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Stimp 15 or 16?


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#1 frank70

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 09:14 PM

When i watch the greens at the Masters or at an US Open they appear way quicker than what we have with stimp 14 in the game. Is that only an imagination of mine? On some greens in Augusta it is almost impossible to hold the ball whem putting downhill. I never expierienced that in the game.

 

Stimp 12 - a green speed often used on the PGA Tour - appears to me a tad slower in the game than what i see on TV as well.

 

I remember (Mike?) writing some time ago, that there had been higher stimps in the game (15 or 16?). Could we test these maybe? I think in order to setup a realistic Masters or an US Open we need greens a tad quicker than we have right now. 


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#2 Sliceapottomus

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 09:26 PM

agree to disagree .... 14 is  about as tough as i would want it. as it stands now you can easily run lipouts off the green as i have in the karen tourney ... lmao actually 1 hole flopped up and over green while it landed about 3 inches short of cup. watched in total amazment as it slowly trickled off green onto fringe down and in a trap......aghhhhhhhh... dont ask what happened to my bunker shot... im not saying. please stop forcing harder settings on the majority I do not think that they need to be any harder... feel free under game suggestions and future requests to sak for whatever you want it is your right


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#3 DennisHarris

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 09:32 PM

I remember the 2004 Shennecock Hill U.S. Open.  The ground crew was watering one green in between groups to tone down a near unplayable stimp.  If that is the 15 or 16 stimp you are talking about I find that a bit over the top. 

In all my years watching PGA Golf on TV (1959 to now) I only saw the greens watered during play at Shennecock Hills.  I have no desire to play a course with a stimp that high and one the USGA lost control of. 

Want a challenge - play the 1959 British Open ​with greens that are taller than fairways are cut by todays standards.  Watch a Video from that era. 


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#4 Dazmaniac

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 09:33 PM

IIRC, it is Oakmont that is usually considered the quickest greens and it has been said they they slow them down for US Opens, lol.

 

In 2007 they were registering around 14-15 on the stimp apparently and even relatively flat putts were like putting on a marble floor. Augusta greens are quick, but it's usually the combination of fast greens (not quite in the region of 14-15 stimp) and the undulations that make them a bitch to putt on and become effectively 14-15 stimp like.

 

I'm happy for a few faster speeds to be added and think it would be safer adding new speeds than tweaking the current settings as it would just cause another shit storm should existing settings be tweaked, going on reactions to past tweaks of existing in game settings/properties.



#5 frank70

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 09:38 PM

Sliceapottomus, on 04 Jan 2016 - 9:26 PM, said:

agree to disagree .... 14 is about as tough as i would want it. as it stands now you can easily run lipouts off the green as i have in the karen tourney ... lmao actually 1 hole flopped up and over green while it landed about 3 inches short of cup. watched in total amazment as it slowly trickled off green onto fringe down and in a trap......aghhhhhhhh... dont ask what happened to my bunker shot... im not saying. please stop forcing harder settings on the majority I do not think that they need to be any harder... feel free under game suggestions and future requests to sak for whatever you want it is your right


I have never experienced putts to run forever - maybe i got lucky. It is just my eye-test. This suggestion should only be for Majors. Greens in Augusta or last year at the US Open were lightning quick. When we play the Majors at Ogt or at the PG social site later this year it would be a good thing imho to replicate these conditions. No?
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#6 frank70

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 09:51 PM

Dazmaniac, on 04 Jan 2016 - 9:33 PM, said:

IIRC, it is Oakmont that is usually considered the quickest greens and it has been said they they slow them down for US Opens, lol.

In 2007 they were registering around 14-15 on the stimp apparently and even relatively flat putts were like putting on a marble floor. Augusta greens are quick, but it's usually the combination of fast greens (not quite in the region of 14-15 stimp) and the undulations that make them a bitch to putt on and become effectively 14-15 stimp like.

I'm happy for a few faster speeds to be added and think it would be safer adding new speeds than tweaking the current settings as it would just cause another shit storm should existing settings be tweaked, going on reactions to past tweaks of existing in game settings/properties.


Daz, do you think stimp 14 in the game rolls as fast as Augusta or in Oakmont in 2007? I just don't think so. 14 in the game is pretty fast but doesn't “strike fear“ into me when putting. I think 14 in the game is pretty controllable.
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#7 Ricky Proffer

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 10:02 PM

I agree with Frank.  Not something I would play on a regular basis but for majors I would like to see a bit faster.  


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#8 JoeF

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 10:13 PM

Stimp is stimp.  It is the same in the game as it is in the real world.  On a real-world, flat green at stimp 14 a ball at a specific velocity will roll 14 feet.  If it is a stimp of 12 then a ball at the same velocity will roll 12 feet.  On a flat PG green at stimp 14 a ball at a specific velocity will roll 14 feet..12 feet for a stimp of 12, etc.  Apples to apples.  As long as the green elevations are spot on and the gravitational effect on a golf ball is properly coded into PG we're experiencing the same putting conditions as in real life (well, we might not have to account for grain).   :D

 

Just as a footnote the stimps in PG are extremely consistent across the board.  Hit a putt on a flat green at one specific power setting and the ball will roll exactly the distance of the stimp setting.


