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BARE - Base Assist Realism Events


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#1 Ted_Ball

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 03:33 AM

BARE - Base Assist Realism Events 
 
I've just been out on the course as nature intended. Completely bare. The feeling of freedom was exhilarating. No bizarre writing in the air drilling unwanted messages in to my porridge-like brain. Confusing me, deluding me. Away with you.
 
I have continued to pursue realism or simulation in golf games since Club Verisimiltude over at Tiger Woods Online. After my short-lived tenure at NAP I turned my interest to delving deeper into the possibilities of our current game version.
 
Almost immediately everything became clear when I revisited "Ctrl - Alt - U". I had used CAU while filming tutorials. The action turns off all HUD on screen. All HUD. All that remains is the aiming pole. I had considered CAU as a means to strip away the data that assists our game in that pursuit of verisimiltude. The drawbacks were obvious and I dismissed it until now.
 
The main drawbacks were not knowing the club you were holding and the distances. The other drawbacks may not be drawbacks at all. I'll explain.
 
 
BARE
 
I'll go through the components of the HUD and weigh up the impact of having each one disappear. I'll then show you the ways I overcome that lack of info.
 
THE FIRST TEE
Before you turn off the HUD you will stand on the first tee and have all the info available. This is necessary to know the wind direction. Once you CAU you will have to make an estimation of the wind direction for each shot on each subsequent hole. There's a simple trick that lets you estimate the wind direction for each shot. 
 
As soon as you have checked the wind you hit Ctrl/Alt/U and never touch it again for the full round (with exceptions).
 
Now this is the interesting part. Once you have CAUed you induce a form of self-discipline or more precisely, you help yourself to become self-disciplined. You will have no icons to click so you won't be able to pull up the flag viewer for instance. It's a whole new world. 
 
 
HOLE INFO
At the top left of the HUD is the course name, hole number, par and yardage. It's gone for the whole round. The course you know but you can get lost trying to remember which hole you are on. I would suggest printing out a card. They give you a card in real life so that's what I do in BARE. The card gives you the Par plus yardage and you could add any other info you like. So the first info at top left is not needed.
 
NAME, SCORE, DISTANCE, ELEVATION.
Well you know your own name but multiplayer might be hard to work out who's up. Shirt colors? No probs. I write my score down on my hard card and it really does take you out of the cyber world. I've had to think back to each shot on a hole to work out my score. I like the hands-on effect of writing down the score. I might get some little stubby pencils. Which shot number you are playing becomes pretty obvious. The sign of a good player is one who knows his score.
 
Now for Distance to the hole and Elevation. These are a couple of things you will get hot and bothered about not having. Your instinct after playing JNPG is to glance up at the distance and elevation. I still glance up a lot even though there's nothing there. Let's consider our options IRL.
 
The distance from the tee is on your card. For par threes that's all you need. As for the rest of the holes this is how it works. The caddy gives you a club.
 
OK. You don't know the club but you can get a fair idea through experience, through middle-scrolling through the clubs (reasonable solution), or just by looking at the club. So your caddy tells you to play with this club. My experience tells me some things. Swing easy on hard firmness. Club up in the short rough. Club up by two in thick rough. Etc. What I have found is that the caddy makes a fair call and I use a bit of instinct, a bit of local knowledge and maybe a hunch. Dumb luck helps. A chart for a hole could really reduce the guesswork as well but generally I was happy with his choice. With some practical exceptions.
 
Elevation is something that is a lot less important than you might think. If the shot is emphatically up or down you will know which one it is. Lesser elevation changes won't make a lot of difference to club selection. If you know the course you will be aware of the heights. After a few BARE rounds the accuracy of the HUD elevation info is overkill to me.
 
WIND
Have you worked out the trick yet? This method works well in the early morning or late afternoon. It would get a bit tricky around midday (I think). On the first tee you have the HUD open and you check the wind direction. The sun rises in the East and sets in the West so you can work out which quarter the wind is blowing from by your shadow. That pretty well holds true through the round (if you've got a shadow). In my fantasy world every day is clear and it's always a beautiful morning. Just me and my shadow.
 
