26 replies to this topic

[slouis]

What I would like to see in a future update is making the flop shot more difficult from a fairway,  green fringe or  deep rough lie.  In addition the  difficulty should be increased even more if it is a downhill lie.  The possibility of a skull should be added with more probability of this happening depending on the lie.  In real golf I only try a flop shot when the ball is sitting up in short rough.  Adding the above would make the game more realistic when it comes to the short game.

[Sup?]

Umm... what level are you playing?  The flop shot is pretty difficult to pull off in it's current state at the TP level.

[slouis]

I am playing at Pro difficulty and use RTSM.  The flop is now my go to shot around the green because there is a lot less roll after landing compared to chips and pitches. 

[Taragor]

I am playing at Pro difficulty and use RTSM.  The flop is now my go to shot around the green because there is a lot less roll after landing compared to chips and pitches. 

 

Since the new build try flops on 3 click and come back and let me know if you still feel the game doesn't already do that. I agree that the penalties need to be increased for motion swing and rts though since they have nearly no penalty for them.

[shredspillers]

Oh joy!  We already have many in the game peeved off and now we want to make it even less fun to play.  The chip shots and pitch shops are not worth even touching anymore making the flop shot the only one with a reasonable outcome.  Make the flop harder and then all short approaches will be horrific.

[DennisHarris]

The short game changes made on 3 click are fine.  Flop shots are not easy - mainly because of snap miss penalties early or late.  Now the margin of snap error is much tighter and about right.  Be 1/8 of an inch early and the ball goes way short and checks up.  Miss late that same 1/8 and the ball is long and rolls a lot.  I like what is done to the short game. 

[✠ davef ✠]

I am playing at Pro difficulty and use RTSM.  The flop is now my go to shot around the green because there is a lot less roll after landing compared to chips and pitches. 

nothing wrong with that. I have used the flop on about every golf game I have ever played as my go to shot around the green

if you don't want to use it then don't. why try and change the game for everyone else. what is this the Burger King I want it my way game\

kinda selfish.

[worrybirdie]

Sounds like they need to make chips, pitches, and flops more realistic. IRL you only use the flop shot when the situation absolutely requires it as it is a tricky shot. IRL pitches and chips are much easier to control. If people are using the flop as the "go to" shot because they can get better results there must be a problem.

[frank70]

What I would like to see in a future update is making the flop shot more difficult from a fairway,  green fringe or  deep rough lie.  In addition the  difficulty should be increased even more if it is a downhill lie.  The possibility of a skull should be added with more probability of this happening depending on the lie.  In real golf I only try a flop shot when the ball is sitting up in short rough.  Adding the above would make the game more realistic when it comes to the short game.

I agree in principle. But then we have no shot left in the arsenal to play distances between 30 and 40 yards without 15 yards of rollout. Flop is the only option from the fairway right now wizjin zhis distance. I know, i am beating a dead horse, but: If we cannot get the pitch to stop a little bit more quickly (hop, hop, check) you are dead if you are 30-50 yards away and do not have 30-40 feet of green to work with.

 

Please give as more spin back for pitches - but in combination with a higher mishit penalty ( as is rightfully suggested for the flop shot by the starter of the thread)

[Taragor]

The short game changes made on 3 click are fine.  Flop shots are not easy - mainly because of snap miss penalties early or late.  Now the margin of snap error is much tighter and about right.  Be 1/8 of an inch early and the ball goes way short and checks up.  Miss late that same 1/8 and the ball is long and rolls a lot.  I like what is done to the short game. 

So tell me Dennis, why don't motion swing and rts have those same penalties anymore? Prior to this build rts/ms wouldn't go for flops unless absolutely out of any other options whereas 3 clickers used it all the time. Now rts/ms flop all the time as there go to shot because it is now much more forgiving for them while 3 click you have to be desperate beyond belief to attempt it. Flopping a shot while missing my snap by 1 pixel should pull or push the shot while keeping the same relative distance, not cut the distance in half.

