59 replies to this topic

[Richard]

What about simple basic controls?

Usually when I get a new game I go into the control configuration to see what all the keys do. Currently we don't have this option in PG. For example, "F2" shows a birds eye view of the current shot. Are these keys documented somewhere?

How do I change clubs, the type of shot, etc?

If the fundamentals were documented somewhere that'd help me a ton.

 

If you click on 'Game Guide' in the main menu of the game, it takes you to the guides that are currently posted on Steam. While many of these guides are incomplete, it does contain some of the fundamentals. I don't think that PP has spent a lot of time of documentation at this point only because the game is still evolving and therefore the documentation would be a waste and become obsolete quickly. I'm sure that when the game stabilizes the documentation will be updated and made more comprehensive.

[SeaMac]

If you click on 'Game Guide' in the main menu of the game, it takes you to the guides that are currently posted on Steam. While many of these guides are incomplete, it does contain some of the fundamentals. I don't think that PP has spent a lot of time of documentation at this point only because the game is still evolving and therefore the documentation would be a waste and become obsolete quickly. I'm sure that when the game stabilizes the documentation will be updated and made more comprehensive.

I appreciate the response. However, there are very few guides and the ones that are there are for very specific aspects. I don't think it would take much effort at all for someone to have a wiki-type running list of the very basic controls. Otherwise, there really is no way to know what the controls are. 

[Richard]

I appreciate the response. However, there are very few guides and the ones that are there are for very specific aspects. I don't think it would take much effort at all for someone to have a wiki-type running list of the very basic controls. Otherwise, there really is no way to know what the controls are. 

 

I can tell you from personal work experience, that procedure and manual writing is a very time consuming long process. I've written many detailed procedures and system user manuals during my working years. However, there is no need to start a debate. I pointed you to the available manuals posted on Steam and accessible through the game.

 

There is also one other manual, I don't know if it's a duplicate to the Steam ones, located here.

 

http://ppoffice.clou...x Online Manual

 

To the best of my knowledge these are the only ones currently available.

[SeaMac]

I'm a software developer. I understand completely what writing documentation entails.

Again, I appreciate the link to the manuals. None of those manuals touch on the ground floor of the game which would be the in game controls. I would imagine that'd at least be touched on briefly somewhere. It wouldn't take an AWAX Technical Manual to list the controls that are used in the game. Constructive feedback for an early stage game isn't a debate. As an early adopter I'm explaining my pain points, which is not knowing the simple hotkey controls and seemingly having nowhere to find them. I don't think that's an outlandish recommendation.

e.g.:

F2 - View of the hole.

F12 - Screenshot

[Richard]

I'm a software developer. I understand completely what writing documentation entails.

Again, I appreciate the link to the manuals. None of those manuals touch on the ground floor of the game which would be the in game controls. I would imagine that'd at least be touched on briefly somewhere. It wouldn't take an AWAX Technical Manual to list the controls that are used in the game. Constructive feedback for an early stage game isn't a debate. As an early adopter I'm explaining my pain points, which is not knowing the simple hotkey controls and seemingly having nowhere to find them. I don't think that's an outlandish recommendation.

e.g.:

F2 - View of the hole.

F12 - Screenshot

 

I agree with you completely. It's a very valid and good recommendation. All I was attempting to do, eventually not very well, was to point you to the known documentation and also to explain that, from what little I know, I don't expect the documentation to keep up with the changes as the game develops. I may be wrong, however. The current documentation is indeed inadequate in many respects.

[J.H.Buchanan]

I think at this time with the games development and the time that has passed since it's official early release to much time and effort is being spent regarding the key controls in the forums - customers that have the game and newbies that come aboard are having to dig around and post stuff in the forums and wait for feedback just to be able to find out simple info about keys etc. to enjoy the game. PP should no longer be like a Windows release wherein the customer is suppose to "discover" the software. 

Anyway, just have a simple list of some things that is edited as needed and posted somewhere that upon installation of the game a person is directed where to find this posted list of key bindings and other essential stuff and then have a "help link" that guides a person where to find stuff after installation that they can click on - The "Guides" option link that can be clicked on within the main menu obviously is not working or providing enough info so fix it.

[SeaMac]

I think at this games current stage a community editable wiki is a great idea. If anyone is interested in trying this out, contribution would be awesome. I know it'd be a huge help to myself.

http://pgolf.wikidot.com/

For example, I've started the "controls" page at http://pgolf.wikidot.com/controls ... Anyone in the community can click "edit this page" at the top to contribute.

[J.H.Buchanan]

I can tell you from personal work experience, that procedure and manual writing is a very time consuming long process. I've written many detailed procedures and system user manuals during my working years. However, there is no need to start a debate. I pointed you to the available manuals posted on Steam and accessible through the game.

 

There is also one other manual, I don't know if it's a duplicate to the Steam ones, located here.

 

http://ppoffice.clou...x Online Manual

 

To the best of my knowledge these are the only ones currently available.

This online manual link here is a great resource 

[jmac51]

This online manual link here is a great resource 

 

This "manual" has not been updated in more than a year. The screens it "explains" don't look anything like the game does today.

[jmac51]

I may certainly have missed it, but in a thread entitled "Perfect Golf User Manual" I am unable to find anything that comes close to actually being a user manual. I know the game is evolving and changing, sometimes dramatically, and I think the developers have done, all in all, a stellar job on the game itself. But when you take on the task of producing a product, an explanation of the uses and functions of that product is part of the task. It is not an afterthought. Not a "we'll get around to it eventually." And it shouldn't be left up to the users of the product to come up with on their own. A toaster comes with a user manual. There are many, many laudable accomplishments in this game but the lack of a complete user manual (per the current state of the game) is not one of them. And to say that it's because the game is evolving is justification for the user manual to lag the game development slightly. It is not justification for having little to nothing current at all. How would you feel if you brought home a new flat screen TV and instead of a user manual explaining installation, options, and set up and calibration, etc., you had a slip of paper saying "We put all our effort in to designing and building this TV. You'll have to figure out how to use it on your own until we can get around to providing documentation."

