197 replies to this topic

[MERACE]

I was going to agree with you until you arbitrarily chose $50-70 as "the right amount"
Where'd that come from?

That's the price range for what in my mind is comparable to what most other AAA games are priced at.

 

 

-MERACE

[Drgnslyr221]

I would pay $100 one time and $20 a year of they had a full fledged career and they fixed the major bugs.

[Buck]

Either annual releases or a subscription model is needed.

Totally agree.

I think in a niche like this, especially for a game that fancies itself a simulation which further narrows the niche, I think it's likely that the annual cost of a release needs to be north of $100.

I simply prefer the subscription model to get that money from users as it removes any hesitation about releasing updates and features along the way.
When they are ready, they ship, and are not held back to create artificial "features" for next years version.

It just creates overhead that is wasted energy by management and developers.

[Buck]

That's the price range for what in my mind is comparable to what most other AAA games are priced at.

The concern with that comparison is addressable market size.
Golf is a tiny fraction of the market that most AAA games can target and thus they (AAA general interest games) can price more aggressively.

I even think PG itself is a niche within a niche in that it aims to be very realistic and challenging, further narrowing the market.

[Richard]

@BUCK

The problem I have with this whole discussion is that, IMHO, it assumes that Trackman/PP want to be in the gaming business. I really question that premise. I see PG2 as being an accessory for the Trackman simulator with possible ancillary sales for other simulators. I just don’t see PG2 as a game with a broad equipment base, such as, PC, console, simulators or pads. That’s my current opinion anyway.

As to my expenditure level I’d limit myself to $50/year. I’m not a gamer and don’t want any complicated payment scenarios i.e. an annual subscription that automatically kicks unless canceled. I always avoid such scenarios to the point of completely bypassing a product purchase. Of course this a moot point if PG2 ends up as simulator only. Then my expenditure is $0.

[Buck]

@BUCK

The problem I have with this whole discussion is that, IMHO, it assumes that Trackman/PP want to be in the gaming business. I really question that premise. I see PG2 as being an accessory for the Trackman simulator with possible ancillary sales for other simulators. I just don’t see PG2 as a game with a broad equipment base, such as, PC, console, simulators or pads. That’s my current opinion anyway.

 

Another day of complete agreement between Richard & Buck - lol

Times have changed!

 

I totally agree with you Richard...

 

I just thought the poll would be a good thought experiment to keep the patrons on the Titanic listening to the violins vs looking inside at the water rising...

[Richard]

Another day of complete agreement between Richard & Buck - lol
Times have changed!
 
I totally agree with you Richard...
 
I just thought the poll would be a good thought experiment to keep the patrons on the Titanic listening to the violins vs looking inside at the water rising...

Buck you know how I feel about discussion for the sake of discussion. It’s like discussion of politics or religion. IMHO it serves no purpose.


Anyway, I done with this topic. I’ve stated my thoughts.

[trailblazergolf]

sometimes reading these forums makes my head spin--- i'm  just an old fart --all I want and need is to sit  down at my desk , crank up PG (which happens to be excelant game ) that gladly bought  and bought all PTP courses which are butyfull as are all the courses and spend few hours of gr8 fun !!, - now all this talk bout controlers etc etc and taking away from us PC users to a certain extent some excelance of the game makes me nervous-- I left links 2003 which I played for YRS  I came here 2nd day  it was released , been through all up-dates and moved on with the game  - now the talk PG 2  and having to buy----I hope the having to buy is for new comers only--promote the new properly and the money WILL come---- -end of speech

[MERACE]

The concern with that comparison is addressable market size.
Golf is a tiny fraction of the market that most AAA games can target and thus they (AAA general interest games) can price more aggressively.

I even think PG itself is a niche within a niche in that it aims to be very realistic and challenging, further narrowing the market.

I agree but even those in the "niche" market have limits on what they will pay (i.e. Richard). 

 

 

-MERACE

[Buck]

sometimes reading these forums makes my head spin--- i'm  just an old fart --all I want and need is to sit  down at my desk , crank up PG (which happens to be excelant game ) that gladly bought  and bought all PTP courses which are butyfull as are all the courses and spend few hours of gr8 fun !!, - now all this talk bout controlers etc etc and taking away from us PC users to a certain extent some excelance of the game makes me nervous-- I left links 2003 which I played for YRS  I came here 2nd day  it was released , been through all up-dates and moved on with the game  - now the talk PG 2  and having to buy----I hope the having to buy is for new comers only--promote the new properly and the money WILL come---- -end of speech

 

All viewpoints are welcome.

I added a 7th option to the poll for you

[mebby]

sometimes reading these forums makes my head spin--- i'm  just an old fart --all I want and need is to sit  down at my desk , crank up PG (which happens to be excelant game ) that gladly bought  and bought all PTP courses which are butyfull as are all the courses and spend few hours of gr8 fun !!, - now all this talk bout controlers etc etc and taking away from us PC users to a certain extent some excelance of the game makes me nervous-- I left links 2003 which I played for YRS  I came here 2nd day  it was released , been through all up-dates and moved on with the game  - now the talk PG 2  and having to buy----I hope the having to buy is for new comers only--promote the new properly and the money WILL come---- -end of speech

Then the forum world may not be the best place for you to spend your time.  Glad you love the game.  I think it's a great golf game as well.  At the end of the day, if that's all that matters to you then there's little to no reason to visit the forum except to see if any updates are coming.

[3199E5kennetharry]

what makes you think PG2 will be free of all the things that are wrong with this version. This is the blue print and it's got failures. 

