2551 replies to this topic

[Kablammo11]

@KenR - welcome to the Unity free version water: No reflections, no transparency, no specular highlights, just a gooey gloop. CF doesn't do water, btw, so don't blame them for this. Better water assets for the free version can be bought at the Unity Asset Store and range from 15 to 275 dollars. For stingy penny-pinchers like me, this is as good as it gets.

There is an off-chance that the game might display the advanced water features while they remain invisible in Unity.

 

@Bruce. I own that club, so Tara can damn well park her buns and my bag wherever she wants to. She's also the club secretary, so no need to write herself a letter.

 

@Keith. The peninsula green will, given time, receive more definiton through bulkheads, same as the 18th on pics 1 and 2. It will be at the end of a 520yds par 5 with a tricky tee shot to a dogleg fairway on top of the hill in the back. A classic "go for it?" second shot, downhill, from 250 to 210 yds depending on your tee shot, with the wind helping from the right.

And yes, finding, creating, designing and adding good grasses will be one of my next tasks, though I prefer to wait for whatever the next version of CF will be - provided PP will still have me. Mike showed us all in his superb new Shadow Lands thread how important and powerful the overall "grassiness" of a course is.

[KenR]

K11, thanks for the note on water textures; I hope you are correct that water will be rendered better in the game than it is in CF. It is disappointing to think that unless a designer wants to shell out some amount of $$$ that particular texture is all you're going to get.

[Kablammo11]

No free lunches! Behold the Age of DLC.

[KenR]

Not complaining about "no free lunch" or DLC. That is the nature of things now, and I get it. But that water texture is something you would have seen in the 90's in a game using SVGA graphics, not today. Even if only one decent water texture is provided with CF, that would be OK, but there should be at least one. (And perhaps there will be ).

[IanD]

With only what I consider, a dabble using Unity and exploring the world of, I'm wondering if there is perhaps a better way of breaking down the things I'm notice are being asked increasingly more often.

 

Planting, Textures etc..

 

Aside from learning the vast complexities of what Unity can offer, the need for add-ons and trying to create something unique will only grow. It's in our nature to improve upon and consume... so with the freely available assets, they won't last long in the perfect world. Do we feel a need to begin identifying what's poor and what's not?

 

K11, any thoughts on what you'd actually consider spending regarding your course assets..? Spent anything already...?

 

I don't want to intrude too much into your thread K11, as I do feel it may be wise to take this discussion elsewhere, knowing it could grow quicker than the tree creator...

[Kablammo11]

KenR, once more, slowly: Water is a Unity job, CF has nothing to do with it. And the problem is not that we don't get a suitable texture, it's because free Unity refuses (!) to display the existing textures properly, switching off all the good little services that would make water look like water. 

I could do a lot more Unity bashing, btw. There are areas of it that I am really, really, really not a fan of. But the fact remains that imo the Unity/CF combo STILL is by far the best shot guys like me will ever get at designing a computer golf course - and that would include the HBS TGC course designer, btw. 

So it's everyone for himself and for all of us: sink or swim. 

 

IanD, so far I have spent ZERO cash on anything. And I most certainly will not consider changing that before CF and the PG game are on the shelves. Only then I will be able to properly assess if there is need for added cash expenditure to boost a specific area. I'm sure that - unless you are haunted by epic visions of golf grandeur - you will be able to design viable and enjoyable courses at zero cost (apart from paying the CF and PG price, that is).

For additional stuff like textures and 3D models, rather look for the community to help itself out - than at the Asset Store. I will help all of you if I can and share all my stuff with all of you - of course fiendishly scheming that all of you will do the same. Each one of us - alone by himself - simply must run into a brick wall sooner or later. If we talk about it with each other and help each other out, we might end up conserving our sanity and get some fun golf stuff on top of it.

[Kablammo11]

Me again… about that peninsula thing.

The drive from the back tee was "only" 275 yds or so to here, but it came from an angle and had to find a narrow, tightly bunkered portion of the fairway that falls off to the left and where lurking bunkers demand supreme distance control.

Now you have 246 yds left to the center of the green 31ft below. The wind is slightly helping and mostly from your right. You're thinking eagle… Go for it?

 

 

 

And then there's this:

 

This is the vegetation concept (mentioned earlier, be attentive), being implemented: Small but dense grouping of willows around Willow Manor and the the two ponds - a barrier of mixed pine and leaf trees loosely guarding the perimeter, and lots of wide places in between. I will plant just a few little pockets of trees, islands of greenery, into these empty spaces, just to add a feeling of dimension and to punctuate what otherwise will be rolling mounds of high natural grass, heather and gorse etc.

 

And here's how it plays out from below when standing on the 18th tee (138yds par 3):

 

[IanD]

Thanks for the honesty... and for the latest visuals.

