2551 replies to this topic

[Vader jr.]

Playing towards the Black Swan. View from the landing area of the 4th fairway over to the 4/15th double green:

 

 

At this stage I only deal with terrain contours and playing surfaces. Off-course textures, grasses and rocks to be added later. I changed the fog color from light blue to light yellow to give a bit of a dryer look.

And here's the double fairway for the 5th and 15th holes. Landing areas on either side of the central bunker island.

 

Good job overall with the terrain sculpting.

But I have a few criticisms:

1) The texture & color of your large waste areas (or whatever those things are) doesn't look particularly life-like and resembles something from an oil painting.  This is the biggest problem by far, aesthetically speaking.

2) You are blurring/smoothing the edges of your fairway/rough a bit too much for the level of jigsaw-like curves that you have in some places.  The eyes can't be fooled.  It creates an oil painting effect.   Casual curves can be smoothed a lot without drawing much attention (which you do nicely in many areas) but jigsaw-like curves draw more visual attention to the edges -- which are way too over-blurred (probably necessary to get rid of the jagged edges).   It only takes a few ruined curves to make your course look like a painting rather than a TV screen.

3) The large waste area located to the right of the fairway (in the bottom photo; from the perspective of the viewer) looks phony because of the super-thick dark edges.  I do understand that when the camera pans in closer the edges probably look more "realistic".  But from this distance it looks almost as though you were tracing that edge with a dark colored crayon -- similar to the way kids often trace dark edges around their pictures before coloring them in lighter.  It screams "phony" when my eyes reach that point.  If the edge was thinner (or less dark) it wouldn't look so phony.  You can't design your course to only look good from a close up view. 

I'm being honest to help, not to hurt.  I understand my comments will be ignored and seen as hostile, but that doesn't stop me from stating the truth anyway.   I say whatever is on my mind, positive or negative. 

I do like your attention to detail in terms of making grass blotchy and sculpting hills.  That aspect looks particularly good.

[Kablammo11]

You're not being hostile, Vader jr. - just a bit out of sync with my process. But to address your issues to explain...

 

1)

I agree. The waste areas need a lot more refinement. The textures you currently see were designed by me in 2D, based on the nature of surface I felt I needed. But now they must perform in a 3D environment and some of them don't work as intended. Thanks for not mentioning the texture tiling, btw, that will be dealt with, too.

 

Regarding the waste areas, yes, they must get their shit together. But do keep in mind that they will be partially filled with grasses and rocks and that we are nowhere near that stage. I have appended a waste area image from Willow Heath - I hope you can bear the sight of it...***)

 

My process - which is in no way representative, to each his or her process - is that I start quite quickly and try to get some contours and elevations brushed and combined with textures. Soon, the budding course will start to talk back to me and show me what goes and where certain things need to be adjusted. I plan to shape the terrain with my original textures first, then add rocks and grass and only then bring all the textures in line by exchanging or improving them until they look good. It's an iterative process, based on serendipity and on the firm belief that things are all connected and make other things happen for the better, given time.

CF let's me do just that. I can quickly edit the textures, change their tiling values, retire the useless ones and bring in reinforcments if needed. We're still a bit away from that stage - right now my entire focus is on the topology of the course.

 

2) see 1) blurring will be part of the big texture readjustment - also, I get to set only one blur factor per surface, from 0 to 1m. It would be great to be able to blur some parts and let others remain crisp. That's actually a good feature request for CF!

 

3) see 1) The deep edges will also be reviewed in time. But I do like my waste areas to look a bit like scabs from which you removed the skin of clogged blood. I reserve the right to go for what I deem to be best and must accept others not liking my design decisions.