THE RIGHT SIDE ICONS
 
COG
You won't need to touch the cog if you are organised. Out.
 
MAP
Ah the ol' overhead map. I'm wondering how many of you guys take a yardage book out on course? Don't mention GPS or some other mechanical yardage device. Quelle Horreur! But to be realistic a Pro or Tour Pro would always have some form of guide. We are talking about a professional golfer who has to be successful to be able to compete. I like to play my golf at a more casual level now and that means I can discard a yardage book or map and still enjoy my golf. It goes without saying that a BARE golfer would never use the F2 or F3 keys so aiming becomes somewhat problematical but, then again, not much more of a problem than real life. The caddy will point you in a specific direction anyway. A large percentage of your round will be with a clear visual to your landing area so your judgements are reasonably accurate most of the time. Out.
 
FLYBY
Begone. No-one is able to fly over a hole like that. Out.
 
SCORECARD
Done.
 
LEADERBOARD
Never look at the leaderboard. (Pro advice)
 
GRID
You....GET OUT! 
 
FLAG IN OR OUT
Set this on the first tee. 
 
HOLE DIRECTION FLAG
Not having this one threw me a bit at times. A wayward shot was a curse (and should be). But wait a minute. You've got legs. Just hit F5 and walk out of the woods until you see something to give you your bearings. The dude will not always be facing in the direction of the hole so it pays to be aware of your surroundings. No need for that button. Out of here.
 
CLUB, SWING TYPE AND STANCE SELECTION
Now things become a bit more impractical but never to a point where you can't play a shot without some sort of control. I've discussed the club selection. BARE could be subtitled 'Trust Your Caddy'. He doesn't do a bad job but ultimately it's your decision. A bad choice or a bad decision only helps to eradicate those shots in the future. 
 
The other thing you will miss and this is something that had me dismiss CAU in the first place. You won't be able to change between the swing type options. This is one of the few times when you have to open the HUD. The caddy will give you the right swing or at least a swing type that can get the job done most of the time apart from the Chip Shot. Sometimes you can be given the Chip when you have to carry a bunker. There might be a way to get the ball on the green with a chip but you won't have the loft option for a start. So in this case you open the HUD and change the swing and close it without looking at anything else.  
 
The Shot Shaper isn't there. You have maintained the discipline of never opening the HUD again. Now this is cool. Without the Shot Shaper you will still be able to use the alternative to fade or draw a shot. Changing the swing path or altering the downswing speed can be used individually or in conjunction to move the ball as much as you should ever need. It's an art just like any fashioned shot in real life. 
 
There is no alternative to lofting up or down but there are ways to get the ball up or down which follow the laws of JNPG physics.
 
LIE, CLUB, SWING TYPE
The only data left is in the lower right. It shows the lie, the club chosen, whether it a Carry distance or Roll-out distance and swing type. The only thing you'll really miss is the lie info. I make a guess about the penalty. Far off the fairway club up more, Close to fairway club up less. No problems there. Your result won't be inch perfect but how many times have you put the ball in the shadow of the flag stick from 180 yards out and in the rough?
 
 
BARE THOUGHTS
There is a psychological change in how you approach your round and playing JNPG. The sense of release and freedom is palpable. You are thrown in the deep end with only your wits. Slowly but surely your judgement becomes honed and more acute. It hasn't taken me many rounds to start to feel at ease making decisions (and living with the consequences). It's amazing in that you begin to realise that you will make a better decision next time you have what looks like a 50 yard pitch and you put it in the bunker. It is certainly a great motivation to get back out there and play another round.
 
One of the beautiful things about CUA is that you will persevere through your round and not be distracted by all the data and options and temptations - like replays - and your perceptions become heightened by necessity. As I said at the start when there are no icons on the screen your self-disclipline is easier to maintain and then you become attuned to the golf course.
 
I played Ballyneal twice in my first two BARE rounds. I've been doing quite a bit of practice there before BARE so I had a bit of local knowledge. I shot an 88 then an 80 completely bare. I went over to Medinah and shot 103 in my first round. I'm playing without any putting aids of course and had 37 putts or something. I went in the water a couple of times as well. But the lessons I learned from that round - distances, clubs etc. - helped me to an 85 for the second round. 
 
