60 replies to this topic

[flogster]

I'm with y'all on wanting a release soon. I haven't been a member here at the PerfectParallel forum as long as most. But, I've been waiting since I received the PP invite at LinksCorner, what 2 years ago, can't remember exactly.

Anyway, I'm willing to wait until "they" feel confident to release the best product "they" can.

And yes I want to be able to create riveted faced bunkers (sometimes called sod faced bunkers, sod walled bunkers and or pot bunkers). I'm guessing this might require the need of a "extrusion" function in the software.

[Acrilix]

And yes I want to be able to create riveted faced bunkers (sometimes called sod faced bunkers, sod walled bunkers and or pot bunkers). I'm guessing this might require the need of a "extrusion" function in the software.

 

As neither Perfect Parallel nor HB Studios course designer does them at present I'm guessing sod walls aren't very 'Unity' friendly!

[shimonko]

Unity can do them ok, they're just a more technically involved. For instance, unlike any other automatically generated mesh on the course I can think of, the pot bunker needs its stacked turf texture orientated so the layers are horizontal. That in itself is quite involved coding for anything but reasonably round bunkers.

[Richard]

I'm getting really confused, (nothing new). But is the intent of this topic:

 

1.  The future evolution of CF?, or

2.  The future existence and feasibility of CF?

 

I guess that I have to direct this to K-11, since he initiated the topic.

[IanD]

From what I've read, Unit 5 seems to hold some pretty nice updates and new features entirely.  Some where I've been reading threads about the support for 4.x  in the future. Guess wait and see. 

Mike has since commented that Unity 5 is the intended CF platform...

[dedBuNNy]

Well that kinda changes stuff... Vast differences between them... I'm assuming Mike is working with U5 as the beta is available to subscribers or Pro users. I know Unity is going to release the free version at the same time, so they say, so at least people will be able to jump right into the 64bit version. 

 

So really... If Mike is tying CF to U5 then doesn't matter if it's ready or not, it's dependent on Unity's timeline. 

[IanD]

Possibly.... yes. There is likely additional elements to CF now and Unity 5 may work better with those additions.

[Kablammo11]

 

I'm getting really confused, (nothing new). But is the intent of this topic:

 

1.  The future evolution of CF?, or

2.  The future existence and feasibility of CF?

 

I guess that I have to direct this to K-11, since he initiated the topic.

 

(Post 24 by Richard.)

 

 

 

 

1. To keep CF in focus now that PG seems to be dominating all the attention. You and many other private testers are doing a great job with game testing, btw, so rather than post the same feedback or agreeing with you, I fight the good fight of CF.

 

2. The future evolution, absolutely. When's the last you heard about that? I wanted to enquire about future plans now that for 8 months I have not seen any upgrades. I would really like to know where this journey is heading, what the intinerary looks like etc.

I am also a bit concerned that my current work might be rendered obsolete before its fruition, simply because new features and technologies will be required all of a sudden.

 

3. And, as you nicely pointed out the ambiguity in my thread title, there is a bit of concern regarding the future existence and feasibility of CF in there as well. I do know that it exists now, I just used it a few minutes ago. But the utter lack of any communication, the reticence or indifference to bring in new testers or designers who will use this marvellous tool to start adding to the course portfolio and the few technical issues that I know of***, can be interpreted, in the darkest corners of my mind at leas, as a discreet and discouraging change of heart.

The fact that every yokel who asks for the next update in the Forum gets an answer from a dev within the hour, yet that everything CF is being met with complete radio silence is hardly encouraging. I would never accuse the devs of malice or bad faith. I'm simply trying to get the message through to them that somebody better get around to start mopping up in the CF aisle.

Around Mid-October of last year, CF was put on the back burner, the latest upgrade kept back (the one that automatically plants hazard stakes), and the team decided to rush PG into EA. That is a legit decision, their call to make. It may have been reasonable at the time. By now it may be detrimental to CF - and to the enthusiasm and support of so many designers patiently waiting in the wings and raring to go. 

 

For these reasons I felt compelled to start this thread. I believe that the future of CF, either way, should be illuminated at this stage. 

