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Future of JNPG for Simulator Users


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#1 zmax - sim

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Posted 28 August 2019 - 03:58 PM

TM has decided to pull the plug on jnpg sim passes.
 
If your pass is active on August 31st, it will stay active till next August 2020.  Then the lights will go out.  This is unfortunate but it is what it is.  We have just been told yesterday 8/27/2019.  I’ve pleaded with them to reconsider but their decision is final.
  
We at OGT are currently exploring several very promising solutions.  We should have something to switch sometime in 2020.   Feel free to email TM about how you feel, but please be respectful.
 
Again, if you wish to use JNPG for another year, you must renew(Skytrak/GC2) or buy the jnpg generic sim pass(GC2) from the Pro Shop on or before August 31st 2019.  For those sim passes that are active or will expire after August 31, you passes will be automatically be renewed for August 31 2020 for free.  For JNPG generic sim pass users, make sure to have a working credit on file if your pass is going to expire before 8/31/2019.
 
We have made some cool changes for this upcoming Winter that you guys will love.  Next Summer tour is also planed to be available.   Keep up to date with OGT Discord chat for info on the options/solutions we will be working on as they come.

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#2 GolfGuy72_2000

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Posted 27 September 2019 - 01:56 PM

So now PP / Trackman are basically silencing all JNPG simulator users here on their forum? It looks like it's just the sim section, too, and not the rest of the forum. It's really interesting how they're handling this, because if they'd like to grow their customer base, they sure aren't working to win any new fans over here. And being that most of us in this part of the forum are simulator users, you'd think we'd be a great target market! Very disappointed in Perfect Parallel for not standing up for their loyal simulator customers.



#3 zmax - sim

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Posted 27 September 2019 - 03:34 PM

So now PP / Trackman are basically silencing all JNPG simulator users here on their forum? It looks like it's just the sim section, too, and not the rest of the forum. It's really interesting how they're handling this, because if they'd like to grow their customer base, they sure aren't working to win any new fans over here. And being that most of us in this part of the forum are simulator users, you'd think we'd be a great target market! Very disappointed in Perfect Parallel for not standing up for their loyal simulator customers.

 

Looks like the TM venting thread got axed.   Next time you look for a facility to do your fittings or lessons, think carefully.  

 

Btw, come to OGT Discord chat  :)

https://discord.gg/9yqFCBM


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#4 GolfGuy72_2000

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Posted 27 September 2019 - 06:31 PM

That's a great point, zmax!  And thanks for the invite - I've been by there once or twice.  Looking forward to what kind of alternative solution to JNPG you come with for us sim guys.  Good luck and thanks again!



#5 JCat04

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 03:18 PM

Looks like the TM venting thread got axed.   Next time you look for a facility to do your fittings or lessons, think carefully.  

 

 

I noticed that... shame, because it was a good thread, IMO.  I didn't find anything overly toxic about it  :huh:


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#6 Joe Habiger

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 04:58 PM

Remember Mike and Andrew are now Trackman people so there for they bend over, there is nothing Perfect and never has been Perfect.


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#7 zmax - sim

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 07:50 PM

I noticed that... shame, because it was a good thread, IMO.  I didn't find anything overly toxic about it  :huh:

 

There is still no official statement from TM.  OGT members received a noticed with 4 days till deadline to buy/renew sim pass.  There are quite a few stories like below....

 

7fGLzBX.jpg


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#8 GolfGuy72_2000

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Posted 02 October 2019 - 03:54 PM

I know we're beating a dead horse here, but I think one of the other things that's incredibly frustrating is that we paid $250 a year for our simulator subscriptions, and for that got nothing more than use of the game. Barely anything in the way of support or updates. Then they decide to pull the plug without so much as a thank you or an apology. Really poor way of doing business and treating customers.


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#9 Dropzone73

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Posted 02 October 2019 - 08:31 PM

I think worst thing was that you spend first about 6000 euros to build a simulator (PC, LM, projector, mat, netting, impact sreens etc..) knowing there is a simulator software you want to use. And all this is done just to hear that they will not let you use it after few years.

 

Software wasn't expensive (=very cheap) and the yearly simulation fees were acceptable.

This move however was unfare in every way. But fairness and honesty always win in the end.


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#10 Buck

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Posted 02 October 2019 - 09:47 PM

I still don't even understand what actual upside there is to TM to "cutting off existing users".

It seems like they are just cutting off extra revenue for no apparent reason.


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#11 GolfGuy72_2000

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Posted 03 October 2019 - 02:25 PM

I totally agree, Dropzone73 and Buck. I actually got on TM's website and sent them an email, asking something very similar to the effect of your revenue statement, Buck. It makes no sense. Given the simulator users numbers zmax shared in this post before it got truncated, TM is losing out on six figures' worth of revenue every year by barring future JNPG usage on other launch monitors. There's no way they'll recoup that much if they think people currently using a SkyTrak or GC2 are going to upgrade to TM just to be back on PP's software. Most of us don't have the space for their setup, not to mention the money they charge for their devices. There's also no way I'll ever get a TM after the way they and PP have treated us as simulator users, even if they offer a competitively priced product. The treatment and support weren't great before the announcement of the forthcoming closure, but at least we had good software. Now they just pulled the rug out from under all of us simulator users.

Oh, and it probably goes without saying, I've heard nothing back from Trackman or anyone at Perfect Parallel in response to my recent email.

