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2K Sports presents The Golf Club 2019 Featuring PGA TOUR


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#201 DivotMaker

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 07:58 PM

OK?

I’m not sure why you think it’s a rabbit hole…

Am I to infer that you feel like TGC is the best so far?

Or one of the TW games?

So frustrating these days that people with differing opinions won’t even talk anymore

 

Sorry, but I tend to post a helluva lot less these days as forums have become such a tremendous timesuck and some become very toxic and completely destructive in nature. Seeing the nature of the past couple of pages of this thread, I'm not interested in saying too much.

 

That being said:

 

PGA 2000 with today's engines like Frostbite 3, TrueSwing and today's PC and console hardware would be a good choice.

 

Tiger Woods 14 on Frostbite 3, PC, and X1X / PS4 Pro with a great course architect,  TrueSwing and NOT developed and published by EA Sports would be nirvana IMO.


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#202 Buck

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 08:04 PM

Oh I totally agree about a modern PGA or TW 14…

Perhaps surprisingly to some if I had to pick one single game as the best ever so far I would pick TW 14 because I have to look at the entire package including content and career mode along with things like gameplay.

Before that I probably would’ve said PGA 2000… But it’s just too dated this point to be in the running anymore for me.

It is truly a shame that the Tiger Woods 14 game itself didn’t get the modern frostbite experience with all the content at some point.

#203 DoGgs

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 08:17 PM

With golf games i tend to think about the times past and present that i was immersed in the game of the time, and immersed in the social enviroment.  With PGA 2000 i was playing in the copyright club forum with good honest people and great competition.  With Tiger 10 on xbox i played with fewer people but we all played the hardest difficulty with no grid, and had some great games and banter over xbox live. When TGC came out multiplayer was broken from the start, TGCT was not even an idea, GNCD was fun because of its ease of use, but gameplay was always a bit so so.  My time playing with the copyright club people brings about the fondest memories, so its prob why that game sticks as the most enjoyable, it's all about enjoyment at the end of the day, no matter what genre.


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#204 MERACE

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 11:09 PM

My time playing with the copyright club people brings about the fondest memories, so its prob why that game sticks as the most enjoyable, it's all about enjoyment at the end of the day, no matter what genre.

 

I agree 100%. :)

 

I played the game every night online knowing that most of my opponents were "edging" while I was playing "free-hand".  ;)

 

 

-MERACE



#205 shimonko

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 01:06 AM

With golf games i tend to think about the times past and present that i was immersed in the game of the time, and immersed in the social enviroment.  With PGA 2000 i was playing in the copyright club forum with good honest people and great competition.  With Tiger 10 on xbox i played with fewer people but we all played the hardest difficulty with no grid, and had some great games and banter over xbox live. When TGC came out multiplayer was broken from the start, TGCT was not even an idea, GNCD was fun because of its ease of use, but gameplay was always a bit so so.  My time playing with the copyright club people brings about the fondest memories, so its prob why that game sticks as the most enjoyable, it's all about enjoyment at the end of the day, no matter what genre.

That's what we find in JNPG sim and OGT's sim discord - it's all about playing with others, banter, meeting up with them in person. I definitely have no desire to play a round by myself. So many even like to play with others so they keep their cool during bad breaks, lol.  I feel like I even know the wives and kids of people I play with, despite never meeting them.



#206 Mike Jones

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 07:57 AM

 

 Right now it's a hairstyle simulator with golf clubs in it.

 

 

:lol:


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#207 Mike Jones

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 08:23 AM

I think it boils down to the goals of the game from the outset and what compromises are willing to be made in regard to the original vision compared to sales you might make. I can tell you at PP we had zero interest in making an arcade game that would probably have sold more and got better reviews and to be honest our arcade game would probably have sucked anyway because we have limited experience in what they are all about anyway.

