22 replies to this topic

[Charles]

Watching the different video's on PG (looking magnificent!!!  ), I noticed the camera following the ball and moving with the ball right up to the bounces on the ground and roll?   This surprises me. After watching it a couple of times I found this not only irritating but also not realistic at all. Why isn't there a fixed camera on the receiving end of a shot? Or am I missing something? Or are there other camera options maybe? Can somebody explain what's happening in this department and what the plans are regarding the different camera options please? I sure hope I'm going to get the same ball physics AND camera options as in Links? Probably even better?...

[Kablammo11]

The problem is known and has been discussed during testing. The reason for this are current technical difficulties and real time physics, i.e. the fact that the ball behaviour is calculated as it happens and that the game does not know ahead of time what the terrain will do to it (in other games, the game always knows in advance where the ball will end up and uses animation loops to propell the ball to its pre-determined destination) In PG, the terrain interaction is simulated scrupulously - hence the challenge of placing a camera somewhere ahead without knowing if it can see something of the ball at all. This makes it necessary for the cameras to track the ball and follow every hop. It also makes camera placement in general a bit harder than usual.

Between you, me and the garden fence, my eyes by now got used to this and I does not register as a grave problem any more. A couple of hours into the game you will probably have grown accustomed to this as well.

 

A solution will be found, in time. Until then ask yourself if you'd rather have a go at the game "as is", unpolished and with some rough edges, by next friday, or if you'd rather wait another six months until this and other issues have been dealt with. Understand that early access is to a work in progress, not a finished game. 

[dedBuNNy]

The problem is known and has been discussed during testing. The reason for this are current technical difficulties and real time physics, i.e. the fact that the ball behaviour is calculated as it happens and that the game does not know ahead of time what the terrain will do to it (in other games, the game always knows in advance where the ball will end up and uses animation loops to propell the ball to its pre-determined destination) In PG, the terrain interaction is simulated scrupulously - hence the challenge of placing a camera somewhere ahead without knowing if it can see something of the ball at all. This makes it necessary for the cameras to track the ball and follow every hop. It also makes camera placement in general a bit harder than usual.

Between you, me and the garden fence, my eyes by now got used to this and I does not register as a grave problem any more. A couple of hours into the game you will probably have grown accustomed to this as well.

 

A solution will be found, in time. Until then ask yourself if you'd rather have a go at the game "as is", unpolished and with some rough edges, by next friday, or if you'd rather wait another six months until this and other issues have been dealt with. Understand that early access is to a work in progress, not a finished game. 

 

That's !! Quite enough of that talk ! !  

[Mike Jones]

To some people it's a problem to others it's not. We are looking at ways of smoothing ball movement view but as we run real time emergent physics we don't know where the ball will end up as it's not pre-calculated. A static camera just isn't going to work as the ball will most likely shoot past it and out of view.

[Dazmaniac]

MJ,

 

Know we have discussed this in testing until all the meat has fell off the bone.

 

Forgetting all the follow and dynamic cams we currently have, but if there were two static camera options.

 

One behind the player at the address position, so the ball flies off when he hits it and remains there, like the Links 2003 player cam but without the screen movement as it tracks the balls position.

 

A second behind each green, like a fixed TV cam tower view, focused on the pin and green as a whole and the ball just enters this field of view with the camera shot remaining static. If the ball flies/rolls out of view, then so be it, it sometimes does on real TV broadcasts. I also think the Links 2003 Pin Cam works like this.

 

In reality, I can be 200+ yds away from where my ball ends up on/around the green, so I haven't had the birdseye green cam view of what has happened. Having the ball roll out of view of a static camera view isn't going to irk me one bit. I actually think personally I would grow to like it, as just because the camera is focused on the pin/green is no guarantee your ball will end up there.

 

[Mike Jones]

 If the ball flies/rolls out of view, then so be it, it sometimes does on real TV broadcasts,

 

 

They do have cameramen tracking the ball though, they don't just stick the camera down and go for a cup of coffee

[Dazmaniac]

They do have cameramen tracking the ball though, they don't just stick the camera down and go for a cup of coffee

 

So would PG.

 

I'm not saying replace the cameras we have mow, just offer a few extra options, of the static view variety.

 

If folks want to continue with the existing ones, more power to them.

 

[Kablammo11]

Should I add my 2 milion cents here? Guys, keep it internal for one more week.

To the outsiders: Yes, this is an intense topic that keeps popping up regularly, as it should, because it needs a bit more work imo. I'm sure that early access will become a relevant plebiscite for this and other issues of contention. Camera positions are one heck of an important thing (ball visibility being another, connected one) and they must improve. I have no doubt that they will.

Again: Work in progress.

[Charles]

To all, thanks for the replies and explanations. I understand. Playing myself in RTS-Elite in Links, I am used to hit balls with only the player cam behind me and not having any fixed camera on the receiving end. That, for me, also playing the real game out there, has always been the most rewarding experience playing Links.

 

In Links, I do have a small extra (fixed) cam in the right top of my screen, which only shows the view from the back of the green. Sometimes, when I hit approach shots which dont come off as planned, I dont see the ball landing either in this little cam. Actually, to be honest, this greenside cam is also a bit of a cheat as, in real life, we dont have that either ofcourse!

