60 replies to this topic

[Davefevs]

highfade, on 14 May 2013 - 5:55 PM, said:

Andrew, I noticed the option to import crz files into unity. I hope the process will  clean up the mesh as well. My courses had some pretty messy mesh.

I hope all those APCD guys check this out and import them into CF.

[Dazmaniac]

Davefevs, on 15 May 2013 - 5:20 PM, said:

I hope all those APCD guys check this out and import them into CF.

 

Not sure if the PP guys will be able to offer the same for our TW bretheren, but there is the opportunity to have quite a number of courses updated within the Course Forge from the existing Links 2001 and Links 2003 course catalogue.

 

Some of the Hi-Res courses already look the business but I feel even they will be improved upon once they have the Course Forge treatment, with the better trees and shrubs and of course the water.

 

Happy days.

 

[Acrilix]

Whilst it will be great to be able to import courses from Links (and I intend to try), how well they can be reproduced in Course Forge will be totally reliant on the 3D libraries available. If a designer needs a certain plant, or object in APCD, they simply cut one out from a photo (sometimes taken on the actual course they are creating) and they have the object they require. Many plants etc are likely to be unavailable in 3D though, and this could create a lot of problems for some designers in their conversions.

Much like the original APCD objects supplied, I am sure there will be many American and tropical plants available, but it could be much more difficult for those in other areas of the world to obtain the required plants etc. that they need for their course. I would imagine that creating realistic looking 3D plants is a far more demanding process than cutting out pictures, and will be beyond the abilities of the average course designer!!

[Dazmaniac]

Looking through the guides and manuals in Unity 3D, there is a section relating to Tree Creation. The initial download of the Unity software also has several free asset packs available for download, one of them containing some trees (don't know what they are, lol) whilst there are trees that have been created by those in the Unity community and available to purchase, like Sycamore, Pine, Birch etc. it does appear for those with the time and patience, you can make your own.

 

http://docs.unity3d.com/Documentation/Components/class-Tree.html

 

[Acrilix]

@Dazmaniac - that's great news, at least for trees!

I shall maybe take a look at unity soon, and see what it can do, and what is available. I haven't bothered yet because of the uncertainty of who will have access to the Course Forge beta.

[Dazmaniac]

It appears that those that have a decent understanding of Unity 3D can turn out content like this (an Autumnal Nature Pack downloadable from the Asset Store)...

 

 

Here's another called The Big Environment scene 2

 

 

If some designers can crank up this kind of level of detail in their golf courses (and Course Forge allows this level of detail to be included), the immersion factor for me will be through the roof.

 

[rwmorey]

It appears the discussion regarding importing from Bing Maps is taking place here rather than in the comments with the video so I am reposting my thoughts on the video.

That video was neat as far as importing terrain into Unity but what is the next step in creating a golf course with the terrain? Is the terrain import we saw port of Unity itself or specifically part of Course Forge?

How "dramatic" do the heights have to be to show up on these import maps? I am interested in recreating a golf course that is local to me - will these data maps contain the sublet heights already built into that golf course?

Thanks

Rich

[Dazmaniac]

Rich,

 

From what I understand of what I have seen and read is that you can use the BING Maps and the Course Converter Tool to get your image overlay and heightmap. You then open Unity 3D to create your new terrain and import the golf course heightmap and then apply the image overlay, so you now have the course laid out with elevations. This is what we saw in MJ's tutorial - him basically prepping the layout ready for working on it in Course Forge, but instead of importing a BING Map heightmap, he used one of Links 2003 golf course creations - Crystal Pines.

 

Unity alone cannot create the course (eg. place tees, greens,  pins etc) so this is where Course Forge comes in and operates on top of Unity to allow you trace over your terrain to set the tees, fairways, rough, greens, bunkers, water, pins etc.

 

I cannot speak for how accurate the elevation data will be, but from reading other threads, the US DEM's are 10M and Europe appears to be 90M. Not sure of other areas of the globe.

 

I guess until we either get definite answers from AJ or MJ or start to mess around with Unity and Course Forge, we can only speculate.

 

[Sinewiz]

Daz: Thanks for the videos showing some of the capabilities of the Unity 3D engine. As if I wasn't already excited enough.

[Acrilix]

rwmorey, on 15 May 2013 - 11:01 PM, said:

 

How "dramatic" do the heights have to be to show up on these import maps? I am interested in recreating a golf course that is local to me - will these data maps contain the sublet heights already built into that golf course?

 

Accurate measurements are taken no matter how 'dramatic' the heights are, BUT....Bing map data is not going to contain the subtle features such as bunkers, green slopes, mounds, fairway undulations etc.

If you are in the US, 10M data means that a measurement is taken every 30ft, which means that only very general slope info is going to be recorded. For the rest of us, 90M, which is 98.4 yds is only going to be taking measurements at around 4 points along a par 4 hole!!  

More accurate data is available from other sources, especially for the US, but much of it comes at a price.

