33 replies to this topic

[Ted_Ball]

Here's an experiment...

 

Maybe we are looking at this from the wrong angle.

 

I would love to see how low you can score at Shinnecock Hills with the swing of your choice at the easiest level (Beginner).

 

I am trying to find out the limits of this wonderful game.

 

Verified by anonymous recording.

[Ted_Ball]

I haven't finished a round to upload yet but the part round I played was a 'real' challenge. 

 

I played Beginner Level; 12 Stimp; Easy Pins; Perfect Greens; Calm wind. I was 2 over after 5 holes (but came back on the back nine).

 

Sure, I'm hitting the ball dead straight but there were always bogies lurking. It's not easy to drop a ball on the pin every hole. A slightly unlevel stance or a small gust can throw the ball just outside gimme distance or worse. Then there is the task of landing the ball on the right part of the green. Shinnecock Hills has some tricky holes and some shots are hard to work out. Spin plays a big part. A great rendition of the course plus superb physics is producing some engaging, immersive golf.

 

OK. So I'm playing at the easiest level in the easiest conditions but there is nothing boring about it for me. Birdies can be elusive. For a par of 70 I would be surprised if I shot 60. Throw in some breeze and fast and hard greens I would never shoot 60. But I am having a ball because I get to play like a Tour player.

 

As I said, maybe we are looking at this game from the wrong angle.

 

I am of the opinion that it would be an interesting alternative to build the difficulty in the game from the easiest level up. That is why I would like to see just how low a good PG player could go. If they shot -10 in those conditions that is almost fair enough. Tour professionals are capable of shooting that well. The difference is that a PG player can do it consistently. From that starting point it would be easy to fine tune scores with harder conditions or other methods (such as taking away putting aids).

 

The point I would make in support of that proposal is that the competition starts from a level where everyone is capable of playing accurate golf. To be able to stroke the ball with accuracy is the way to golfing bliss. I would be disappointed if people weren't playing PG because they find it too hard at harder levels.

 

RTS-M is wonderful at the easier levels. An expansive flourish of the mouse, going into overswing has this real 'feel' without the despair of loss of control. At Hacker Level you can introduce shape with exaggerated path changes but still maintain good control while there is a miss-hit component to make it interesting. I was even developing a slight natural fade which comes and goes. 

 

Instead of toiling hard to get to Tour Pro Level with all it's frustrations wouldn't it be better having loads of fun getting better from Beginner Level? 

 

But even the best still have to get the ball in the hole at Beginner Level. I think people might be surprised that they can't go stupidly low.

[Ted_Ball]

I think I could be the only person left here. I'll wake up Jennifer Lawrence.

[jt83]

Wouldn't kick her out of bed but a bit overrated 

[Ted_Ball]

She played 'outraged' pretty well I thought.

 

I did a bit of RTS-M range work this morning with the tracer on. You can get a half fairway draw or fade at Beginner with outrageous path changes (and downswing speed). So it's there when you need it. You'll never get into big trouble. I detect a bit of movement from a 'bad' swing which is a nice little bit of off-line flight.

 

Hacker was beautiful. Just the right amount of control for a exciting round of golf.

[Ted_Ball]

 

 

This game is now "MySim".

 

It would be interesting to have a Trackman in the basement. It would also be good to have a basement (and some golf clubs for that matter). Apart from the obvious impracticalities of the 'sim' world and a glaring lack of money it is also a 'sim' that would only be simulating my horrible swing and that laughable head lift when I should be looking at the ball.

 

I want to simulate a Tour Professional's game. If I wanted to simulate frustration, despair, anger and loss of interest I would play at TourPro Level.

 

I see the controller issue over at OGT and wonder why a site would split a community any further by segregating levels and labelling swing types as well as BANNING a whole swing device. That's their business and they can do what they like...but I still wonder. If OGT thinks a controller hits the ball dead straight and thinks that gives an unfair advantage then fair enough. My approach (now) would be to let EVERYONE hit the ball straight and see who was the best strategist, the best tactician, the best course manager, the best approacher, the best chipper and pitcher, the best putter, the best controller of spin, the best wind player and all from a player base of big numbers.

 

It's not too late.

[Ted_Ball]

Greg Norman shot a lacklustre 66 which is only 4 under. Putter and stupidity probs.

I'll put it on the MEGA site somewhere.

 

After a few more rounds I'll play Beginner at Difficult conditions. Probably just a stiff breeze though. 

That should give an idea of the scoring difference between the range of difficulties.

[bgast1]

Ted, I'm with you. I play so poorly that even at beginner with all the settings set as easy as possible, I can't break par. Ever. It's nice to see that I am not alone in that respect. Over at TW08 people are always way under par. It was like the game was too easy for them. I could be under par also at the lower levels, but never in this game. I 3 click. Hard to get out of that habit. That's why that other game has no appeal for me. 

[RobV]

Ted, I'm with you. I play so poorly that even at beginner with all the settings set as easy as possible, I can't break par. Ever. It's nice to see that I am not alone in that respect. Over at TW08 people are always way under par. It was like the game was too easy for them. I could be under par also at the lower levels, but never in this game. I 3 click. Hard to get out of that habit. That's why that other game has no appeal for me. 

Exactly my sentiments, bg!   I get why people join ladders, tours, etc., but was never in me to "be the best" or compete to have the lowest score.   I enjoy my 3click, enjoy the level I play at and want nothing more out of this game but to have fun!   

