21 replies to this topic

[DoGgs]

I have about 15 fictional courses that have been sat at 2 or 3 holes laid down, now i am out of heightmaps i may carry on with a few of them, this is the one of them, only two holes so far and its totally imagined.  Thinking of running it around a coastline with the odd foray into the mountain here and there...slow burner as i have my final mapped course to complete.  Not sure if fictional courses are worth bothering with anymore, people seem to prefer RL venues...thoughts?

[zmax - sim]

As a tour site admin, I can tell you that players on OGT prefer to play on real courses.  But OGT have and will continue to use great fictional courses, especially for exhibition events.   Personally, I would prefer you work on real courses.....

[Drgnslyr221]

1587 yard par 4. Put Erin Hills to shame, lol.  

[Jperkules]

I love real course recreations, but fictional also have their place. PG would be a bit different without some of the great fictionals like Lost Tracks. Dragons Margin looks enticing and interesting.

[GoldenBear]

I have about 15 fictional courses that have been sat at 2 or 3 holes laid down, now i am out of heightmaps i may carry on with a few of them, this is the one of them, only two holes so far and its totally imagined.  Thinking of running it around a coastline with the odd foray into the mountain here and there...slow burner as i have my final mapped course to complete.  Not sure if fictional courses are worth bothering with anymore, people seem to prefer RL venues...thoughts?

 

I prefer fictional courses Doggs and your especially.

[DoGgs]

As a tour site admin, I can tell you that players on OGT prefer to play on real courses.  But OGT have and will continue to use great fictional courses, especially for exhibition events.   Personally, I would prefer you work on real courses.....

Yes i would rather create real courses as they are less time consuming, have put a few requests in LIDAR request thread.

[Quigs]

I think there is a place for both - as with all your courses, this looks like a fantastic beginning of a course. There is no doubt it would be played. Just a question whether you want to put the time. Would be interesting to see the % played stats of real vs fictional. 

[RobV]

Personally like fictional courses... when done well, it really shows the creator's talent for course building.. which I admire.  I mean seriously.. how many darn times can I play Augusta?   I don't even have that course installed simply because every darn golf title I have owned had some rendition of it.  I personally feel there are a TON of fictional courses made and enjoy better than that course, but that's just me.   

 

If there were no fictional courses in PG, I would probably play a lot less than I do now.. in fact, the majority of courses installed are fictional.  I just prefer them over real.    

[DoGgs]

I'll def carry on with this as a slow burner, all my fictional courses tend to be first time experiments which can be a bit hit and miss, like here i have started with an all sand like base texture and working green into it as i go along, bit more time consuming than normal and i may get sick of it and change it all completely.  Once i get about 6 holes down i'll know if its gonna be worth the effort.

[DoGgs]

Personally like fictional courses... when done well, it really shows the creator's talent for course building.. which I admire.  I mean seriously.. how many darn times can I play Augusta?   I don't even have that course installed simply because every darn golf title I have owned had some rendition of it.  I personally feel there are a TON of fictional courses made and enjoy better than that course, but that's just me.   

 

If there were no fictional courses in PG, I would probably play a lot less than I do now.. in fact, the majority of courses installed are fictional.  I just prefer them over real.    

guess i'm a bit torn, i'm prob 50/50 although i think you can enjoy a creative fictional course more as they tend to be more immersive as long as the designer has employed his/her imagination to it,  Look how immersive a course like five sisters is, its incredible! i don't really like the way the course plays, but i still play it often as its a work of art rather than a golf course.

[Greensboronclion]

I am a fan of any great video course and love all the ones you put out DoGgz and this one looks like it will be fantastic.  Yes on tour I prefer the Real courses but Fictional courses are some of our best and back in the links days we had so many great ones and I still pull links out and play Tall Pines Estate every once an awhile.  The one thing that you get with a fictional course is creativity as you must be very creative to make a course like this.  Looking forward to this one and keep pumping them out.

[DoGgs]

I will say that i am not a fan of fantasy courses, i prefer a fictional course that could exist IRL.  Those daft fantasy courses that came with tiger woods always used to annoy me, i would have preferred it if they put in lesser known real courses instead.

[RBarley]

As a designer of both fictional and real course in other golf sims I can say it's easier to make real courses because of all the reference materials available to help you make the course. Fictional courses of course is in your own mind. The best designers are able to transfer their idea's of a great course to the software used. Some make real courses that are well done from the play stand point, but lack the eye candy or artistic skills to make that look. I've seen some really well done courses from the artistic view, but lack the vision of what makes a challenging but fair course. It seems everyone wants to play real courses because they play in an online tour and want to play along with the pro's. I don't play in tours and would prefer to play on courses that are well designed and thought out weather real or fictional.

[worrybirdie]

Been working on my first course, a fictional course on a real world height map. It is definitely more challenging , in a way, as you have to lay it out to suit the terrain, but also more rewarding. I am trying to follow Jack Nicklaus's design approach of changing the natural landscape as little as possible, even down to trees and green contours. Have 4 holes so far roughed in and playable. We just got two yorkie puppies on Father's Day, and that's eating into my designing time.   They are adorable, but require almost constant supervision. At least we're not bored!