 

Liking the look of that island green, but I'm not sure I'd bge keen to play it. I tend to play for the honest birdie.. rather than eek out a lucky eagle or dare I say it, the plop drop. And as we're unsure what or where penalties occur, it's a difficult design at this stage. Now, if it was 226yds to the centre with a 10yd drop, it may make me feel more confident about taking it on.

 

I think maybe you said it earlier in a different way perhaps, but without knowing what the game can deliver, we're designing courses in how we'd like to see the game deliver. It isn't necessarily how it will finish though. If the swing meter is that difficult to master using 100-110%, then we're unlikely to see long par 5's receive many eagles. Maybe that's as it should be... it's purely opinion. But most things should include a risk/reward element, so your peninsula is certainly holding it's own.

 

Regarding the Asset comment earlier, I have purchased approx 10-15 euros worth of trees so far. Like you, I felt the freebies were lacking. In fact, they were pretty abysmal, and whilst I feel textures won't be too difficult to share, I'm unsure what the stance is regarding sharing anything purchased, likely not good. Yes it was brash of me, but I'm after a certain look, like yourself and many others will, in ensuring how i think the textures will match the planting. What I'm also wondering, is aside from the actual Asset Store ratings, we have no idea how good any asset is. What it will look like in the final article etc.. and this was perhaps an area I felt could be offered by the guys here at PP. I also can't see (only my opinion) them creating a demand for something and not offering it.. no matter whether it is a cost option or not. This of course may not be something we'll see this year, and hopefully the inclusion of what the CF offers will be enough to satisfy many new courses.

 

As for your willows.. personally, I think the lighter colour the better they look.

[Kablammo11]

Not all freebies are lacking, IanD - though, I'll give yout that, most are massively underwhelming. But sometimes you will dig up something good. The willows are a freebie. All I did was open the willow material file in the asset window, click on the willowleaf texture to access it, double click to open it in Photoshop, add a bit more saturation, change the hue from green to orange, make it a bit brighter.

Let this short little tale illustrate to you that a good freebie, maybe spiced up with your own, personal "special sauce", is likely to give you more satisfaction (and players a nicer round of golf), than a rotten bought tree. It may also serve to tell you that even a freebie is not a "plug and play"-kind of thing. Ya need to tweak, adjust and tinker with it.

To wit: I turned, with some friendly help from Mike and his guys, that one freebie willow into 3 different trees yesterday. He kindly rotated the willow model into different angles along its y axis, so that it would not always look the same like a stupid clone army. (Unity doesn't auto-rotate the trees - another of my gripes with them).

 

Here's your bonus pic of the day: 1 mesh model (1freebie), 3 rotations, 3 different willows:

 

And here's the 3rd awkwardly educational little pointer. Need something? Ask around. 

IanD, I have no idea if you can upload your bought trees here for others to use them - I suspect you can't. And even if you could, you shouldn't. Doesn't feel right to me.

It's your money, and not my place to comment, but one of the really severe objections I have about bought assets is that you can't know for sure how they will look and feel inside Unity. They look all grand and perfect in the store, but out in the field…? Especiallly textures - there's no way to predict how they will behave. So, the proof of the Asset Store pudding is in the eating - but you must pay for the pudding well before you can eat it. I couldn't stomach that.

 

Patience… There will be quite a lot more tree models shipping with the forge. The perimeter woods at Willow Heath™ are made from 6 models which Mike gave us beta testers to try out. It will all happen, somehow. But never as soon as we all wish it would. 

[KenR]

Well, I'm not that slow, it's just not been that clear how water rendering works with CF in Unity. Thanks for adding a little clarification to the process.

 

I know this, I would be willing to purchase a small addon for Unity that allows water textures to be rendered in all their glory, but what I won't do is purchase Unity Pro for $1500 to get that. Not going to happen, and I doubt if there are many people who would.

[Kablammo11]

Yeah, bad choice of words. Sorry, Ken.

 

The water issue is the real "Elefant in the Room". It's not something the locals here can tackle and solve once and for all, it's too much of an Unity thing for that. But I would appreciate some competent statement on what the aquatic situation is like exactly - and what to expect and/or brace ourselves for. My willow ponds urgently need some solid ground to stop draining away.

Same as you: hell no to Unity Pro; maybe yes to add-on. But we do not know enough to even decide that with any certainty.

[IanD]

Appreciate the insight K11, regarding changing the colours on the textures of the objects. That seems another project to learn some way down the line then lol.. whilst quite familiar with Photoshop,it's the manner of trial and error and ensuring this catalog of objects has some backup to the many variations that are possible.

 

Sheesh, the whole world of Unity just got a tad bigger..

[IanD]

Here's your bonus pic of the day: 1 mesh model (1freebie), 3 rotations, 3 different willows:

 

And here's the 3rd awkwardly educational little pointer. Need something? Ask around. 

