1/3 of the screen width.
 

[shimonko]

That didn't work too well - I thought I'd only lose 1/3rd of the screen width but with a 12' wide room, I'm nearly losing half.

And although I could set the projector and PG to the right width without stretching or cropping, my projector rejected the driver telling it to move the image off-center. Nor does my projector have image shifting.

From the pic below, one can see even if I could move the image to the right hand edge so it was centered about the striking position, there's simply too much wasted screen. Not enough active area, overhead map will be too obstructive.

[Wilson]

This is one of the reasons I never renewed my PG sim subscription.

[DPRoberts]

Haven't tried so not sure how this would feel playing but...

What if you centered everything with projector and ran a res to fill your screen. Use the PG offset to move the ball to be in line with your setup and turn your launch monitor to be parallel to the line coming from the center. And obviously, hit to the center.

Wondering how putts would look with that. But, it may give a truer feel of getting lined up. I tend to cheat a bit as all my marks run toward the screen giving me a point of reference for every shot.

[shimonko]

That wouldn't work as the target (flag or aim pole) is always on the centerline of the screen BUT a variable distance away - meaning the angle to the target always changes.

 

But I do agree, and have showed concern over on the simulator channel, that square mats and alignment marks in simulator golf is a bit similar to edging with a mouse, as alignment is a true challenge of golf. I'll be carving my mat into a circle when I get some time.

[DPRoberts]

shimonko, on 10 Sept 2017 - 9:13 PM, said:

That wouldn't work as the target (flag or aim pole) is always on the centerline of the screen BUT a variable distance away - meaning the angle to the target always changes.

Yes, but your target is the center and your launch monitor is parallel to that line back to your ball. So, your shot to the center will travel correctly. Your launch monitor doesn't care about the look. The angle is a visual thing only in relation to your offset golf ball. No?

I just tried it and didn't notice issue. Only thing I didn't like is that it will hiccup back to the center as the ball flies. I like it to fly from my point of impact on the screen. Probably not as big of an issue if you are skytrak with delay. I'm on GC2.

You did help me though. I'm back to running 1920x1080 and my shapes are no longer ellipses. I will stick with projector offset for now.

[shimonko]

Wilson, on 10 Sept 2017 - 1:54 PM, said:

This is one of the reasons I never renewed my PG sim subscription.

Did you get into to the OGT tours - as multiplay is just too much fun that really can't be had with any other option.

However there are a good 10 or so simulator streams showing JNPG daily - and it's stretched and/or severly cropped with icons half hanging off the screen etc - not a good look for the game.

[shimonko]

@DP, yes, the angle is a visual thing - a 2 ft putt would have the flag near the bottom of the screen, a 200 yard approach shot towards the middle of the screen or even higher if the hole is elevated like the 18th at Augusta. If the simulator was aligned to be parallel to a line joining the real ball with the bottom center of the screen, then it'd feel like I'm aiming progressively farther left as the hole distance gets farther. Does that make sense? The whole idea of offset after all is to eliminate the visual difference.
 

Just looking through the manual last night, my projector (Benq HT2150ST) only supports image shift in PC signal mode - I suspect that means via VGA cable only (not HDMI), but I will try it as I think I'd rather hit to a half screen than have this offset issue. I will try aiming the simulator as you also suggested as you found it ok when trying it.

[DPRoberts]

Gotcha. Went back and looked at it. Guessing you'll not want to hit at the center. I was thinking the hole was always centered vertically. It's not a massive difference in degrees as you play but enough to scare me away.

Bummer about your projector as well. Damn the poorly programmed offset!

[shimonko]

Agree, not a massive difference, but enough to turn birdie into par and undermine the accuracy in both big dollar equipment and game physics.

I wouldn't necessarily call it poor programming though - it just hasn't be spec'd appropriately or was put in for some other purpose.

[zmax - sim]

Since they are now working on PG2, I wouldn't expect this to change any time soon.   Let's wait till PG2 and make sure it gets done correctly in the new version.