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#9 Dazmaniac

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 10:15 PM

frank70, on 04 Jan 2016 - 9:51 PM, said:

Daz, do you think stimp 14 in the game rolls as fast as Augusta or in Oakmont in 2007? I just don't think so. 14 in the game is pretty fast but doesn't “strike fear“ into me when putting. I think 14 in the game is pretty controllable.

 

Nope. Oakmont '07 was faster than PG's 14 stimp IMO. Courses where the greens are fairly undulated (like Crystal Pines) would be hellish with 14 stimp, but that would be solely down to where the pins are in relation to the green slopes adding to the difficulty.

 

Play 14 stimp at Hidden Canyon and it is more than playable.



#10 DennisHarris

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 10:48 PM

Stimp:  The Stimp is merely a 30-inch long aluminum trough raised at a 20-degree angle. A golf ball is placed in the crease of the Stimpmeter and released to roll across the green. The distance the ball rolls on the green, measured in feet and inches from the edge of the Stimp, is the speed of the green.

 ​I suppose based on the above definition of stimp a  15 or 16 would be ok.  I also have a choice to play or not play a tournament with a 15 or 16 stimp. I just think the more you guys press for harder, the more players you will turn off of the game and the more unrealistic the game will become.   Golf is not a game that is easy to play.  I get that.  What I do not get is harder difficulty can turn the game from a sim to just a hard video game.  But as we all know this is my opinion.  An eye test pro or con is nothing more than an opinion.  We will see what happens.


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#11 Golden Bear

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 11:16 PM

@ Frank70...  I love the idea of 15 and 16 stimp!  But good luck getting anyone to play it.  All rounds now in the online lobby are annoyingly at 10 stimp.  Heck, players will not even set 11 stimp.  So much for all this talk of wanting a challenge.  I do not see it when almost every round in the lobby is 10 stimp, calm winds, normal hardness, medium pins.  That is called the noob setting.


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#12 Greensboronclion

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 11:43 PM

frank70, on 04 Jan 2016 - 9:51 PM, said:

Daz, do you think stimp 14 in the game rolls as fast as Augusta or in Oakmont in 2007? I just don't think so. 14 in the game is pretty fast but doesn't “strike fear“ into me when putting. I think 14 in the game is pretty controllable.

 

Daz is correct as there are no faster greens than Oakmont and growing up in Western Pa fast greens were plentiful all thru the area and a lot has to do with under Mining which allows the greens to be very dry and slick most of the time.  Oakmont probably the hardest golf course in the world when setup for a US Open and the it would be hard to simulate that in a game.



#13 mebby

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 02:08 AM

Golden Bear, on 04 Jan 2016 - 11:16 PM, said:

@ Frank70... I love the idea of 15 and 16 stimp! But good luck getting anyone to play it. All rounds now in the online lobby are annoyingly at 10 stimp. Heck, players will not even set 11 stimp. So much for all this talk of wanting a challenge. I do not see it when almost every round in the lobby is 10 stimp, calm winds, normal hardness, medium pins. That is called the noob setting.


I agree. I play with 12 as the slowest and I enjoy going up to 14 every other round.

I hate slow stimps though.

I wonder, however, if most people use 10 stimp simply because it's the default?
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#14 Buck

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 02:27 AM

mebby, on 05 Jan 2016 - 02:08 AM, said:

...I wonder, however, if most people use 10 stimp simply because it's the default?


As mentioned elsewhere...be fun to have the options randomize with a single button press in the set up screen.

I end up playing a lot of defaults as I just get worn out even thinking about the set up options sometimes.
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#15 mebby

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 02:36 AM

Buck, on 05 Jan 2016 - 02:27 AM, said:

As mentioned elsewhere...be fun to have the options randomize with a single button press in the set up screen.

I end up playing a lot of defaults as I just get worn out even thinking about the set up options sometimes.


Yea, that would be cool.

Heck, just the other day I played Amateur level and had a freakin blast! It was very relaxing and fun! That last word is important!

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#16 Buck

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 02:38 AM

Very true Mebby!

I think the random button concept could even go into a "situations" type of thing.


Much like flight simulators have had for a long time it would be fun to be able to one click dial-up "perfect sunny morning on a desert course" with the conditions and time of day and a random appropriate course to match.

Or "blustery afternoon by the ocean" with any of a list of random courses that fit the bill.

Some simple meta data tagging of courses could slot them into appropriate situations for the software to pick from I'd imagine.

"Normal" users will really dig that sort of thing.

#17 granite00

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 03:44 AM

This game is supposed to be about options (swing types, wind, weather, etc.).  For those who don't want to play at stimp 16, choose a lower stimp setting.