IanD, I have no idea if you can upload your bought trees here for others to use them - I suspect you can't. And even if you could, you shouldn't. Doesn't feel right to me.

It's your money, and not my place to comment, but one of the really severe objections I have about bought assets is that you can't know for sure how they will look and feel inside Unity. They look all grand and perfect in the store, but out in the field…? Especiallly textures - there's no way to predict how they will behave. So, the proof of the Asset Store pudding is in the eating - but you must pay for the pudding well before you can eat it. I couldn't stomach that.

 

Just wanted to add..

 

Your post above, highlighting the one tree, is exactly what I was trying to suggest regarding some form of "other area".

 

If there was another forum or site, that simply allowed us to experiment with things that could be used within Courses, then it would become a great outlet for those here. I'm not keen on delving too much into the whole Unity world of stuff, as that alone is a daunting search, and very off-putting to the beginner and inexperienced enthusiast. I'd like to see help along the way, at every stage. Having posts such as yours, helps. It details and it illustrates. If there were others regarding numerous trees, bushes, vegetation etc with results as you kindly displayed, it could prove easier to everyone.

 

I know I'm harping on without actually offering anything but type, but it's hopefully a direction many of us will push toward, allowing greater reward for everyone else later on..

[Kablammo11]

Need something? Ask around.

 

It's quite tough for anybody to guess what might be bothering you. It's also very difficult to explain

(1) EVERYTHING that needs to be explained - because there is so much

(2) explaining something to you in abstract words without you having a basic, hands-on grasp of Unity and the Forge

 

Tutorials etc will only get you so far. A dedicated forum would explode with threads and visitors would probably not flip down 8 pages to discover that their own question has been asked and answered 2 months ago, and ask it again instead. A step-by-step Vademecum could be misleading, because it would describe the buttons you need to push without letting you understand why the buttons you are pushing are doing what they do.

What helps best is commitment to trial and error, pushing through the pain, accept localized defeats, taking a step back, trying something else, moving on. There is also the mentor system - (Jedi Master-Padawaan-system for our younger readers). You would not be aware of it, but over in the private forums for private beta testers, Mike is kindly dropping hints designed to lead us onto the path of enlightenment. A very wise approach (I sometimes could strangle him for being so oblique), because no matter the amount of help we get, it's up to all of us to find that path and walk it ourselves. I feel obligated to follow suit with anyone of you who wants to learn something with this Show & Tell thread - albeit on a lowly level.

And finally, if you really, badly, immediately need an answer to a specific question and don't want to clog up the Forums with it, send me a personal message. Be as specific as you can if you do. I have seen from your pictures on the "set up properly" thread that you have progressed well and by now are beginning to understand what questions to ask in the first place.

 

Let there be no harping or ranting no more… Need something? Ask around.

[Kablammo11]

HEEELP! I can't stop planting more and more trees!

 

 

My rigid design principles are melting away in the face of arborial beauteousness!

 

 

I wanted predominantly barren grasslands, now it's a forest course!

 

 

I know what this is… it's the "too much of a good thing" phenom. Missed the quitting point. Must… resist...

 

 

Seriously guys. Too much? Somebody with unsoiled taste buds, please, tell me what's what.

 

[IanD]

Hmmmm and Mmmmm....

 

I actually like your planting, all except the Willows... which I guess, defeats the whole point of planting lol...

 

Is it me, or is there a little Harbour Town in this course..?

[Dazmaniac]

K11,

 

Like the forested look. Would certainly make you think off the tee and not just bash away with the big stick. I always find plenty of trees ramps up the course management aspect of a round.

 

Keep up the good work bud.

[Kablammo11]

It's you, IanD...

Daz, talking about course management: The last pic is a 335yd par 4 (15th). The bottleneck in front is 190yds from the back tee and there's a 15yd wide tiger line open, behind the group of trees in the left front corner, for all those who want to go long.

Of course, there will be forest soil added, rocks and grass… I have decided to stop keeping up the good work for today, walk away for now and come back tomorrow with a fresh head. I worship the motto of "less is more", but I do know that you always have to do more to get less. I will see in the morning if some thinning out is in order.

[axe360]

Definitely like the new trees much better then the willows, just something about those willows don't look right.. Go ahead K11, let your course evolve as you go... The beauty of building your own design, nothing can be wrong. So to speak... I bet you sometimes find yourself driving down the road and suddenly you have an idea for a gr8 hole.  Let it flow my friend, let it flow...

 

You are learning well young grasshopper but remember what Confucius say: 

[Dazmaniac]

K11,

 

Saw a nice Willow over on www.archibase.net (yet another site with free 3D model downloads which is linked to www.archibaseplanet.com)

 

 

They also seem to have a nice variety of trees and shrubs in their 'Gardening' section.