Dropzone73, thanks for your fantastic courses! Hope something new comes down the pipeline that you can design equally awesome layouts on.


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#12 Joe Habiger

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Posted 04 October 2019 - 11:38 PM

But you are not the minds of Trackman, you have competing software use IN YOUR sim now and that's how they think. We shall now see at least $50,000 more revenue out of the 500 sim users who are now FORCED to buy our product and one hell of a F'in EXPENSIVE one at that.

 

I'm sure they have been thinking of this ever since they bought Perfect Golf but they just decided to pull the plug on it, a few thousand in sim pass fees for Skytrak, GC2 are nothing compared to (1) Trackman unit at $10,000 or more. GRRREEEEEED!!


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#13 zmax - sim

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 05:48 PM

A TM4 unit sells for around $20K.  Then you add $2k per year fee for hardware support and software updates/access (VG2).

 

No active OGT tour member is gonna go buy a TM4.  We should have an economical solution for our members sometime in 2020.


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#14 GolfGuy72_2000

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 02:58 PM

But you are not the minds of Trackman, you have competing software use IN YOUR sim now and that's how they think. We shall now see at least $50,000 more revenue out of the 500 sim users who are now FORCED to buy our product and one hell of a F'in EXPENSIVE one at that.

 

I'm sure they have been thinking of this ever since they bought Perfect Golf but they just decided to pull the plug on it, a few thousand in sim pass fees for Skytrak, GC2 are nothing compared to (1) Trackman unit at $10,000 or more. GRRREEEEEED!!

I for one won't be moving over to a TM, especially given how poorly they along with PP have treated the simulator community with this move. I'm looking forward to seeing what zmax comes up with!



#15 Andrew

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 01:29 AM

My apologies. I was travelling and saw some foul language in a post and tried to delete the one post and ended up deleting the thread. My fault and sorry there was no desire to delete the whole thread just the F bomb

#16 Joe Habiger

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 10:26 PM

LOL.. Foul Language is what your worried about, Look at what you and Mike did to this community!

 

 

My apologies. I was travelling and saw some foul language in a post and tried to delete the one post and ended up deleting the thread. My fault and sorry there was no desire to delete the whole thread just the F bomb


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#17 shimonko

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 12:14 AM

Yep, created a game and community from scratch that 10's of thousands enjoyed over the last 5 years. Bad men. They deserve to live on 2 minute noodles.

 

To me it is only reasonable that existing sim users can continue use given their large investment in time and equipment specifically for this game - but I don't know what goes on behind the scenes. I truly don't believe this is the way Andrew and Mike wanted things to go. 


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#18 GolfGuy72_2000

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 02:35 PM

Yep, created a game and community from scratch that 10's of thousands enjoyed over the last 5 years. Bad men. They deserve to live on 2 minute noodles.

 

To me it is only reasonable that existing sim users can continue use given their large investment in time and equipment specifically for this game - but I don't know what goes on behind the scenes. I truly don't believe this is the way Andrew and Mike wanted things to go. 

I certainly hope you're right that Andrew and Mike didn't want things to work out this way, Shimonko, and appreciate the sentiment. It's hard to believe something with reportedly six figure ramifications like this didn't come up in negotiations when PP was selling itself to TM, however. Both the lack of communication and the poor quality of what little communication we have received from PP and TM is really disappointing.

I don't fault PP for making more efficient and profitable business arrangements. I'm in business for myself and work to do the same. I just don't appreciate that it appears they've done it to our detriment as loyal supporters of their software for our simulators. I can't imagine doing something with comparable consequences to my client base, and then follow up such a move with silence. It's a poor way to operate, especially with any expectation of future credibility with an existing client base.

The eternal optimist in me hopes Andrew and Mike were shrewd negotiators and protected their right to develop new software (i.e., PG2) for all simulator platforms, relinquishing to TM all simulator rights to the original JNPG. But if by some miracle that is the case and PG2 is in the works for us, they'll be facing a seriously uphill battle when the time comes for that release, winning back all the people they've turned their backs on with this move.

I've been a fan of Mike Jones' work since his days designing courses for Links, many of which I bought and played repeatedly. I wish he and Andrew would show some sign of life here with respect to TM's rescinding of our usage to the PG software next August.



#19 Stingreye

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 06:20 PM

Yep, created a game and community from scratch that 10's of thousands enjoyed over the last 5 years. Bad men. They deserve to live on 2 minute noodles.

To me it is only reasonable that existing sim users can continue use given their large investment in time and equipment specifically for this game - but I don't know what goes on behind the scenes. I truly don't believe this is the way Andrew and Mike wanted things to go.


I agree. I understand stopping the sale of new passes and even a “this is past it’s support area so if something breaks due to windows we cannot fix it and we will not support users past aug 2020 from a bug fix /technical support stand point”. But to kill off access didn’t feel like anything Mike or Andrew would have normally supported. They have been too good to the community to block access to their baby. My guess is they were overruled by TM. Hopefully PG2 comes out soon and TM realizes there is no harm in allowing the sim pass to continue past 2020 but just not offer any ongoing support.



#20 zmax - sim

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 09:27 PM

Inital post revised.  and see below:

 

For all you generic sim pass users, I would suggest you remove your credit card from your Steam wallet.  It's possible that Steam might try to renew your pass when it expires.  It shouldn't but you never know.  Don't be the one guy that finds out the hard way....


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