 

***) the image mentioned above

[sirputterman]

 "I'm being honest to help, not to hurt.  I understand my comments will be ignored and seen as hostile, but that doesn't stop me from stating the truth anyway.   I say whatever is on my mind, positive or negative. "

Vader jr you seem to have a good eye for detail and know a fair bit about designing just by your comments. I think your comments might be taken a bit better if perhaps you used a bit more tact. I know I can come across as a bit harsh when testing courses but like you I don't do it to be mean but to only try and help. The thing to remember though is that every person has a different opinion on what looks good and what they don't like and that is perfectly fine. A designer may have a certain vision of what they want their course to look like and while you or I or anyone else may not like it, it is the designers  course and they can make it anyway they see fit. 

All I'm saying it is perfectly fine to state your opinion but again remember it is just that, your opinion. Again commenting on what you see and how you think it could be better is fine it all comes down to how you express it more then anything.

That is the problem with the written word, sometimes what we mean is not  expressed by the words and can be taken in the wrong context. 

Again I will say you have a good eye for detail and I'm sure if you use a bit of diplomecy designers will appreciate your  feedback.    

 

 

[Vader jr.]

A million magic crystals, painted pure and white  
A multi-million dollars, almost overnight  
Twice as sweet as sugar, twice as bitter as salt  
And if you get hooked, baby, it's nobody else's fault. 
So don't do it.  

Ahhh... Higher, baby   
Ahhh... Get higher, baby!   
Ahhh...  Get higher, baby!    
And don't ever come down.

Let us not forget the wise words of Grandmaster Flash and how they can be applicable to other areas.

[Kablammo11]

Meanwhile, back at the private institute for recovering drug addicts, this:

 

 

You're looking at the embryonic stage of the "Maze" - a gynormous stretch of fairway servicing holes 8 to 12. And those little bumps are, er... bumps, from the Unity terrain editor bump brush. After having sculpted the geometry of the maze, this is my last step of the terraforming process, designed to add a bit of bumpiness to what otherwise would be too flattish a fairway.

 

 

Perhaps this view shows a little better that the fairways of the Black Swan are not flat and even. They are wider than usual, twice or thrice as wide, but stray too far from the line and the bumps will play pinball wizard with your ball. That's what links golf is like, in it's wildest and rugged manifestations at least. 

So, onw smooth brush and mesh rendering later, the picture above results in the image below:

 

 

There is ample room for error, true. The idea is that players going for the percentage shot can bail out towards the interior of the land - but at the cost of finding a deep gully, their ball rolling off into blind shot and obstructed lies.

 

 

This might be a good moment to talk about the bunkers. Wait, no, it's not. Let's show another image first...

 

 

These bunkers should of course all be POT BUNKERS. Wait, still not good. Where was that other image... I just had it... what now?...Ah, here it is:

 

 

Dang! Not as good as thought it was... Still. I need pot bunkers! I need them yesterday. Some sort of extrusion feature that allows me to lower a piece of sand vertically downwards, creating perpendicular walls of peat around the edges. Mr. Mike Jones and Mr. Andrew Jones, kindly take note: POT BUNKERS! NOW!

They didn't listen. They never do. Oookay, awkward... Final picture photoshopped to explain the layout of the Maze.

 

 

More as it transpires. Toodles!

[droppedbear]

Kablammo,

Just wanted to pass on all my thanks for keeping us entertained here with your show and tell with Tara over the last few months as we have been waiting for PG. I decided to play my first round at Willow Heath and enjoyed the course a lot, so just thought I would let you know.

[Drgnslyr221]

Kablammo,

Just wanted to pass on all my thanks for keeping us entertained here with your show and tell with Tara over the last few months as we have been waiting for PG. I decided to play my first round at Willow Heath and enjoyed the course a lot, so just thought I would let you know.

Here, here! Great course. Though I put two balls in the drink on 17 to ruin my round. Love the castle. The pictures on here son't do it justice.

[Keith]

Gotta throw more props K11's way.  Played my 1st ever PG round @Willow Heath.  Shot 85 but truly loved the scenery.  Terrific layout that I will revisit countless times.  Looking fwd. to whatever else you choose to share with us in the future.

[Kablammo11]

Thanks guys, all of you. My goal was to create something that looks and feels different, still plays realistically, and shows the possibilities of CF without going over the top.