[maxie]

 

[Ted_Ball]

When I started all those years ago I seemed to be following this unwritten rule that I had to strive to play at the highest level. There was pressure at OGT to move up levels if you shoot low and persevere with the harder levels when you got there no matter how tough you found it and how far from the leaders you were. 

 

And now I'm shooing -4 at the easiest level in the easiest conditions. If that makes me a "Beginner" or simply hopeless then there you go. But nothing is written El Awrence and the only thing I know is that I'm having a ball. 

 

It's so much fun to play a golf course like a competent professional golfer. It opens up a huge world of strategy which disappears when your ball is spraying all over the place.

 

As Breaker Moran cried, "Shoot straight you bastards". 

[Ted_Ball]

Ted, I'm with you. I play so poorly that even at beginner with all the settings set as easy as possible, I can't break par. Ever... I 3 click. Hard to get out of that habit. That's why that other game has no appeal for me. 

 

Yeah bgast - it's not easy getting the ball up and down on easy levels. The short game is pretty much the same at any level. Plus club selection for approaches is a constant question and a part of the game that keeps up my interest levels. The other thing is that it doesn't matter whether you use 3C or any other method when we are all hitting it straight(ish).

 

Who really cares if everyone drove the ball dead straight anyway? Isn't it better for competition not to have blokes farting around in bushes and hitting into hazards all the time?

[Ted_Ball]

I've loaded a 66 round at MEGA.nz in the NorthEastern USA folder / Shinnecock Hills / How low folder

[bgast1]

I was playing Shinnecock Hills yesterday after your (Ted_Ball) and I got to hole 10, I think it was and I could not get the ball to hold on the green no matter what I did, I was like 10, 11 who knows shots and getting nowhere close. I got frustrated and ended my round and closed out JNPG to play another day and another time. LOL! Now that some of the folks were good enough to list their favorite courses in another thread I have decent target list to approach without starting at the beginning and playing every course straight through to the end. A task that I doubt I will ever complete.  

[GoldenBear]

Jennifer Lawrence?  A big ewwww.  I will take Katie Holmes hands down. 

[GoldenBear]

When I started all those years ago I seemed to be following this unwritten rule that I had to strive to play at the highest level. There was pressure at OGT to move up levels if you shoot low and persevere with the harder levels when you got there no matter how tough you found it and how far from the leaders you were. 

 

And now I'm shooing -4 at the easiest level in the easiest conditions. If that makes me a "Beginner" or simply hopeless then there you go. But nothing is written El Awrence and the only thing I know is that I'm having a ball. 

 

It's so much fun to play a golf course like a competent professional golfer. It opens up a huge world of strategy which disappears when your ball is spraying all over the place.

 

As Breaker Moran cried, "Shoot straight you bastards". 

 

I am very pleased you finally have seen the light Ted.  I have been saying from the start that the skill levels are being used for the wrong purpose here and always have been.  The levels are meant to make the game challenging but fair for the user using them.  They were never meant to be used to put all on the same skill level or for the ego types who brag about playing higher levels.  Cheers 

[bgast1]

Hey Ted_Ball, are you using the cameras to aim or are you playing what you see is what you get. I assume you are not using any putting aids either. No grid, no break line.  Also, why a stimp of 12? I don't really understand what exactly the stimp is. Just played Pebble Beach. Shot an 85 with the stimp at 12. Didn't use the overhead camera either. Did use the aiming stick for driving so that I would have an idea of yardage. Tried to line up my putts without any helps either but might revert at least to F4.

[Ted_Ball]

bgast1

 

The object of this exercise is to see how low anyone could score at the easiest level. Because there's no way to police any restrictions I may as well allow all aids. It's 12 stimp for no reason other than it's mid-range.

 

My method for scoring low is to use all aiming assists and cameras. I'll hit the C key to get a better view of the putting line but generally default view, low cam. I use BLI here.

 

 

I'm getting down close to -10. I don't think I could go lower without getting stupidly lucky.

[Ted_Ball]

I am very pleased you finally have seen the light Ted.  I have been saying from the start that the skill levels are being used for the wrong purpose here and always have been.  The levels are meant to make the game challenging but fair for the user using them.  They were never meant to be used to put all on the same skill level or for the ego types who brag about playing higher levels. 

 

It's interesting GB.

 

It reminds me of my schooling. The curriculum was designed to squeeze out the scholars. It wasn't designed to catch my interest in any way. Well apart from that French teacher and that Art teacher. And so it is with formal tournaments here. They find the greatest clicker in the PP universe. Huzzah!  There is no sense of competition. Or very little among a few people. Fake competition could be achieved with handicaps but handicaps don't really tell you anything. It muddies things.

 

It's becoming obvious that it's too easy to 'place' the ball at Beginner level on the easiest settings. There's still elevation, breeze and lie to consider but there is a boredom factor. 

 

From that starting point of an UltraEasy -10, I increased the difficulty legitimately. I played as if it was a late tee time and the greens quickened and hardened and the wind picked up. It was still too easy to guide the ball knowing that it was hit straight. 

 

I had to play my latest rounds at Sawgrass in off-line mode. A lightning bolt hit a power pole across the street four days ago causing a blackout and I haven't had internet at home since. Oh, internet.

[Ted_Ball]

I played against a recording of myself while trying to reach the lowest score. Occasionally our drives would be within a couple of yards. We (?) would use the same clubs in the same conditions but the results were never relatively close. There could be a stroke difference if a putt was missed. 

 

It was a very good way to learn a course. You could 'place' the ball in the optimum position after trial and error and those spots quickly became familiar.