40 replies to this topic

[M Rose]

The original release had a few lingering issues that never really got resolved.... it's always been my intention to improve it as it was one of the earliest courses I did and I feel like I'm a much better designer now than I was two years ago. I've also made some cosmetic changes to the textures and planting. The original was done in an older Unity and didn't take advantage of pot bunkers; there's a few of those scattered about the course now. I've also got the custom flag.

 

One of the main issues was with the hazard lines; in a lot of cases they were drawn too close to the water, leaving players with some extreme sidehill stances following their drops. I've made an effort to move a lot of the hazard lines further up these slopes as well as softening many of them overall.

 

I thought some of Pete Dye's new back tees added in the last 10 years have made the course almost too long... nobody in PG is hitting it in Dustin Johnson range yet. I actually have taken some artistic license and moved the back markers up one tee on #16 and a little bit forward on #11 as I felt these holes were just brutally long and maybe not quite as strategic as they would be if they were 10-20 yards shorter. Same with #9, which I believe has always supposed to have been driveable in certain conditions but from the 361 yard tee it's pretty impossible in this game.

 

I know this course has been used in a lot of tournament play and it has been frustrating for a lot of people, so I felt like I could probably make it a much better course than it was. I've decided to beta test this new version for a little while just to make sure there aren't any further problems before putting it back out there. So I'm gonna put it in beta for a week or so.

On the lake between 4 and 14, I've added a real stone wall all around the perimeter instead of just a texture that I had before. Looks infinitely better IMO.

 

Here's a look at one of the pot bunkers. I've only added a handful of them, but they are in prominent spots.

[KenR]

Nice work Matt!

[MimicPS]

Hi Matt,

 

On the original I always found myself wondering whether the units used were correct, as the rise to the green on the 5th hole on the River course seemed somewhat exaggerated compared to images I have seen. Is the source material from LIDAR?

 

 

I love the challenge of the course, and the need to not be pin-hunting to score well, but it almost feels with the original that slopes have been 'turned up to 11' when in places, with JNPG's admittedly at times suspect ground interactions on fairways, that even a well-placed shot on a cambered fairway or pitched green will just not hold the surface.

 

Mike

[M Rose]

I'm actually not sure where the original data came from. I don't think it is LIDAR because I've asked for it for the other course there and have been told there's no coverage for the area. It was given to me as an unfinished Links 2003 course, which I completed, and then when it came time to design for PG, I converted it with Terrain Forge and made it one of my first projects. So I've never been 100 percent sure how accurate it really was.... I have seen the course before, but it has been 20 years now since I was there.

 

You aren't wrong about that hole... it does seem more extreme than it should be. I even opened up Links and played that one just to compare, and it seems less severe even in that version. If I knew how to lower the whole thing without compromising the integrity of the slopes that are there, I'd certainly think about doing so. It may be another one of those things where the dreaded "artistic license" may have to be employed.

 

I wonder if the conversion process is behind it. I did Royal Melbourne the same way and I thought maybe some of the holes also turned out more amplified that what I thought they really were.

[drb7]

I wonder if the conversion process is behind it. I did Royal Melbourne the same way and I thought maybe some of the holes also turned out more amplified that what I thought they really were.

i thought your Royal Melb elevations were spot on, it is more undulating than it appears on tv

[M Rose]

Beta of version 2 has been posted to OGT.

[shimonko]

If you wanted to do a rough check of the terrain height value, in Paint Height mode, shift click on a low point of the course to see its height, then do the same for a high point and calculate the elevation difference. Then do it again for the same points at https://www.daftlogi...nd-altitude.htm and compare.

[M Rose]

Finally got my new computer so I can work on it again. Mostly good except for some low FPS in places, so I'll try to do some optimizin' and then put it out. Ready to move on to new things.

[Charles]

Finally got my new computer so I can work on it again. Mostly good except for some low FPS in places, so I'll try to do some optimizin' and then put it out. Ready to move on to new things.

Just played this beautiful course for the first time. Congrats on a great design. This is a beast of a course too! I got clobbered on my first try from the back tees. Elevations are huge here and there. Lots of danger in all that beauty. Indeed, the FPS needs tweaking here and there. I'm playing with high resolutions etc and I'm getting 18-20 FPS on a couple of holes!! System is really dragging its feet to get a smooth view. I have dynamic skies on too ofcourse. I hope you can get those 'black holes' fixed to raise the FPS some. This course is fantastic and a real challenge!

[g3b]

Looking forward to playing Blackwolf. Just finished a few rounds on Kingston Heath --- great fun! Just out of curiosity what are the specs of your new puter?

Take care

g3b

[GoldenBear]

I want it now! 

[M Rose]

I was having a lot of trouble with FPS on the 2nd hole, especially at the tee. I did a few different things trying to improve performance in that area and they all made a very marginal difference. Don't really know what it is about that spot that is so performance heavy.

 

I had my LOD 1 set at 50%, then 60%, then 70%.... that only seemed to give me about a 5 FPS improvement. 