I will edge considerably nearer to that top with the Black Swan, I hope, while still staying on the good side of it.

[mcthommo]

K11- Although I mentioned it in another thread, I just wanted to let you know that I have had a few rounds on Willow Heath and have got to say what a fantastic job you've done

 

Pictures do speak louder than words but not as much as being able to play the course in PP- got to say that the best compliment I can give you is that it looks and more importantly plays equally as good as "The Masters" MJ's courses- that is high praise indeed

 

Cant wait till your next one, Black Swan I presume , and if this is the standard you are at at your first course, I drool at the thought (hopefully!) of your 5, 10 or 40th course which will be even better.

 

Thank you sir and on to the next ones

 

p.s. KB still sounds much better  hehehehe

[Kablammo11]

Thanks

[SouthStPaul]

I would like to echo the comments from mcthommo above.  Willow Heath was the first course that I played (after installing the game and hitting the practice range) and I have to say I was very impressed.  Having witnessed the progress you made over time building the course made playing it quite rewarding.  Totally immersive and reminds me of courses I have played IRL (yes, I have played courses with Castle themed clubhouses but none as grand as the one at WH).

You should be very proud of the work you have produced and I want you to know that your efforts are greatly appreciated.

Keep up the great work!   

[Kablammo11]

Thanks, SouthStPaul.

Truth told, I'm not doing this for you, sorry, but mainly to get a kick out of it myself. Still, if you're having fun with it, too, that certainly is a welcome bonus.

[IanD]

Yeah, I'd echo those sentiments from the guys who have posted too K11. I was a little concerned it wasn't 'as you wanted', but I do believe after trashing the course several times myself, it is as it was meant to be. You are out there, my friend, not only as the first course and designer (excusing the Devs), but as someone who has given a little bit more of themselves than they realised. Looking forward to what more you can offer...

[Kablammo11]

It's as well that it finished the way it did and under circumstance you are more aware of than others, Ian. The result is quite far away from my original visions, but nevertheless inevitable and convincing. I'm sure other course designers around here will testify to it that sometimes the course talks back to them and takes control of its own shapes and bends, indicating to them what feels right and what does not. I enjoy creating by serendipity.

And with Unity and CF we now have tools that allow us to retrace our steps and execute changes to individual parts without affecting all the others. And if corrections, alterations and improvements are being made that easy, that means that the process becomes more playful, spontaneous and experimental - and less linear, less logical, less forced.

So, Willow Heath is not "as I wanted it to be" but, as you yourself pointed out, it turned out nevertheless to be as "it was meant to be". It grew a mind of its own with time, and appointed me its shaman, not its origin any more. How fucking cool is that? 

 

Still, without the natural deadline that was this EA I easily could have kept on altering, adjusting and rearranging stuff for another decade or two. There is still a lot of minor stuff that irks me, but I decided not be sanguine about it, trusting the whole structure to be strong enough to endure the imperfections of a few individual parts.

Judging from all your kind comments, this seems to be the case. 

[JoeF]

I'll add my compliments as well, K11.  Really enjoy the course.  

 

Richard, I need a "tipping of the cap" icon.  

[Richard]

I'll add my compliments as well, K11.  Really enjoy the course.  

 

Richard, I need a "tipping of the cap" icon.  

 

Here you go Joe. I'm sorry, but it was the best that I could do on such short notice.

 

[Volker]

K11, thanks for Willow Heath course. Great design, fun and challenging to play. As far as I have seen, the only course with some other objects than trees and plants.

[NoPutt]

Thanks for Willow Heath K11, great design.

I know, short post for such a fantastic course.

It probably took hundreds if not thousands of hours to

get to the point of letting go of Willow. This post took less

than a minute, but the appreciation will last for years and years.

Thanks again K11

[Kablammo11]

Thank you, thank you...

I'll enquire about your appreciation again in a few years, NoPutt, just to make sure...