[garynorman]

Acrilix, on 16 May 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

Accurate measurements are taken no matter how 'dramatic' the heights are, BUT....Bing map data is not going to contain the subtle features such as bunkers, green slopes, mounds, fairway undulations etc.

If you are in the US, 10M data means that a measurement is taken every 30ft, which means that only very general slope info is going to be recorded. For the rest of us, 90M, which is 98.4 yds is only going to be taking measurements at around 4 points along a par 4 hole!!  

More accurate data is available from other sources, especially for the US, but much of it comes at a price.

 

I'm actually quite pleased about this.  Being able to drop a plot from bing maps and instantly having all of the elevations done for you would completely take the fun away from the enjoyment of course designing, in my opinion.  I like the fact that you can get the general 'flavour' of the course imported and then fine tune the rest of it yourself, as the creative process (whether re-creating a real world course, or starting from scratch)  is the reason I enjoy course design in the first place...

[Acrilix]

@garynorman - I'm not sure how much flavour you're going to get at 90 metres!!

I suppose it all boils down to what you find is fun. Being an ex-artist I enjoy the planting and texture work far more than the mesh creation. I usually create fictional courses because I also enjoy designing the layout itself, but if I was working on a real course I would want it as accurate as it could possibly be. My mesh skills on APCD have never been up to much!

[highfade]

Acrilix, on 16 May 2013 - 10:05 AM, said:

@garynorman - I'm not sure how much flavour you're going to get at 90 metres!!

I suppose it all boils down to what you find is fun. Being an ex-artist I enjoy the planting and texture work far more than the mesh creation. I usually create fictional courses because I also enjoy designing the layout itself, but if I was working on a real course I would want it as accurate as it could possibly be. My mesh skills on APCD have never been up to much!

Yes, strange. I just love working with the mesh, creating humps, bumps, slopes and hollows. No I know who to contact to help me with planting and textures.

[Acrilix]

@Dazmaniac - Had a quick look around at these assets for Unity, and it would appear that designing for Perfect Golf could end up as an expensive hobby if you want the choice 3D available.

The two asset packs in the videos you posted are $70 and $95 respectively. I can just see this creating a gap in quality between the designers who can afford the asset packs, and the ones who can't.

 I can see this forcing many designers into selling courses, rather than offering them to the community for free.

[Chris Perry]

With the way things are economically these days I'm not sure how anyone will be able to justify NOT charging even 99¢ to distribute a quality design, especially if you are spending more time with your computer than your spouse/family. ;o)

Let's not forget that PP has also set this up for folks to use their software to provide services to companies as well as enthusiasts. They won't be the only ones signing contracts for visualisation services if they are licensing out Perfect Vision to the general public to utilize.

But I'm digressing here... I had a thought today about he terrain importer, that it might be best used to import the surrounding areas instead of just the course area itself. Imagine being able to import Mt. Rundle as a piece of the terrain plot, already elevated and textured, and having it integrated as a part of the course like it is IRL instead of having to import it as a background panorama that looks distant and disconnected? You wouldn't necessarily even have to use it to recreate Banff Springs, but could use it or any other mountain(s) as a focal point or integral part of a fictional design as well.

Mike/Andrew: Can you import or create multiple terrains into a project and piece them together to create a unified looking plot of land? Can you import new terrains into an already existing course project to enhance it? Surely the Unity engine is based on working with multiple terrains put together to make one complete detailed environment?

[Dazmaniac]

@Acrilix - appreciate that the quality stuff comes at a price and like you say some folks might be not be prepared to pay for it or afford it.

Hopefully PP will have a reasonable offering of trees and vegetation and like Gary N had shown, we may have some folks in this ever expanding community who are willing to put some extras like trees and bushes together for folks to make use of.

[Davefevs]

Being a complete noob about course designing and terrain data I've been searching the tinterweb to build some knowledge.

For us UKers looking at real courses there are a couple of sources:

Ordnance survey. They do free 50m terrain data downloads. It does 10m elevation changes. Not sure how usable the data is, but I've downloaded 162mb of asc data. Wouldn't mind someone validating its usefulness.

Blue Marble - do LIDAR maps at around £30. That is too much for a novice who wouldn't make best use of the data, but you experienced APCDers might.

Hope this is useful.

[Mick-S]

probably missed it, but what version of unity will we be using?

[Dazmaniac]

Mick-S, on 20 May 2013 - 5:09 PM, said:

probably missed it, but what version of unity will we be using?

 

Mick,

 

I believe PP have been testing with v3.7.... but MJ has also stated there should be no issues with folks using v4

 

FTR, I have the free v4 installed.

 

[Davefevs]

Dazmaniac, on 20 May 2013 - 5:57 PM, said:

Mick,
 
I believe PP have been testing with v3.7.... but MJ has also stated there should be no issues with folks using v4
 
FTR, I have the free v4 installed.
 

Me too....although I have no idea how to use it yet!