I'm excited about BARE. I'm loving discovering the little tricks to eliminate tough areas and lack of info. I'll post more tips as they arise.
 
Regards
Ted Ball
Club Verisimilitude

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#2 Arsam

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 04:19 AM

What an interesting experience.  I carded an 83 at Brandon Trails BARE.  I did not bother making up a scorecard I just played through not knowing what hole I was on or my score. I just used the club my caddy gave me and hit in the direction that I was set up at for each shot.  This is a very immersive way to play, not something I would want to do all the time but a fun diversion.  Good on ya Ted, I will probably stop back to Club Verisimitude again every so often. 


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#3 Ted_Ball

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 05:01 AM

Cool Arsam. Yeah I basically go out and play through. I get absorbed by the act of playing golf and not fiddling with cams and replays and all the other stuff. Sure you'll make mistakes - judgement errors - so it sure feels like my real game.



#4 Drgnslyr221

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 05:22 AM

The only problem I have is that IRL you have the yardage and you can feel the wind. Just seems like playing with fewer assists than irl. Just my two cents.



#5 Ted_Ball

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 05:36 AM

Yes. I meant to include that it would be realistic to have markers on or beside the fairway. Did Kablammo11 have markers on one course? You can always 'walk' to the fairway mark at 150 yards or whatever and the distance problem is solved.

 

The wind can't be felt but you are given every indication. A BARE request would be for visual indications.

 

That's right. I'm pushing this game to a realistic edge. Mainly by taking things away. 



#6 JoeBradley

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 07:35 AM

Intriguing. Thanks for the informative/inspiring post, Ted. Definitely going to try this.



#7 Ted_Ball

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 09:22 AM

That's the spirit Joe. Just go out there and play golf.

 

We've all got a 'game' but not all of us have the judgement.



#8 Stephen Sullivan

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 09:39 AM

That's the spirit Joe. Just go out there and play golf.

 

We've all got a 'game' but not all of us have the judgement.

Really wish I had the game, but I've yet to find a swing style I actually like ( I will never ever click ) and can play with any consistency


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#9 Tigers Agent

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 10:03 AM

more sanctimonious drivel...tired reading..challenge yourself.. challenge others to play like you.. yada yada yada..

get some needed attention.. vanity.. relevance.. tomorrows another day to start all over again.. just one mans humble opinion,, of course.



#10 Ted_Ball

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 11:02 AM

You are correct in so many ways Tigers. 

 

Anyway, you start to recognise distances by perception. Putting from about 20 feet in to 10 feet is hard to get the speed right. The 50 yard distance is tough but I'm teaching myself to trust my judgement and swing with confidence.


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#11 StoneComet

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 01:02 PM

Well,

 

Taking it to another level are we. I kind of play this way with the HUD but I must admit sometimes all that stuff is hard to ignore sometimes. Would be nice to have wind direction only, club type (no distance info) and shot type. You'll get some blow back from some folks thinking that you think your way of play is superior to all others. Thing is, to you personally, this is a superior way of playing and there is nothing wrong with that at all. No one has to play this way and certainly playing in this fashion isn't better for all. 

 

Some will just think your plain crazy to play that way and find it "very unrealistic" of all things. It really sounds like a great way to play by look and feel. To start getting the distances and power application on an intuitive level. Same goes for putting. Speaking of putting (the lack of elevation there might be the game breaker for some) it will take more time to use the camera to reveal any difference in elevation on the green. Time is the biggest enemy to this type of play. Only those that have enough time to put into the game will be able to play in this way consistently.