[JoeF]

So tell me Dennis, why don't motion swing and rts have those same penalties anymore? Prior to this build rts/ms wouldn't go for flops unless absolutely out of any other options whereas 3 clickers used it all the time. Now rts/ms flop all the time as there go to shot because it is now much more forgiving for them while 3 click you have to be desperate beyond belief to attempt it. Flopping a shot while missing my snap by 1 pixel should pull or push the shot while keeping the same relative distance, not cut the distance in half.

 

What makes you think RTS/MS users don't have the penalties?  If your tempo is too fast you hit it fat, if too slow you thin it, just as 3C'ers when they miss the snap early/late.  We use it for the same reasons anyone would use it - the distance and short roll-out.  If we screw up we pay the price just as everyone else does.  

 

Perhaps RTS'ers are just braver than 3C'ers when it comes to rolling the dice on a shot.     Or more foolish.  

[Taragor]

What makes you think RTS/MS users don't have the penalties?

Perhaps RTS'ers are just braver than 3C'ers when it comes to rolling the dice on a shot.     Or more foolish.  

 

Because I've played MS since the new build and yes if you mess up your tempo it gets affected but that's the case for all your shots not specific to flopping. Hitting a 31y flop and barely missing early (maybe 1.5degree) gives me about a 50 foot flop whereas hitting .22 rather than .25 on ms will mostly push the 31y shot to the left of the hole rather than cut half the distance.

[JoeF]

Because I've played MS since the new build and yes if you mess up your tempo it gets affected but that's the case for all your shots not specific to flopping. Hitting a 31y flop and barely missing early (maybe 1.5degree) gives me about a 50 foot flop whereas hitting .22 rather than .25 on ms will mostly push the 31y shot to the left of the hole rather than cut half the distance.

 

Odd, at Tour Pro I need a 4 degree miss to the left to get a 50ft flop with a 56W.  1.5 degrees would get me in the 80 ft. range.  With RTS the distance penalty is definitely less but the offline seems to be somewhat greater than 3C.  

[Taragor]

Odd, at Tour Pro I need a 4 degree miss to the left to get a 50ft flop with a 56W.  1.5 degrees would get me in the 80 ft. range.  With RTS the distance penalty is definitely less but the offline seems to be somewhat greater than 3C.  

I'm referring to carry distance not total distance. The game does pull/push the ball more on rts/ms than it does on 3C which might

be why they've increased the distance penalty. In all honesty though I'd prefer being offline

[klmax]

flop shots rule this game

[frank70]

So tell me Dennis, why don't motion swing and rts have those same penalties anymore? Prior to this build rts/ms wouldn't go for flops unless absolutely out of any other options whereas 3 clickers used it all the time. Now rts/ms flop all the time as there go to shot because it is now much more forgiving for them while 3 click you have to be desperate beyond belief to attempt it. Flopping a shot while missing my snap by 1 pixel should pull or push the shot while keeping the same relative distance, not cut the distance in half.

I think you have to have the big picture in mind as well. Look at the leaderboards at the Tour Pro level: The Top 10 is crowded by 3-clickers and RTS-C-players. If you make RTS-M even harder you won't see any RTS-M-players there. RTS-M all in all seems to be the most difficult swing method. Otherwise there would be more players playing on Tour Pro.

 

3-click per se has a lot of advantages. First of all: You have the meter (a rather slow meter). Distance control is way easier with a meter than with an animation. And you "only" have to concentrate on the meter - you don't have to simultaneously watch the animation, have the rhythm (0.25 ratio) in mind, and make sure that you move your mouse on the same path forward as you have pulled it back (swing plane). There are quite a few 3-clickers that are scrambling with over 80% at Tour Pro. The scrambling stats of the best 3-clickers are in the same ballpark of players that are using other swing methods. So after all, it doesn't seem to be too hard. Or the balance of difficulty is not in favour of non-clickers.