 

TGC set out to make a fairly easy to play pleasant game with an easy to use but limited course design program which would create maximum sales on all platforms. They did a pretty decent job with that goal in mind. They had more experienced graphics guys than us and so their UI, avatar and lighting was better and none of that was surprising. The thing is when I look at their graphics now and in this upcoming game they have, they simply have not moved on IMO apart from a slightly better avatar and hairstyle system  :)  

 

I do know that every single update we have made to PG was to make it a better and more realistic experience and while we were learning as we went our knowledge and skillset got better and better as we worked more on it. 

 

We didn't court publicity like HB studios did, We didn't not have any contacts in the game industry or online magazines and we had no idea how to get them. We went into the whole PG experience with half the knowledge we really needed to make the game a complete success.

 

Over the last 5 year though it has been a success but our roots are still mainly planted in the real golf game which we try and simulate and not a fictional arcade world which HB produce which sells at higher volumes and will sell even more with their new PGA license. We still have virtually no gaming contacts now but our integration with virtually every facet of the real golf world is pretty much complete. When you load up the PGA webcasts you will still be seeing PG graphics and not the HB studios ones because they and we know the accuracy and physics as well as our shotlink integration are currently the best out there. We're still trying to make them better.

 

I have previously purchased and played buth TGC 1 and 2 and I'll buy this one too but I'm not expecting anything but more of the same . I'm not actually sure why ADX doesn't come here more often as I'm 100% sure that we are actually trying to make the exact game that he wants to play but we're just not there yet!


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#208 Dazmaniac

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 11:42 AM

"we're just not there yet"

MJ, let's hope you do get there, before we all start pushing up daisies, lol.

Can you say whether developnent has speeded up any since Trackman took over? Not after any release dates, just if progress on all things PG2 are moving any quicker than previous or if things are still the same pace.

#209 adx321

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 12:11 PM

I think it boils down to the goals of the game from the outset and what compromises are willing to be made in regard to the original vision compared to sales you might make. I can tell you at PP we had zero interested in making an arcade game that would probably have sold more and got better reviews and to be honest our arcade game would probably have sucked anyway because we have limited experience in what they are all about anyway.

 

TGC set out to make a fairly easy to play pleasant game with an easy to use but limited course design program which would create maximum sales on all platforms. They did a pretty decent job with that goal in mind. They had more experienced graphics guys than us and so their UI, avatar and lighting was better and none of that was surprising. The thing is when I look at their graphics now and in this upcoming game they have, they simply have not moved on IMO apart from a slightly better avatar and hairstyle system  :)  

 

I do know that every single update we have made to PG was to make it a better and more realistic experience and while we were learning as we went our knowledge and skillset got better and better as we worked more on it. 

 

We didn't court publicity like HB studios did, We didn't not have any contacts in the game industry or online magazines and we had no idea how to get them. We went into the whole PG experience with half the knowledge we really needed to make the game a complete success.

 

Over the last 5 year though it has been a success but our roots are still mainly planted in the real golf game which we try and simulate and not a fictional arcade world which HB produce which sells at higher volumes and will sell even more with their new PGA license. We still have virtually no gaming contacts now but our integration with virtually every facet of the real golf world is pretty much complete. When you load up the PGA webcasts you will still be seeing PG graphics and not the HB studios ones because they and we know the accuracy and physics as well as our shotlink integration are currently the best out there. We're still trying to make them better.

 

I have previously purchased and played buth TGC 1 and 2 and I'll buy this one too but I'm not expecting anything but more of the same . I'm not actually sure why ADX doesn't come here more often as I'm 100% sure that we are actually trying to make the exact game that he wants to play but we're just not there yet!

 

Mike,

 

I've ALWAYS respected your course design history, enjoyed our back and forth back in the PGA Champ/Links days, and do appreciate your input.  I even LOVED the idea of you monetizing your courses and would like all designers to be able to do so.

