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Hole Creation Spline Order

Course Forge bleed terrain

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#1 Krotus

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Posted 01 July 2019 - 06:07 AM

Greetings!

I'm a new user and, having watched and followed along with all of the Mike Jones video tutorials for Course Forge, I have started creating a course.

Just a quick run down on what I am doing:
Use the course1 terrain with all trees deleted.
Use measuring tool to get the hole length, green dimensions and fairway width.
Draw a rough green shape. Click node and create the spline. All good.
Rough draw any bunkers. Click nodes and create the splines. All good.
Rough draw the fairway. Click node and create the spline. All good.
Rough draw a semi rough. Click node and create the spline. All good.
Refine the spline shape of the green removing excess nodes.
Click node and create the spline. All good.
Refine the spline shape of any bunkers removing excess nodes.
Click nodes and create the splines. All good.
Refine the spline shape of the fairway removing excess nodes.
Click node and create the spline. All good.
Refine the spline shape of the semi rough removing excess nodes.
Click node and create the spline.

Any it all goes haywire.

The rough looks fine. Some or even none of the bunkers render, the green may not render but if it does, the semi rough (not the terrain!) is bleeding through it and the semi rough is bleeding through the fairway. No amount of terrain smoothing reduces/removes the semi rough bleed or helps the bunkers and/or green render.

The only thing that works is for me to delete the green, bunkers and fairway leaving only the refined semi rough and then draw and refine the faiway, draw and refine the green, draw and refine the bunkers. I cannot even move the previously refined green, bunkers and fairway splines off the refined semi rough, build the refined semi rough, move the fairway onto it and build the spline, move the green and build the spline, move the bunkers and build the splines - I end up with the same issue as previously described.

If I create a hole starting with the rough first, once all of the splines have been built, I can modify/terraform the terrain and rebuild them without the semi rough bleeding and bunker/green spline rendering issues.

Any ideas as to what I am doing wrong or is it normal to create the rough first then add a spline at a time?

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#2 RobC

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Posted 01 July 2019 - 06:28 AM

I would say your splines around your green are too close if you create the splines and build them and it goes. "haywire" hold shift while in spline create mode and will show where the overlapping is
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#3 Joe Habiger

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Posted 01 July 2019 - 02:18 PM

I think RobC is trying to say your BLEND is to high allowing it to overlap your bunker or other shapes which will make them partially disappear and not drop down correctly. Not sure about drawing rough shape first and I have never done it that way, here is the order I like to go.

 

1. Draw a tee shape (adjust shape and size) and build spline in course forge.

 

2. Draw a green (adjust shape and size) and build spline.

 

3. Draw fairway (adjust shape and size) and build spline.

 

4. Draw Semi-Rough around fairway (adjust shape and size) and build spline. Or you can just open the layers library and under the Selected Layer drop down box select Fairway and to the right of it you'll see a box that says Fringe. Click that and set it to 1 which is 1 meter or 3 feet for us USA people and make sure the blend is at 0.2 or less because you want room for your bunkers.

 

5. Draw bunker/sand shape (adjust shape and size) and build spline. Remember in the screenshots below I will show you what happens if your blend is set to high so I always keep my blends at 0.3 or less almost always it's at 0.2 for everything because if it's out to far and you build your next shape to close to it that new shape will not drop because of the previous shapes outer blend being to big or large.

 

6. I NOW draw my rough shape (adjust shape and size) and build spline as this will now drop the bunkers correctly instead of them looking like they are sitting higher than the mesh. You always need a rough shape around bunkers for it to drop down onto the terrain properly.

 

Now as I have told you I was going to show you two screenshots of what I meant about the blend and how it can affect your other textures. I have a feeling this is what you are experiencing because your blends are set to high. I always do this first and if you are using the tutorial plot he has his blend settings set right EXCEPT one which is the Semi Rough, you need to set that one about 0.3 or 0.2 because he has it set to 1 which is maximum and way to high for a semi rough because not every bunker is 3-4 feet away from the green or fairway. If this is not the problem you are experiencing than it just could be the order in which you are drawing shapes in which I always start with tee's first.