[DennisHarris]

So tell me Dennis, why don't motion swing and rts have those same penalties anymore? Prior to this build rts/ms wouldn't go for flops unless absolutely out of any other options whereas 3 clickers used it all the time. Now rts/ms flop all the time as there go to shot because it is now much more forgiving for them while 3 click you have to be desperate beyond belief to attempt it. Flopping a shot while missing my snap by 1 pixel should pull or push the shot while keeping the same relative distance, not cut the distance in half.

(Because it is motion swing and rts).    I have no idea Taragor!    3-click has a lot of advantages according to Frank70.  I'll simply say I play 3-click by choice.  Other players play MS and RTS by choice. 

So we deal with it and stop bitching about 3-click good and bad compared to other swing types..   Don't worry about what MS and RTS has or has not. I can't say and don't care one way or the other about MS or RTS.  It is what it is.

Swing type comparisons are like apples and oranges.  Long live 3-click! 

[frank70]

(Because it is motion swing and rts).    I have no idea Taragor!    3-click has a lot of advantages according to Frank70.  I'll simply say I play 3-click by choice.  Other players play MS and RTS by choice. 

So we deal with it and stop the bitching about 3-click good and bad.   Don't worry about what MS and RTS has or has not. I can't say and don't care one way or the other what  MS or RTS has or does not have.   It is what it is.

Swing type comparisons are like apples and oranges.  Long live 3-click! 

It seems like the flop is easier with RTS-M or MS. But the overall scores suggest that 3-click hasn't gotten the short stick by any means - the best players in the game use 3-click, so it seems that the overall difficulty of 3-click shouldn't be reduced (long game was made easier in the last update). That was my point. 

[DennisHarris]

It seems like the flop is easier with RTS-M or MS. But the overall scores suggest that 3-click hasn't gotten the short stick by any means - the best players in the game use 3-click, so it seems that the overall difficulty of 3-click shouldn't be reduced (long game was made easier in the last update). That was my point. 

That is PP who made the 3 click change Frank.  I am sure PP has and will make changes to any swing type when they think something is out of line.   Who knows what changes will be made in the future.  I am not going to say one swing type is easier than another.  They are what they are.  The players choice.    And that is my point.

[Taragor]

I think you have to have the big picture in mind as well. Look at the leaderboards at the Tour Pro level: The Top 10 is crowded by 3-clickers and RTS-C-players. If you make RTS-M even harder you won't see any RTS-M-players there. RTS-M all in all seems to be the most difficult swing method. Otherwise there would be more players playing on Tour Pro.

 

3-click per se has a lot of advantages. First of all: You have the meter (a rather slow meter). Distance control is way easier with a meter than with an animation. And you "only" have to concentrate on the meter - you don't have to simultaneously watch the animation, have the rhythm (0.25 ratio) in mind, and make sure that you move your mouse on the same path forward as you have pulled it back (swing plane). There are quite a few 3-clickers that are scrambling with over 80% at Tour Pro. The scrambling stats of the best 3-clickers are in the same ballpark of players that are using other swing methods. So after all, it doesn't seem to be too hard. Or the balance of difficulty is not in favour of non-clickers.

Interesting that you consider the meter slow, obviously if you hit a full shot it lasts longer but trying to putt/pitch/chip at 25% gives you about 1 second to click distance than 1 sec to click snap.

Then consider how thin that snap line is (The line is actually thinner than the tip of the pointer if you play pointer)

Saying that the top of the ladder is mostly 3 clickers and RTS-C is disingenuous as there's only 3 RTS-M that play at tour pro level.

BTW at no time did I say RTS should be harder, I said they need to rethink the penalty they added with the last build to the short game for 3 click. Also putting is a disadvantage as a 3 click since you really need to mess up to hit a putt offline in RTS and now in MS whereas missing that pixel at 10 feet or more you miss a dead flat putt on 3 click. Luckily those flat putts are rarer these days with the courses.