 

The reason I don't play your game is very simple.  It looks and feels like Links to me, and I stopped accepting Links the moment PGA Championship Golf came out.  I only want to use a controller  swing and I just don't "feel" like I'm doing anything that I can see on the screen.  With that said, I don't feel that way about TGC anymore either with their idiotic tempo butcher job (side bar, did you know there's only one tempo possible to hit good golf shots? I'm a +1 handicap and have been around scratch my entire life and this was news to me! I hope HB doesn't get someone to take Nick Price's trophies and winnings back because he had what they'd consider a "fast fast" tempo and he'd hook everything and give up the game).

 

When I load up your game I feel like the Links days, I'm looking at an avatar that's being popped in to a post card and I do some things to make him move but I'm not really "inside the post card".  I don't know if that makes sense, but that's the barrier.  And the putting engine, I really don't like how it works or feels.

 

But you knocked some things out of the park - the look of bunkers is the best we've seen, the mp interface is great, and the stats are awesome.  I do think your highest level of difficulty is a bit artificially difficult but that's why there are different levels.

 

This isn't intended as a jab and I don't think saying there are Links similarities is an opinion that isn't accepted by most (and loved).  I've got a hole where a golf game needs to be that will not be filled by the next TGC game and even have this in my basement for one that doubles as a sim.  If you do pull out PG2 and I can feel immersed, I'll buy (and I did buy PG despite being pretty confident I wouldn't like it) :)

 

i8om9ozizvk01.jpg



#210 zmax - sim

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 02:43 PM

i8om9ozizvk01.jpg

 

Great looking room.   Grab yourself a GC2 launch monitor and try JNPG in your sim room.   1 week sim trial is $20.   You'll thank me later.... :)



#211 GoldenBear

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 03:40 PM

MLB The Show is one of the best sports simulations ever made.  Just look at the ratings year after year after year.  By your logic, the fact that they've released a new version every year is proof that the first offering was horrible.  But NONE of the ratings support that fact.  The game got better and better with every release.  You're just factually wrong whether you want to admit it or not.

 

Now if your argument is that they shouldn't charge for those annual releases then you're just out of touch with reality and there is no sane debate that can be had with you.

 

You obviously glossed over my post about rFactor2.  Nothing more needs to be said.



#212 Buck

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 03:42 PM

Nothing more needs to be said.

 

Now there is something we can all agree on!


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#213 JCat04

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 03:50 PM

Mike,  I really appreciate your detailed post describing Perfect Parallel's philosophy for Perfect Golf, and how you see the differences between JNPG and TGC 1/2.  It answered a lot of questions.  I'm very curious to see what you guys eventually have to offer with PG 2 (or whatever it winds up being titled).  With what I was seeing in those PG 2 screen shots from last year, with Turf Effects and new lighting, all you need is a 2018-esque avatar and you'd be on your way, IMO! 

 

I think TGC 2019 is going to look a bit different with its use of SpeedTrees.   I've seen the results of their experimentation with levels of detail in them and I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't already know about SpeedTrees & LOD, but it makes a difference.


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#214 Mike Jones

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 04:00 PM

 

I think TGC 2019 is going to look a bit different with its use of SpeedTrees.   I've seen the results of their experimentation with levels of detail in them and I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't already know about SpeedTrees & LOD, but it makes a difference.

 

Our implementation of Speedtrees is better in PG2 as our lighting its much more advanced and we have had several years of experience with them now and sort of know how to get the best visuals out of them. I can see from the previews of TGC 2019 that they are struggling with their speedtrees and their LOD settings look like there's going to be a bunch of 'popping' going on but I guess it's early days for them.



#215 GoldenBear

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 04:03 PM

So when we say it that's just an opinion but when you say it then it's a fact?

 

That's what you're going with? lol

 

I backed up my "fact" quite soundly here.  Please do tell me why you and others get roped into yearly iterations (sequels) of video games.  A yearly rewrite of code is not needed.  It is only a cash grab that those who are astute can see from a mile away.