 

***issues that I know of, know for many months and not dealt with in any way as far as I can tell:

• Free users of Unity can't export their course builds into the game
• Weird bounces (especially at WH), caused by I don't know what. Devs say they know what happens, are not bothered to do anything about it.
• Terrain Forge (formerly Terrain Importer) still in alpha. Going nowhere afaik
• Pot bunkers? 
• The capability of CF to export Unity terrain texture materials with a normal map? Basic stuff, this. Sorry, not possible.
• Movable Tees?
• Slope info to the designer when planting pins? Announced, but no hurry.
• The ability to copy-paste, move, resize or rotate a mesh spline? Yeah, one day, no hurry.

[Richard]

K-11 thanks for the comprehensive response. Your anguish seems to be what mine was, six months ago, regarding PG prior to my involvement in its testing. I was having serious doubts about this game ever seeing the light of day.

 

As a non course designer, don't have the patience, reading between the lines of the many CF related posts, I can't help but wonder if the whole Course Design process for PG needs to be 'rethinked'. It seems to me that the current attempts are trying to design something based on a 'moving platform', mainly Unity. I may be wrong, but when you started designing WH, Unity was version 3.?. Now there's talk about version 5.?. It's a wonder that you're able to do any designing with confidence.

 

I can't help but wonder if PP will have to design their own designer app relying only on the most basic Unity capabilities. If that turns out to be the reality, CF is probably a much bigger project than envisioned. Not good news for a small company with few resources. Only time will tell.

[dedBuNNy]

 

 

 

 

1. To keep CF in focus now that PG seems to be dominating all the attention. You and many other private testers are doing a great job with game testing, btw, so rather than post the same feedback or agreeing with you, I fight the good fight of CF.

 

2. The future evolution, absolutely. When's the last you heard about that? I wanted to enquire about future plans now that for 8 months I have not seen any upgrades. I would really like to know where this journey is heading, what the intinerary looks like etc.

I am also a bit concerned that my current work might be rendered obsolete before its fruition, simply because new features and technologies will be required all of a sudden.

 

3. And, as you nicely pointed out the ambiguity in my thread title, there is a bit of concern regarding the future existence and feasibility of CF in there as well. I do know that it exists now, I just used it a few minutes ago. But the utter lack of any communication, the reticence or indifference to bring in new testers or designers who will use this marvellous tool to start adding to the course portfolio and the few technical issues that I know of***, can be interpreted, in the darkest corners of my mind at leas, as a discreet and discouraging change of heart.

The fact that every yokel who asks for the next update in the Forum gets an answer from a dev within the hour, yet that everything CF is being met with complete radio silence is hardly encouraging. I would never accuse the devs of malice or bad faith. I'm simply trying to get the message through to them that somebody better get around to start mopping up in the CF aisle.

Around Mid-October of last year, CF was put on the back burner, the latest upgrade kept back (the one that automatically plants hazard stakes), and the team decided to rush PG into EA. That is a legit decision, their call to make. It may have been reasonable at the time. By now it may be detrimental to CF - and to the enthusiasm and support of so many designers patiently waiting in the wings and raring to go. 

 

For these reasons I felt compelled to start this thread. I believe that the future of CF, either way, should be illuminated at this stage. 

 

***issues that I know of, know for many months and not dealt with in any way as far as I can tell:

• Free users of Unity can't export their course builds into the game
• Weird bounces (especially at WH), caused by I don't know what. Devs say they know what happens, are not bothered to do anything about it.
• Terrain Forge (formerly Terrain Importer) still in alpha. Going nowhere afaik
• Pot bunkers? 
• The capability of CF to export Unity terrain texture materials with a normal map? Basic stuff, this. Sorry, not possible.
• Movable Tees?
• Slope info to the designer when planting pins? Announced, but no hurry.
• The ability to copy-paste, move, resize or rotate a mesh spline? Yeah, one day, no hurry.

 

 

I alluded to this in a post I made a while back. someone had no clue what I was talking about - Unless that changes or has changed already then there no point in doing anything with CF.