[jmk59]

I feel like I've entered into a bad episode of The Price Is Right.

[Joe Habiger]

Totally agree.

I think in a niche like this, especially for a game that fancies itself a simulation which further narrows the niche, I think it's likely that the annual cost of a release needs to be north of $100.

I simply prefer the subscription model to get that money from users as it removes any hesitation about releasing updates and features along the way.
When they are ready, they ship, and are not held back to create artificial "features" for next years version.

It just creates overhead that is wasted energy by management and developers.

 

Now say these users don't want to pay for a subscription service for the updates, now they can't play the game or the newest update which is completely retarded. This is a GOLF GAME, this is not an MMORPG where most are subscription based and you can't play if your not subscribed. 

 

Once a year at $49-$59 is good since we will have course packs to buy as well (but not obligated to). I think charging $100 like you seem to want is retarded once again, tell me what game charges that amount each year because your going to scare people away at that price point and in a business your here to make money right?

They had or still do have a very good game but it needed more updates and more options for others who HATE this tempo based swing, no need to reinvent the wheel PP "OR" atleast have an option to turn it off for others who enjoy no tempo. I personally don't mind it but you lost 7 other friends of mine who would love to come back to this game since it has a great designer that we would enjoy churning out courses with. The game didn't look bad either but again you make bad choices and you lose potential buyers. 

I still have Hazeltine ready to be worked on but since all my friends left I had no drive to keep playing the game and designing but I wanted to wait for that grass before I dive into it again.

[IanK]

I'm never going to pay a one-off payment of more than around £45 for any game. I'm not paying for a subscription. This is assuming that PG2 is ever released.
PG1 is still good for my solo play and CF for my course designing.

[Buck]

Now say these users don't want to pay for a subscription service for the updates, now they can't play the game or the newest update which is completely retarded. This is a GOLF GAME, this is not an MMORPG where most are subscription based and you can't play if your not subscribed.

Once a year at $49-$59 is good since we will have course packs to buy as well (but not obligated to). I think charging $100 like you seem to want is retarded once again, tell me what game charges that amount each year because your going to scare people away at that price point and in a business your here to make money right?
They had or still do have a very good game but it needed more updates and more options for others who HATE this tempo based swing, no need to reinvent the wheel PP "OR" atleast have an option to turn it off for others who enjoy no tempo. I personally don't mind it but you lost 7 other friends of mine who would love to come back to this game since it has a great designer that we would enjoy churning out courses with. The game didn't look bad either but again you make bad choices and you lose potential buyers.
I still have Hazeltine ready to be worked on but since all my friends left I had no drive to keep playing the game and designing but I wanted to wait for that grass before I dive into it again.

Ok - so you're in at $60 per year.

One of many reasons for a subscription that I didn't articulate earlier in this thread is that all these new games basically have to bring, and pay for, ongoing online access as table stakes. That's the #1 reason why ongoing fees make sense. You make customers cover their own incurred variable costs + cover consistent updates and feature additions as you go along + some profit (the reason for being in business).

I mean look at PG1 when the servers are down. It's borderline useless. We already have a software as a service if we are being honest here. If PP goes away, there is no more PG1 as it is already. All we are missing is matching up the payment model to what already is the reality of the software.

[bgast1]

 I doubt that there will ever be a PG2. That's too bad. Really it is. Is there really that much graphically that can make this game better? I don't know the answer that's why I ask. If so, I would buy it but probably not a subscription.  Anyway, has any of the original developers been here looking at the forum? Again, I don't know the answer to this question either. Have we been abandoned?

[JCat04]

I'd go $40 - $50 a year for a continually updated game with occasional new content.  I've mostly quit playing the game since last Spring because I find the blocky, 2D rough textures and the outdated golfer animation not well suited for my preference in input methods, real time controller swing.  I don't have a clue where Perfect Parallel is actually going with their new partnership with Trackman, but I'd guess it's going to be heavily slanted toward the simulator side... that's where Trackman's bread is buttered and I'd imagine Trackman doesn't see the much profit potential with the PC or console product.

[Joe Habiger]

Ok - so you're in at $60 per year.

One of many reasons for a subscription that I didn't articulate earlier in this thread is that all these new games basically have to bring, and pay for, ongoing online access as table stakes. That's the #1 reason why ongoing fees make sense. You make customers cover their own incurred variable costs + cover consistent updates and feature additions as you go along + some profit (the reason for being in business).

I mean look at PG1 when the servers are down. It's borderline useless. We already have a software as a service if we are being honest here. If PP goes away, there is no more PG1 as it is already. All we are missing is matching up the payment model to what already is the reality of the software.

 

Either way $59.99 like Console game are priced or $14.99 a quarter if you seem to suggest a golf game being subscription based, We have 2 subscription based golf games that I know of and both are down right the stupidest things I have ever seen. You give the buying public the option but not mandatory. I just don't like subscription based anything UNLESS you have the perfect game or market it just perfectly. Don't force money, money, money on paying customers. Again, you piss them off you lose them and now where is your money??

[Buck]

Either way $59.99 like Console game are priced or $14.99 a quarter if you seem to suggest a golf game being subscription based, We have 2 subscription based golf games that I know of and both are down right the stupidest things I have ever seen. You give the buying public the option but not mandatory. I just don't like subscription based anything UNLESS you have the perfect game or market it just perfectly. Don't force money, money, money on paying customers.  Again, you piss them off you lose them and now where is your money??

 
I understand your apprehension about subscriptions.  
Thanks for sharing your viewpoint.