#18 sirputterman

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 04:01 AM

I have to laugh a bit to myself seeing all the suggestions of the game plays too easy the greens are not as McCord stated that Augusta's were not mowed but instead bikini waxed(which of course got him banned from ever doing another Masters) the wind doesn't blow hard enough and unless there are is an arc floating down the fairways then it isn't raining hard enough. I think the "average golfer" kind of gets forgotten about.

Guys perhaps start a tour called the sadist tour. Have courses just made for the tour,set greens not at 15 but 25 replace grass on the fairways with concrete just to make sure they are hard enough. Bunkers not a measly couple feet deep but 10 ft minimum oh and quicksand of course instead of real sand. Oh and you have to use the opposite hand for either clicking or mouse swing. 

All right a bit of sarcasm here but if all the suggestions of "extreme golfing" were implemented to the "average tournament" then I think the amount that would participate would be very minimal. Honestly most of us hackers are not out to play a 6 hour foursome because each player has a stroke just from all the stress of trying to make a 3 foot putt that if missed will end up back at the tee. 

My biggest fear is that the game becomes so extreme that the only ones left will be a handful of like minded players. Sure I get some want the challenge of the toughest of the toughest conditions and like I said go for it by setting up a tour just for those that like that sort  of thing.  Us "noobs" as someone so kindly referred to those that are not  into such harsh conditions  will some how struggle along playing "average golf"

Heck why not set up a country club just for your settings that way you won't have to suffer mingling with "us commoners" ;) Just make sure your health premiums are paid up to date so that ambulance you will need on stand by for each tournament will not refuse to pick you up.  :P         


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#19 mebby

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 04:25 AM

sirputterman, on 05 Jan 2016 - 04:01 AM, said:

I have to laugh a bit to myself seeing all the suggestions of the game plays too easy the greens are not as McCord stated that Augusta's were not mowed but instead bikini waxed(which of course got him banned from ever doing another Masters) the wind doesn't blow hard enough and unless there are is an arc floating down the fairways then it isn't raining hard enough. I think the "average golfer" kind of gets forgotten about.
Guys perhaps start a tour called the sadist tour. Have courses just made for the tour,set greens not at 15 but 25 replace grass on the fairways with concrete just to make sure they are hard enough. Bunkers not a measly couple feet deep but 10 ft minimum oh and quicksand of course instead of real sand. Oh and you have to use the opposite hand for either clicking or mouse swing. 
All right a bit of sarcasm here but if all the suggestions of "extreme golfing" were implemented to the "average tournament" then I think the amount that would participate would be very minimal. Honestly most of us hackers are not out to play a 6 hour foursome because each player has a stroke just from all the stress of trying to make a 3 foot putt that if missed will end up back at the tee. 
My biggest fear is that the game becomes so extreme that the only ones left will be a handful of like minded players. Sure I get some want the challenge of the toughest of the toughest conditions and like I said go for it by setting up a tour just for those that like that sort  of thing.  Us "noobs" as someone so kindly referred to those that are not  into such harsh conditions  will some how struggle along playing "average golf"
Heck why not set up a country club just for your settings that way you won't have to suffer mingling with "us commoners" ;) Just make sure your health premiums are paid up to date so that ambulance you will need on stand by for each tournament will not refuse to pick you up.  :P


Your post contradicts itself in every way. No one is saying that you or anyone else has to play a certain way.

You are sarcastically bashing anyone that wants to play on more difficult settings as if it's somehow impacting your ability to enjoy the game.

Not once have I heard anyone lobbying for a universal change to the difficulty of the game. I've only heard people asking for more options that allow for more difficult play.

The great thing about options is in the very definition of the word...
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#20 sirputterman

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 05:48 AM

In case you can't tell most of my post was meant as  tongue in cheek thus the smileys. If you want to play those conditions have at it. My point was it seems every second or third post is about how easy the game plays or it needs to be made more difficult according to a few members.

I'm saying if they made the game play or tournaments all to this extreme then the likelihood of PP ever being played by the masses rather then a select few would probably be very slim.

Sure they can add more extremism in the future but I think there are far more pressing matters to get added first. Things like CF and better animated players etc will probably do more for boosting the numbers of people playing before making the game play even harder.

The fact that some look at  members  that play less harsh conditions are "noobs" as if that is such a bad thing. Some of us don't have the time to spend hours upon hours day in and day out just practicing the game in able to compete with these conditions. If you or anyone else  does then good for them. Joe hacker though usually wants to get a game with some friends and play it in hour and have some laughs while doing it. 

The fact is most of the green complexes in the game could not reasonably support such harsh stimps. It is not my idea of a fun time playing ping pong  back and forth watching a missed putt roll 15 to 20 ft pass the hole each time. Heck if that is fun to you or anyone else like I suggested start a tour or a country club and have at it. Sure choices are always a good thing as long as they are kept in perspective.             






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