 

With all that said, you know I'll be using the "BARE" feature. I recently turned on the post shot again in order to at least show a replay of a good shot when recording but I'll most likely be turning it back off as it ruins my immersion factor. I wish you all the luck in your pursuits. One question though; Where do I find the application for membership to Club Verisimilitude? I bet you had to reach deep into your back pocket to dig that word up.  ;)


- We would be wise to remember that extremism is the real enemy and to keep ourselves aware so as not to become extreme ourselves; otherwise the enemy wins. -


#12 Armand

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 01:27 PM

I think I would miss the high-lofted, green-side bunker shot, so I'll have to learn to make the bunker shots without high loft.  I have played a few holes in the past with BARE, but not for an entire round.  It's not completely different from my current MOP, but the wind and club selection will get some much stronger visual attention!

 

I'm guessing my 85-95 usual score will balloon by 10 strokes or more.  There aren't many courses I know very well, having only played the majority of them only once or twice.


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#13 JoeBradley

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 03:11 PM

Hmm, just played a round in RTS-M in Pro using BARE method and I love the clean look of the screen - no distractions and more immersion. I got rid of grid and BLI and set the post shot dialogue thing to 1 sec (I had it on manual at first and wondered why nothing was happening after first shot!). I also chose no wind and an easy course (Golden Meadows) on stimp 10 just to start. Shot a 69, which of course I didn't know till end of round (five birdies - thanks to flat greens - and two bogies). Played some 3 woods/hybrids off the tee for safety. Toughest shots were the ones where caddie selects full shot where you know you would have pitched, or chip where you would flop or pitch. But luckily not too many of those and just played a half shot or whatever. Greenside sand shots I know by experience the caddie overestimates, so could make allowances and got up and down mostly. I did record the round on Shadowplay, but not much to see from a learning point of view. I like the idea of getting to know a few courses well, thus knowing how to play safe without top cams etc, and gaining a sense for distance. Was surprised how fast you can learn pitching distances from size of flag etc. Putting was OK since RTS-M is a feel thing anyway. Tempted to try Augusta with a 13 stimp just to see if I can break 100. Anyway, fun way to play and actually pretty fast on an easy course - took me just over 20mins for the round.



#14 mebby

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 03:25 PM

Really wish I had the game, but I've yet to find a swing style I actually like ( I will never ever click ) and can play with any consistency

We know... we know.  This game won't ever have PowerStroke so you either need to stick with Links and give this game up or stick with JNPG and give up Links.  Not trying to be flippant but you bring up this topic in nearly every single thread and it's getting a little tiresome.


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#15 JoeBradley

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 04:35 PM

Augusta on 13 stimp, calm, RTS-M Pro - shot 83 (would have been in the 70s but for a four-putt 6 on 17 and a 7-shot journey into the leafy unknown on 18). Augusta is actually a pretty good course to play BASE because you probably know the shape of most holes, the elevations and a fair number of the green breaks from watching TV. I like it! 



#16 Buck

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 05:05 PM

So is BARE mode on Tour Pro or Custom to make the swing have 0 assists?

 

(I feel like Tour Pro has one level of one of the swing assists if memory serves...haven't looked in ages)



#17 StoneComet

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 06:30 PM

First of all my views are from an RTSC user. Keep that in mind if you end up reading my wall of text. It's also just my opinion, please remember that as well. Some of you community members have been at it longer. I might feel differently in the future after possibly mastering Pro, which I am unsure if I am improving or not. That is a real issue from my perspective and I think it's more the fact that I play with a controller. RTSM users might just want to move on but there is something in here for those that play RTSM if your willing to read for it.

 

Tour Pro is not the hardest level as it still has a minimum assist for the Sweet Spot. I think that difficulty levels are something separate from not using the "other" visual assists. Pretty sure that is the intent. I certainly enjoy playing the game on Pro difficulty over Tour Pro. I think some folks have figured Tour Pro out but they seem to be a very small group. Even a smaller group of RTSC players have become comfortable , if I may use the phrase, with the Tour Pro level.  I'm not really sure, I could be wrong. Tour Pro difficulty should be just that. The most difficult setting in the game. The danger is making this highest setting so exclusive that the players that play at that level are a very small and most likely over time an "elitist" type group. At the very least they will be perceived as such by some. From my experience so far with a controller they will have to make some adjustments to make it more achievable to the public at large. I'm not saying it should be easy but the highest level from a business sense should be tracked as a percentage of the player base and find the sweet percentage that keeps players interested and trying to achieve the highest level along with a decent representation of the Top players.