[worrybirdie]

You're absolutely right. Technical writing (for games) has become a dead art. Some justify it. I can't.

[IanD]

It's a little harsh... comparing items that have a physical shape and size with something digital. Once built, the toasters purpose can simply be to burn bread... but this IS evolving. Suffice to say, it isn't a finished article either, therefore the manual can be written at the TIME of retail release.

 

We must realise, having EARLY ACCESS means we're all in this together. The forum here, serves as a great instruction manual too, as well as the Steam forums. Give it the time it needs... and have a merry christmas.

[jmac51]

IanD...Perfect Golf is a product that requires specific information to use the same as a toaster or any other product. The fact it is digital does not negate the need for a user manual. But yes, a manual could, and should, be available at the time of retail release.

Your reference to being part of early release is valid to a point. There is still no reason certain information could not be provided and updated as the software changes. Keyboard shortcuts as one example.

Providing users with instructional information regarding the product being produced is as much a part of the process as any other aspect of the development. To say that it is too hard to maintain or time consuming is just not a valid reason. With the exception of Mike's explanation of the real time swing, this game has been left almost entirely to the users to figure out. This is a common practice though for computer software. Developers take advantage of the fact there are computer savvy people willing to post to various forums to provide information to those less knowledgeable instead of fulfilling their responsibility to provide that information to users of the product they chose to develop. It's the way things work. That doesn't make it right. 

[IanD]

I never said it was too hard or time consuming... think you may be a tad hard on the point you're making and the issue at hand. I only said it can be written at the TIME of retail release. I do understand your points, but I simply don't agree with them. However, that may be because I'm testing things behind the scenes, so I know they are far from sitting still and frequently giving us new builds to test.

 

For users to figure things out is common practice, you are right. I've seen other games go in a similar way and allow us the enjoyment of discovering things. Granted, it could and maybe should be different. In this EA release, the PP guys are new to the gaming platform and have yet to develop their own company into the size of other gaming companies, that we are now comparing them to. It's great to set standards though, and strive to meet them. But I'd give them a bigger break in this instance, especially until the final UI and front end design is properly established. If for any other reason, what company actually listens to those using the product ? Therefore if you have a valid reason the menu should be changed, what good is a user manual...? Chicken and egg scenario..

[JoeF]

Your points are valid, jmac, but which scenario would you prefer:  

1 - they continue squashing bugs and implementing features in preparation for final release

or

2 - they stop squashing bugs and implementing features and write/update a users manual for those of us who have already figured most things out through trial and error and the existing outdated guide.  

 

My guess is that may well be the final step before release, after everything else is set in stone.  

[J.H.Buchanan]

Are they closer to the official release and also Course Forge where are we at with that .???  Thanks 

[jmac51]

Your points are valid, jmac, but which scenario would you prefer:  

1 - they continue squashing bugs and implementing features in preparation for final release

or

2 - they stop squashing bugs and implementing features and write/update a users manual for those of us who have already figured most things out through trial and error and the existing outdated guide.  

 

My guess is that may well be the final step before release, after everything else is set in stone.  

Hi Joe, I understand what you are saying and my preference is wishful thinking and I know that. I would prefer the scenario in which software developers who make a conscious choice to develop a product for public sale recognize that providing adequate instruction for that product is part of their job. Instead they put up a forum and hand that part of the process off to those they are selling the product to. I understand why this is an attractive way of doing things for companies. I just don't think it's right. I should not have to post a question on a forum seeking information about basic functionality of product that was deemed ready for public release. I don't think providing instruction for a product that is at least reflective of a recent update, not necessarily the most current update, is too much to ask. 

I don't mean to sound overly critical of the developers of this game and I have said often that I think they have done a remarkable job. My understanding of the vision for this game is that it is a very long way from "set in stone" and will continue to be polished and refined for quite some time. I can certainly appreciate the demands placed on a smaller company where priorities have to be set. I just hope these issues will be addressed before we reach the set in stone point. A complete practice mode is another area I think should be at the front of the list and not the end, but that is a different discussion.

IanD you do have a unique perspective as a tester that I do not so your comments carry more weight than mine. And I have zero knowledge of game design or coding. To me this is a pretty basic concept. If a company puts a product on the market they have an obligation to provide users with information needed to use the product as it was intended. Maybe that is an over simplification of the issues involved.

[IanD]

What you ask, isn't something that is above and beyond.... it is for simplified instructions on a product to be sold later, with more additional functions and features included. That's all... I agree. However, I only wish to add that they will need a little more time, especially with things changing between builds. Currently, we have a slight UI change between the build you have and the next... some further additional options will be available to you. We may have both seen the new animation golfer too, which appear to be using even more changes to the UI (user interface). Final placements of these, can be influenced by the likes of yourself, upon these very forums. The developers here, pay alot of attention to not only the feedback offered from the testers, but from those using the product, here and on the Steam forums.

 

Suffice to say, they'd likely love to have a user manual reflecting the current inclusions of the game. Quite simply though, it would be outdated in a matter of weeks again....

 

They'll get there..... and when they do, we'll be nicely alongside them too.

[worrybirdie]

That was December 2015.

[worrybirdie]

If you need a technical writer, my rates are reasonable.