 

I'm not trying to be negative, just don't see why I would spend hours designing something that will never be used in the game and to be honest, it's a big deal. It was a major reason for jumping on the EA, the ability to create courses and have them playable to other members of CC's or events is a huge drawing card. I know that CF was never to be part of the EA so that's not a problem, but if there's going to be a huge delay on PG because CF can't be launched with the retail game well... I don't think that's going to be good. In saying that I don't think that the majority of people who are interested in and playing now are all hyped up on CF anyway, I think it's just a small group looking to use it. 

 

The one thing I don't get is.. Unity has said they'll support 4.6.x for some time so why tie the CF into 5 when really there is no definite release date or timeline on it? Surely it works with 4.6, so that can't be an issue. I guess though there is still the problem of 'free vs pro' as far as exporting and usage. 

 

I guess the next question is.....  How much of a pain is it and is it doable, to design courses outside of CF and have them used in the game? 

[Stephen Sullivan]

As it stands, I've lost all hope of ever designing in anything other than APCD ( Even in that I'm in a can't be bothered stage ).

 

I would however rather wait and use something useable rather than something with problems ( Had enough of that with APCD ).

[mcthommo]

Just hoping and waiting for CF to be given at least confirmation it will be released at some point- have a number of designs that I have had floating around since GBC that I would love to give a go but don't want to waste the time and effort in Unity if it gets pulled as it looks likely from my very far away vantage point

[Brucey Mc]

Have wasted a lot of time on Unity preparing for courseforge, have been looking forward to using it for over two years. Feels like it is time to put it all to bed and find another hobby. Enjoy the game but much prefer designing courses. Shame 😔

[dedBuNNy]

Have wasted a lot of time on Unity preparing for courseforge, have been looking forward to using it for over two years. Feels like it is time to put it all to bed and find another hobby. Enjoy the game but much prefer designing courses. Shame

 

Well wouldn't give up on it just yet... I mean if Unity drops 5 on everyone tomorrow, and CF is all but done and just waiting for 5 then maybe PP will throw it out there to use, sort of like the game is now. Testing in real world... 

[Stephen Sullivan]

Well wouldn't give up on it just yet... I mean if Unity drops 5 on everyone tomorrow, and CF is all but done and just waiting for 5 then maybe PP will throw it out there to use, sort of like the game is now. Testing in real world... 

I certainly won't be holding my breath for that 

[dedBuNNy]

[Jimbo63]

Have wasted a lot of time on Unity preparing for courseforge, have been looking forward to using it for over two years. Feels like it is time to put it all to bed and find another hobby. Enjoy the game but much prefer designing courses. Shame

Hopefully if Course Forge is eventually released using Unity 5 then your time will not have been wasted, because at least you will be familiar with how Unity works. My original interest in this whole project was mainly because there would be a course designer available and I will not be a happy chappie if it does not happen.

[M Rose]

I'm not going to give up on CF in general, but I have given up on starting in Unity without CF. Based on what I'm seeing here, it looks like it might be counterproductive. I've decided that I am waiting for CF to be released officially and am in the meantime concentrating on finishing any APCD courses I've started.

 

I am in the same boat with you guys in that it is really the designer that I am interested in more than the game. I understand that I am probably in the minority compared to the average and that PG needs to be made right for the near term. Part of the appeal is that PG looks and plays so well that there is a personal desire to see my own work rendered in this format.

 

It was always a concern of mine that CF was directly tied to learning an outside software program (Unity) which is a development I've never been fully in favor of since the beginning. These issues coming up are a lot of the reasons why. Unity seems to be a moving platform intent on shifting the goal posts and it also seems intent on shutting out the individual hobbyist by requiring a prohibitively expensive upgrade version.

 

I'm still giving the devs the benefit of the doubt, though, as PG has exceeded my own expectations so far.

[dedBuNNy]

Well what about ClubForge? Is that ready? I'd certainly like to make and then have the new Nike Vapor's to bang around with...    

[Kablammo11]

Well what about ClubForge? Is that ready? I'd certainly like to make and then have the new Nike Vapor's to bang around with...    

 

 

ClubForge will come right after ForgeForge is completed - a special app dedicated to designing design apps. It will be published on CrapForge, aka Steam.