[DoGgs]

As a designer of both fictional and real course in other golf sims I can say it's easier to make real courses because of all the reference materials available to help you make the course. Fictional courses of course is in your own mind. The best designers are able to transfer their idea's of a great course to the software used. Some make real courses that are well done from the play stand point, but lack the eye candy or artistic skills to make that look. I've seen some really well done courses from the artistic view, but lack the vision of what makes a challenging but fair course. It seems everyone wants to play real courses because they play in an online tour and want to play along with the pro's. I don't play in tours and would prefer to play on courses that are well designed and thought out weather real or fictional.

Yes its def easier to make real courses in CF, i made TPC boston in GNCD at TGC and that was a total pain in the arse.  Having to hover the cursor over the course in google maps and record elevation changes on every hole and surround, then having to raise and lower land to try and get as close as possible to the real thing, not to mention laying fairway shapes to form one complete fairway that matched the course and last but not least, measuring everything!.....LOL never....ever....again! that was bloody hard work.

[Flyon]

I will say that i am not a fan of fantasy courses, i prefer a fictional course that could exist IRL.  Those daft fantasy courses that came with tiger woods always used to annoy me, i would have preferred it if they put in lesser known real courses instead.

 

I think you might have an idea on my position on real life courses, as I have always championed for them whenever possible in the forums -especially The Open courses that you have released for JNPG for us so far.

 

But I will have to kindly differ with you on the "daft fantasy courses that came with tiger woods" remark:

Yes, some of the fantasy tracks in TW were downright hideous, but there's a couple right off the top of my head that I would really like to see here in JNPG. Namely Emerald Dragon from TW08, and Central Park from TW07.

 

Not that I see it happening though anytime soon, this is just me thinking and dreaming out aloud.

 

Dragon was just an awesome layout, from start to finish.

Central Park? Yeah, it kind of bordered on the "hideous" side, I get it. But it was fun to play in that environment. And unreal as it may be -a golf course in NY's Central Park -yeah, right-  it too had a brilliant layout, and like Emerald Dragon, the scenery was indeed something, even looking at it on an old junk pc...

[Flyon]

I prefer fictional courses Doggs and your especially.

 

Agreed. Nothing wrong with liking both fictional and real life courses, is there?

The Dragon's Margin looks like it will be an awesome fictional course indeed. Guess what I'm am saying is I can have it both ways when it comes to JNPG courses.

 

I just answered my own question.. he he 

[Mike Jones]

I always preferred making fictional courses as recreating someone else's work for a golf game is like making a copy of a work of art. It's always more difficult to create a really good fictional course with your own stamp on it than to simply copy because you need to understand the fundamentals of good golf design and how to make courses interesting without being able to 'paint by numbers'

[DoGgs]

As a designer i think i'm far from technically proficient, especially compared to some here, i'll mention K11, Rob, Matt and of course Gary.  There are others also.  I like to think my courses are enjoyable to play along with drawing a player into its enviroment...LOL i have to think that or i got nothing    I think i do a good job of designing short par 4's  imo they are difficult holes to make interesting and challenging at the same time, i also think its important to have a few breather holes,  I remember getting slated over at TGC because a particular course had 2 or 3 breather holes amongst many tough and varied holes.  I was nearly convinced that i had gotten it wrong, but imo you simply cannot have 18 sig holes, its ridiculous.

[Dazmaniac]

I always preferred making fictional courses as recreating someone else's work for a golf game is like making a copy of a work of art. It's always more difficult to create a really good fictional course with your own stamp on it than to simply copy because you need to understand the fundamentals of good golf design and how to make courses interesting without being able to 'paint by numbers'

 

Totally understand what you are saying MJ, but recreating real life courses is hardly 'painting by numbers' otherwise we would all be churning out real life venues if it was that easy, lol. We might have even seen the Jack Nicklaus Design course pack that Andrew touted quite some months ago. Whatever happened to that? Not forgetting some Asian JN Design courses I'm sure Andrew said would be coming to JNPG.

 

Wanted to give you all a quick update on what we have been working on...

We have recently released The Grove a real course in the UK that hosts the British Masters.  We have another real course in Texas coming soon (the first new public golf course in Texas in several years)  and hopefully a couple of other PGA Tour courses.

We have also been working with Nicklaus Design and hope to announce soon a three course Asia pack of Nicklaus Designs and a 5 course Nicklaus Signature Course pack

On the game front we have been hard at work on a significant rewrite of the bounce physics, which we have done in conjunction with some PGA Pros as some Trackman folks.  This removes one of the more significant weaknesses in our current game and advances it to the next level of reality in simulation golf.

We have also rewritten the Computer Golfers from the ground up and are happy to say that the computer golfer experience is now significantly enhanced.  Faster and with a greater degree of flexibility than before.

We have also separated out the Green Firmness from the Fairway firmness allowing you to play combinations that were not possible before as well as introducing a green quality setting which reflects how bunpy the greens are.  the more bunpy they are the more chance on longer putts that your putt will stray offline due to the unevenness of the green or for those of you who miss a lot of putts the more chance it has to be deflected into the hole.

Finally we have been hard at work on our 3D grass solution.  Attached are some very very early work in progress pictures

 

 

LIDAR and texture overlay are an absolute god send, that I will agree, but it still needs some care and attention and a bit of know how to get the course looking like its real life counter-part.