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Posted 18 May 2013 - 01:09 PM
Just curious.. In the TW's CA (course architect) many times we will get seams/raised edges and tears between textures, from manipulating the terrain while designing also from lifting textures. So seam hunting is a real big deal in that game, you have to hunt them down on every hole and fix them..
Interested if this happens with Course Forge, are you guys getting seams/raised edges or tears between textures?
Done with designing.
Released Courses: Real
The Golf Club @ Dove Mnt. AZ
Aronimink PA
Amana Colonies Iowa
Fictional:
The Grinder Anytown U.S.A.
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Posted 18 May 2013 - 01:53 PM
Rock. Loud and Heavy
Posted 18 May 2013 - 03:49 PM
MJ has stated previously, and in his 'hole in 15 mins' video that the Course Forge actually handles the seam blending for you.
Not sure about the raised edges and how intricate that would be. Best for the PP guys to answer this one I guess.
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Posted 19 May 2013 - 12:35 AM
This is a typical seam I'm referencing..
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That looks horrible. The mapping seems to be wrong or not there at all. The edge sharpness also looks to be too sharp or the alpha is not right. Looks like things are done a little differently in the TW Course Arcitect then in APCD. The seams from MJs video look like they happen as you apply the textures. Either through the outlining of terrain types or even "painting" them in. I will not miss having to create paths and multiples. It was probably one of the most difficult things to understand in APCD, then it just became long and tedious. I think my last course had nearly 900 mappings. Can't wait to try Course Forge.
Advanced Member
Posted 19 May 2013 - 01:14 AM
Howdy TimBoch, its just a seam, raise the area slightly, flatten on minimum, smooth on first notch, fixed...
Im not really sure about all the technical lingo, I just know these happen more then we like and every one has to be fixed in order to present a decent course. They are tedious and sometimes can take a lot of work to fix... I hope CF doesn't have these issues..
I'm curious, when you say 900 mappings, what does that mean?
Also I hope cart paths can cross thru textures...
Done with designing.
Released Courses: Real
The Golf Club @ Dove Mnt. AZ
Aronimink PA
Amana Colonies Iowa
Fictional:
The Grinder Anytown U.S.A.
Advanced Member
Posted 19 May 2013 - 09:25 AM
In the APCD you have to create a mapping for every texture and for every seem blend between two textures i.e. tee to rough, rough to heavy rough, rough to mud, mud to water (if you had a non reflective water texture), rough to fairway and so on and most of the time you could not re-use a mapping on a different part of the course, which means that Tims course had about 50 mappings per hole... 
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Advanced Member
Posted 19 May 2013 - 09:49 AM
@axe360 - If you are interested in how APCD differs from your CA, I made a complete Youtube tutorial series which covers things like mappings, seam blends etc. You can find all the links here:
http://linkscorner.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29644
My courses usually take around three months work to make, but many designers with less time on their hands can take well over a year or more. I believe courses for Tiger Woods are much quicker to produce. This is why Links designers are excited about the prospects of using Course Forge! 
Advanced Member
Posted 19 May 2013 - 01:18 PM
@Axe360
Have you seen the new video getting started #3?? I think this covers what your asking...??
Hope this helps-
Maineah
Advanced Member
Posted 19 May 2013 - 02:54 PM
Thank you guy's I will check both of those out.. 
Ok, that's enough for me, APCD looks way way way to complicated and time consuming.. Seam blending for example, in TW CA, we just draw a shape around the area that needs blending, raise a little, flatten then smooth, sometimes just smoothing fixes the seam..
Takes usually about 2 mins to do..
APCD looks like it has some cool tools but TW CA, way more user friendly.. Wow...
Thanks again...
Done with designing.
Released Courses: Real
The Golf Club @ Dove Mnt. AZ
Aronimink PA
Amana Colonies Iowa
Fictional:
The Grinder Anytown U.S.A.
Rock. Loud and Heavy
Posted 19 May 2013 - 07:23 PM
I always wondered why designers raised textures like in Axe's example pic. What effect is the raised texture trying to achieve?
I remember once playing a course in Links 2003 with raised first cut textures like this and if the ball landed right on the edge of where it had been raised, the ball shot off at 90 degrees like it had hit the side of a kerb/pavement, lol. Totally unrealistic.
IRL, I don't remember seeing many teeing areas sunk below the level of the border fringe. Surely with Course Forge (as it is built on Unity) you can select a grass texture that is actually 3D so it appears as short grass and not the billiard table smoothness we will see on tees, fairways and greens.
Advanced Member
Posted 19 May 2013 - 07:43 PM
@Dazmaniac the TW course architect had a nasty habit of producing the torn seams... I'd be surprised if anyone put them in on purpose (although it is possible to do).
I think that axe360 was hoping that Courseforge would not replicate this issue...
Advanced Member
Posted 19 May 2013 - 10:02 PM
@Dazmaniac the TW course architect had a nasty habit of producing the torn seams... I'd be surprised if anyone put them in on purpose (although it is possible to do).
I think that axe360 was hoping that Courseforge would not replicate this issue...
Exactly garynorman, this is not put ih their purposely and I can't say 100percent for sure why these occur, sometimes when you lift textures to do some optimizing, sometimes when you are doing elevations work across different textures or sometimes when you smooth an area to much....
The pic is from a friend of mines course and the area with the seam is between the fairway and the first cut near the fairway bunker depicted in the overhead map, right where you see the golf ball..
This area is right next to that bunker and probably occurred due to working so closely to the textures and doing elevation work on that bunker.. As I explained these usually can be fixed easy enough but they are a pain and a fact of life. They can be real difficult though to fix when they occur between the green and the fringe but most designers that care about their course will fix everyone they can find.. that's why testing from other people is a must!
These are absolutely NOT done on purpose and you are right again gary, I am hoping these don't occur with the new CF too..
Daz, if you saw this seam on a custom TW's course, it was there because the designer missed it or didn't care to fix it, usually because it was missed.
Axe..
Done with designing.
Released Courses: Real
The Golf Club @ Dove Mnt. AZ
Aronimink PA
Amana Colonies Iowa
Fictional:
The Grinder Anytown U.S.A.
Advanced Member
Posted 19 May 2013 - 10:27 PM
I have designed lots of courses for TW2008 and I am in the process of designing my first course with the APCD and IMO the APCD is far more complex than the TW2008 course designer. Axe360 was one of the first to help me when I started designing for TW2008 and I will always greatly appreciate the help he gave me. It was Lez Marwick's videos that finally helped me to grasp the basics of the APCD and I have to say that without them I would still be clueless. Many thanks Lez for taking the time and effort to make and release them. I am hoping that CourseForge will be simpler than both the above, fingers crossed.
Advanced Member
Posted 20 May 2013 - 09:31 PM
I have designed lots of courses for TW2008 and I am in the process of designing my first course with the APCD and IMO the APCD is far more complex than the TW2008 course designer. Axe360 was one of the first to help me when I started designing for TW2008 and I will always greatly appreciate the help he gave me. It was Lez Marwick's videos that finally helped me to grasp the basics of the APCD and I have to say that without them I would still be clueless. Many thanks Lez for taking the time and effort to make and release them. I am hoping that CourseForge will be simpler than both the above, fingers crossed.
Thanks for the kind words. It is always great to hear that people are benefiting from my videos. I don't know how many hours they add up to, but including the planning time, editing, rehearsing bits etc they certainly took an age to make!
It will be interesting to see if it is possible to add to the Course Forge courses from Unity alone, or whether the game engine will require only standard assets to be used. With more freedom to use Unity, who knows what amazing courses could be created!
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