 

I remember another golfsim, The Jack Nicklaus 6 - Golden Bear Challenge from Hypnos/Activision, which had a roaming cam option, which I always found very neat. You could drag that little cam all over the place before and after a shot. Anyway, all these cams, like in Links (if there are going to be extra cams at all in PG) should be optional of course, giving players the option of playing the game at different levels right up to almost duplicating the real thing. Playing with extra cams makes it easier of course.

 

PG looks to me as getting as close to perfecting this feat as is technically possible, so my cap is off to all of you people. Its just terrific that the whole thing is really actually taking off! I'll be patient...

[Kablammo11]

You can have a fixed player cam or even panoramic cam behind your avatar already and disable the dynamic cam options, if you want, to watch your ball sail away into the distance. A picture-in-picture insert of a 2nd cam is not intended, I believe, but you will get a lot of additional view options to select the best view to observe the landing and roll-out of your shot.

[dedBuNNy]

I don't really see the issue with placing a wide-angle camera behind the green and being able to have that a selected viewpoint upon hitting your shot, as long as your in 'range' of the camera if you have the option selected it cuts to that view, if you're not it stays with the default which is set. 

 

In either case once the ball stops, it cuts to the shot setup screen or what ever game default does. 

 

If someone slices the ball and it goes out of view then it goes out of view, once the ball stops, shot screen. 

 

Don't think anyone is looking for 'cameraman' simulations here where the ball flight is followed, but if there is a wide enough viewpoint it more than covers it. 

 

 

Long time ago I used to operate one of the tower camera's shooting horse racing.... I mean you cover your range and if whatever they want to see goes out of your field, they cut to another view. Being able to cover the fairway wide enough on a static camera behind green shouldn't pose any serious issues from a visual standpoint. From my perspective anyway, I can't see it. I do get that it might not flow with the game the way PP would like so that's cool. 

[J.H.Buchanan]

What if you hit the ball and then a replay camera shows what happens after the ball ends up doing whatever it ends up doing then this replay plays... but then if this was in the game then it would take forever right and there would be a lot of wait ????

I mean maybe about 10 years from now you could have about 50 hidden cameras with 50 different angles and then the camera that shows it the best comes on and shows you a replay ah forgetaboutit ...

[frank70]

I would love to have a static "landing cam" behind the green. So the outcome of my shot would be kind of a surprise.

In many golf games the "snap cam" lets the ball land exactly in the middle of the screen (is that the case in Perfect Golf right now?). So right in the moment the reverse camera shows up, i know exactly where my ball ends up. Not enough exitement!!

Do you remember Martin Kaymers tee shot on the 17th at Sawgrass? This weird bounce and spin came totally surprising to all - i don't want the game to tell me what is happening 4 or 5 seconds before the ball comes to rest.

[Kablammo11]

The issue with cameras right now is that they always are pre-selected. Players can go rummage into the game settings after every shot to quickly change the camera options, but once the shot is played, the camera coverage is stubbornly automatic.

 

I believe the best solution is to let players switch between different cameras while a ball is in flight, letting them decide which viewing angle they want to watch. A behind-the-green cam or even a 15ft-behind-the-hole cam could then be accessed through one of the number keys, for example. TW08 comes to mind.

The makers have announced that something like this (not necessarily exactly this) will eventually happen.

 

Taking this one step further would be customizable cams which first the designer gets to plant in CF and then players can shift around to their favorite spots to visualize what they want to see. That would be in a more distant future, though. Right now, it is what it is - A good start, but with ample potential for future improvement.

[Mike Jones]

I would love to have a static "landing cam" behind the green. So the outcome of my shot would be kind of a surprise.

In many golf games the "snap cam" lets the ball land exactly in the middle of the screen (is that the case in Perfect Golf right now?). So right in the moment the reverse camera shows up, i know exactly where my ball ends up. Not enough exitement!!

Do you remember Martin Kaymers tee shot on the 17th at Sawgrass? This weird bounce and spin came totally surprising to all - i don't want the game to tell me what is happening 4 or 5 seconds before the ball comes to rest.

 

That's not the case in PG, although the camera tracks the ball you won't know where it's going to end up until it stops because it's not pre calculated it just reacts to the live movement of the ball.

[J.H.Buchanan]

I usually don't hit the ball far enough to even need a camera and I never loose my golf balls because they are always no further than 30 feet away I am just glad they have handicapping. Sometimes I think a good pair of soccer shoes could replace my clubs. 

[aftrshok99]

I usually don't hit the ball far enough to even need a camera and I never loose my golf balls because they are always no further than 30 feet away I am just glad they have handicapping. Sometimes I think a good pair of soccer shoes could replace my clubs. 

It's still possible to lose your golf ball within that 30 feet...I've done it before!!!   

[Buck]

Just want to Echo the sentiments for some static cams, especially at the green.

My perfect hole, say a par 4, in terms of cameras has a rising cam off the tee where you watch the shot from the tee and then approach shots have a static green cam. If I shoot it so poorly that it doesn't enter the green cam, so be it. My fault totally.

Love a TV style presentation personally. All the way back to PGA TOUR 486 for me on that love.

[Dazmaniac]

Just been viewing a few replays with the Side On camera view.

 

You could get away with calling this one Caddie View, as it is more or less positioned in the spot where the caddie would be stood and as the shot is played the camera pans round to view the outcome of the shot but remains in position, as if seen through the caddie's eyes.