 

This is the worst performing spot on the whole course. Anyone see anything here that might be the culprit? There's places on this course where a whole lot more seems to be going on, and yet I get much better numbers.
 

 

The original course wasn't such a hog, so the only conclusion I can draw from this is that I might be using trees with too many tris - I've become rather fond of the large oaks and maples lately..... (and the trees were all kept equal.... by hatchet....axe.....and saw!)

 

My new computer is an i5 quad at 3.2 with 16 RAM and a GTX 1050. But I had pretty much the whole thing completed using the old machine and playing on medium settings.

 

Only after I've been playing the game with the new box has it become apparent just how sluggish the old computer was..... the game runs so smoothly on this computer even at the settings maxed out that it was actually hard to get used to; the three click is so much smoother that I was routinely hitting the snap too early.

[Goran JoeMen]

Played two multiplayer online rounds last night and we did not experience any ftp issues as far as I remember. It played a little easier now, or was it the soft greens we had? Used to be two digits over par on the first version, but around par on this. Have not played it since first release, it was too much for me then so my game must have improved

 

EDIT: Charles, ftp can be higher if playing with dynamic skies off. I always play with them off when hosting mp online, seems to make a lot if difference on some courses. And it is not like you ruin the looks or something, the course is using the sky the designer made for it.

[M Rose]

It probably plays a shot or two easier than before.... I moved up a couple of tees and eliminated some pin positions that were probably too steep; the older versions of Course Forge didn't have the BLI or degree of slope indicator available to us in the designer, so it was a guess. A lot more unfair pins would have made it through the cracks.

[NoPutt]

I don't see any in the pic, but I can tell you that there is a Conifer

that is around 9000 tri and can hurt FPS if too many are planted.

In fact, all of the Conifers are fairly high with all of the needles they contain.

Not sure if this is your problem, but thought I'd throw it in.

[GoldenBear]

" (and the trees were all kept equal.... by hatchet....axe.....and saw!)"

 

The world's biggest Rush fan here.  I love your usage of lyrics from The Trees.    Also as always a great job on the course.

[M Rose]

There are pines around the course, but not really any more than I usually plant..... I've got two mountain courses where 90% of the trees are pines and there doesn't seem to be any issues there. I dunno.... I guess I'll investigate further if it continues to be a problem.

 

@GoldenBear That seemed like a perfect place to slip that reference in. I knew somebody would get it. I'm a pretty big fan too... major influence on my drumming.

[GoldenBear]

There are pines around the course, but not really any more than I usually plant..... I've got two mountain courses where 90% of the trees are pines and there doesn't seem to be any issues there. I dunno.... I guess I'll investigate further if it continues to be a problem.

 

@GoldenBear That seemed like a perfect place to slip that reference in. I knew somebody would get it. I'm a pretty big fan too... major influence on my drumming.

Right on.  I have seen them 15 times live and live in Toronto, Canada same as Rush.  I never knew you were a drummer.  By chance do you have anything up on youtube?

 

About the course...I enjoyed it and also found it strange as to why I noticed some low fps spots.  The course itself though plays without any hitches.

[Charles]

I was having a lot of trouble with FPS on the 2nd hole, especially at the tee. I did a few different things trying to improve performance in that area and they all made a very marginal difference. Don't really know what it is about that spot that is so performance heavy. This is the worst performing spot on the whole course. Anyone see anything here that might be the culprit? There's places on this course where a whole lot more seems to be going on, and yet I get much better numbers.
The original course wasn't such a hog, so the only conclusion I can draw from this is that I might be using trees with too many tris - I've become rather fond of the large oaks and maples lately..... (and the trees were all kept equal.... by hatchet....axe.....and saw!)

I'm guessing but I would put my money on the trees. They are beautiful to be sure, but my experience with densely treed areas are that they can (not always) become a heavy lift on the FPS. I just played a load full of rounds on Pine Valley and there my FPS was between 40 and 80. On Blackwolf I also get some very good FPS, up to 70-80, but there are a couple of spots were the FPS hits rock bottom. If you want, I can play another round and make precise notes were the FPS drops below 30 and report back to you.

[Charles]

EDIT: Charles, ftp can be higher if playing with dynamic skies off. I always play with them off when hosting mp online, seems to make a lot if difference on some courses. And it is not like you ruin the looks or something, the course is using the sky the designer made for it.

Goran, thanks for pointing that out. I am aware of the dynamic skies option and that gets me around 10 FPS back but I never play with the 'skies off'. For me, the playing experience diminishes when the skies are .. well, dead. And to be honest, all courses should be able to handle this. I know I am playing with high resolutions etc, but up till now 99% of all courses presented, my machine was able to handle no sweat. I'm sure Matt would agree. Other than this Blackwolf is just superb!! I also really like the much 'appeased' river in the new version, as in the older one it was a bit.. mm.. much to handle. Visually that is. These waters are a clear & present danger already without attracting more attention!