 

My example of rFactor2 being around and still current WITHOUT a complete code rewrite is proof positive that it is not needed.  It is no more needed than buying every new version of an iphone, tablet whatever.  Watching the masses line up for opening day of these new editions of gadgets gives me the heartiest of chuckles.  The sheeple are so brainwashed.  That is what transpires with those buying clones of an original game that never got it right.  It is no skin off my nose that you and some others are so free with your money and will buy anything.

 

post script...Head over to Studio 397 (the owners of rFactor 2) and see how a video game is supposed to progress.  We get monthly roadmaps on update features and free cars designed by them.  They have live streams where we can watch the newest cars and tracks being developed and tested with live chat.  They are always updating the tire models as the cars irl have changes in them.  rFactor2 has a Discord channel where the devs talk to us DAILY whenever we have a query.  There is so much more they do.  THIS is how a game is supposed to be developed, not the buy it every year deal that you and others so freely accept.



#216 GoldenBear

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 04:11 PM

Not quite. In 2017 Studio 397 created a brand new DX11 game engine for rFactor2 (making the step up from their original DX9 engine). Took quite a bit of code re-writes to get it right. 

 

Agreed.  But it was written into the existing code.  The core physics engine was not touched.  The graphics engine was only updated with what was needed for DX11.  They did not have to rewrite it from scratch.  It took months to update all the content by a team of devs to DX11 but here is the big kicker.  The price for all this hard work?  Nothing!  



#217 Mike Jones

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 04:13 PM

Mike,

The reason I don't play your game is very simple.  It looks and feels like Links to me, and I stopped accepting Links the moment PGA Championship Golf came out.  I only want to use a controller  swing and I just don't "feel" like I'm doing anything that I can see on the screen.  

 

When I load up your game I feel like the Links days, I'm looking at an avatar that's being popped in to a post card and I do some things to make him move but I'm not really "inside the post card".  I don't know if that makes sense, but that's the barrier.  And the putting engine, I really don't like how it works or feels.

 

 

 

I think the majority of what you're talking about here is linked to the way the avatar is modeled, lit and then animated when you're using a controller. So basically if we could fix the avatar we would instantly have a much more appealing game and I completely agree. Hacker Harry has never been in my dream foursome list! 

 

I think with the advances we have already made with the avatar, turf and overall lighting, things are going to look and feel a lot more 'together' in PG2. Of course if you're playing on a sim the avatar is a non issue anyway and the main concern is with the visuals and physics.



#218 Buck

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 04:13 PM

Our implementation of Speedtrees is better in PG2 as our lighting its much more advanced and we have had several years of experience with them now and sort of know how to get the best visuals out of them.

 

(licks chops at the thought of seeing how this looks...)



#219 Mike Jones

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 04:21 PM

 

My example of rFactor2 being around and still current WITHOUT a complete code rewrite is proof positive that it is not needed.  

 

The biggest problem with sequels is exactly this - there is usually no big rewrite of the code so basically the only things that change are the bells and whistles. Very very rarely do sequels go back to the drawing board and make the effort to actually improve things from the ground up. PG2 is being rewritten from the ground up and has all the benefits that go along with that ie faster, more stable, better visuals, completely new UI etc. It just takes time with a small team.

 

BTW Key areas of RFactor 2 were completely rewritten (tyre model for example) and so it falls between the two extremes.


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#220 GoldenBear

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 04:27 PM

The biggest problem with sequels is exactly this - there is usually no big rewrite of the code so basically the only things that change are the bells and whistles. Very very rarely do sequels go back to the drawing board and make the effort to actually improve things from the ground up. PG2 is being rewritten from the ground up and has all the benefits that go along with that ie faster, more stable, better visuals, completely new UI etc. It just takes time with a small team.

 

BTW Key areas of RFactor 2 where completely rewritten (type model for example) and so it falls between the two extremes.

 

That reply I can accept.  You worded it better. 

 

BTW this has nothing to do with PG2.  Other than the 3 click meter and some other bugs this game has always been fun for me.  I still play at least one round daily.






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