 

The central issue being that most people will want to be able to achieve or play at the top level which is Tour Pro for now. It is real tough balance to reach for sure. Making the Top Level something somewhat achievable for a user or at least the appearance of the ability to achieve it in time. One could even argue that we have that already.  A player right now could say that they are able to score low so what is the problem, you need to apply yourself to get to my level. That is all fine and good up to a point. If only a very few are able to accomplish that level of mastery of the game then there is a business model problem. What I mean to say is, the game has been out for quite some time; How many people tried and tried and tried at Tour Pro and not only gave up but gave up the game as well? This would be OK if it was a one time price point for the developers, it's not. How many who really try are able to improve and stick it out and stay comfortable at the current Tour Pro level on RTSC. This issue becomes larger and larger as we approach console release in my mind. Are the current Tour Pro players satisfied with the size of the field? Would they like more Tour Pro players. Probably, but not at the sacrifice of making things a bit easier, I bet.

 

I kind of suspect the comment to which I am referring here  is kind of tongue in cheek. Basically implying, whether intentional or not, that it is not BARE if you use swing assists. I think I'd call that Bare Naked. It's interesting to see the ability to chose different difficulty levels play out and see how divisive the community chooses to become over it. I think generally speaking those that are not so active on the forums are OK with it. My guess is the developers are going to have to make a serious business model decision here when it comes to RTSC. I would not be surprised if the different levels of difficulty are toned down slightly in the future for this input method.

 

One thing that I am noticing, and it could be me reading too much into it, is the increase in what I perceive to be a condescending view by some players towards those that play the game below Tour Pro. This seems to be coming mostly from a few Tour Pro players. We will always have this kind of disparity with different difficulty levels but what matters is how seriously we take it and how we treat each other regardless of each others play style.

 

One thing I am really curious about is the RTSM crowd and how they might feel about the comments I have provided. I would also be interested in responses from RTSC players that play well at Tour Pro difficulty. Anyone's views presented in a professional manner are always welcome.

 

Well I hijacked the thread a bit Ted_Ball and I do apologize for that.


- We would be wise to remember that extremism is the real enemy and to keep ourselves aware so as not to become extreme ourselves; otherwise the enemy wins. -


#18 Buck

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 06:43 PM

@Stone:  Interesting post.

 

One thing that I think is frustrating for some as it pertains to difficulty levels is that not everyone will be able to play well at the most challenging levels of a game (or sport...or anything in life really).  Some people are just going to be better at certain things....always...no matter how much some practice.  We humans are all just different in what we excel at (or not).

 

May I ask where you've seen or felt condescension from Tour Pro players?  Perhaps you could link to some comments that showcase what you mean?  (I play TP, full disclosure).  

 

I can't say I've ever really seen that sort of commentary.  I think it's usually just a desire from TP players to mostly only play with others on TP so that things are equal and as competitive as possible around the same points of challenge and difficulty.



#19 Buck

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 06:51 PM

Re:  OP

The two BARE things I'd disagree with are, as highlighted already, in real life most do play with some indication of distance (and often it's as precise as what we have in PG) and definitely with a map/overhead you can check at any time (whether on a scorecard or on a cart/device or shown at each tee at least, etc).

 

I'd say that if the name is Bare Assists Realism Events then the focus should be on "Bare level of assists" and "realism" and...

 

1.  Swing assists should go (The bare part) or the "bare level of swing assist" should at least be decided and set (perhaps that's Pro?)

 

2. Being as close to how it is in real life golf should be the goal - That would be the Realism part and why I mentioned the distance/map information that most have readily available in real golf today.  Removing that is actually making it artificially more challenging than even real golf in 2016.  That of course is fine...but seems odd, as it's not really a "realism" event in that case.

 

Whatever makes the game fun for someone is good in my book!



#20 fishwicket79

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 07:26 PM

This bare stuff lol,concentrate on playing the other settings well before this nonsense
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