 

You'll see in this first picture below my blend on the semi-rough which is the purple shape is at 0.2 and while holding shift you can see the outer shape of it which is the blend and It gives me room between the bunker next to it. In the next picture below this one I bumped up my blend to 0.8 and rebuilt the semi rough-spline and as a result you can see my bunker is now gone and my green texture looks all weirded out but this what happens if shapes cross (which should not be done) and the blend shape for the semi-rough is crossing the bunker shape which screws it up. If I would take this/these bunker shapes and move them slightly farther out and rebuild the spline on the bunkers everything would be back to correct self dropped down into the mesh. You'll also notice that ORANGE line around my RED green line is my fairway because you HAVE to draw your fairway around the green so I just use that as my green fringe because it's very puttable as well and I hate having to many cuts.

 

5xssgCk.jpg

 

You'll noticed I highlighted with a RED LINE by the bunker which is the 0.8 blend which came out a lot farther now and crossed into my bunker shape and made it so my bunker will not draw anymore. Also I circled where in the layers library the blend is that you should usually keep at 0.3 or less. I would keep only my ROUGH at a blend of 1 and nothing else but you can experiment with this if you'd like once you get more comfortable with course forge and how it works. It really is a great design tool for unity.

 

09OwkaB.jpg


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#4 Krotus

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Posted 02 July 2019 - 05:42 AM

Thanks for replies.

I don't have any overlapping splines. I'll pay attention to the blend values.

Whenever I have tried to have semi-rough and rough shapes, I always an error about too many vertices. On the course I am currently working on, I just have a semi rough and I haven't noticed any issues with the bunkers.

I'll try adding a rough on the 3 holes I have completed and see what happens.



#5 Joe Habiger

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Posted 02 July 2019 - 08:17 AM

You must be drawing some extremely long holes or overlapping many fairways and such to get a to many vertices error using semi-rough? Sometimes I'd get that with rough but that is because the hole was to long but I would bring the rough out way to far. It's a good idea to just wrap the rough around one hole at a time maybe 50-80 feet from fairway max. You can paint in between holes or you can use a low resolution rough later to fill in as I did on some of these other holes you see with the light blue spline but that shouldn't be focused on now. You need to spline your holes correctly first so you don't get these errors. If your doing a links type course then maybe someone else can help you with some of those technics probably using a lower resolution of fairways and such but if it's a parkland type of course I would just do one hole at a time.

 

Here are my holes, you can see i've only drawn the rough a certain ways past the the layed out hole because if you go out to far and you have a longer hole you will get those vertice errors.

 

d4GkVkF.jpg


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#6 Joe Habiger

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Posted 02 July 2019 - 12:29 PM

Another thing you can do is change the "Meter per point" in the layers library to 5 or 6. I end up deleting some points anyways when I create the rough so maybe that would be a good idea and might keep you from hitting your vertices error. I wouldn't go much higher though or your rough mesh will end up as a lower resolution rough. Maybe DP Roberts or someone else can explain as I can't because I don't know either.

 

8cnvlHi.jpg


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#7 jspirate

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Posted 02 July 2019 - 02:42 PM

Thanks for replies.

I don't have any overlapping splines. I'll pay attention to the blend values.

Whenever I have tried to have semi-rough and rough shapes, I always an error about too many vertices. On the course I am currently working on, I just have a semi rough and I haven't noticed any issues with the bunkers.

I'll try adding a rough on the 3 holes I have completed and see what happens.

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but did you add some mini splines to the outer rough spline to ensure that the outer rough spline doesn't exceed the 65K limit?  Or at least verify that the outer spline isn't above 65k vert?


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#8 clubcaptain

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Posted 02 July 2019 - 07:54 PM

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but did you add some mini splines to the outer rough spline to ensure that the outer rough spline doesn't exceed the 65K limit?  Or at least verify that the outer spline isn't above 65k vert?

Not heard of this. Can you explain please.


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#9 jspirate

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Posted 02 July 2019 - 09:14 PM

Not heard of this. Can you explain please.

 

Errr lemme see if I can.

In unity 5 the max number of verts that a mesh can have is 65,XXX.  So, if you have a really big spline with no other splines in it, you will hit the max.  A work around is to place other splines within that spline such that they reduce the number of verts.

 

Example:

You place a huge fairway spline down and it has no bunkers or greens.  If that fairway spline is over 65,XXX verts, you will get a console error and it will not draw.  If you take that same spline and place a green inside of it, the fairway spline vert count is reduced.  If it is reduced to below 65,XXX, then there is no error and unity is happy.


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#10 DPRoberts

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Posted 02 July 2019 - 09:21 PM

Guessing you may have thought jspirate was referencing something else clubcaptain.

Krotus, check out this post by clubcaptain in 2016

http://www.perfectpa...h/?fromsearch=1

#11 clubcaptain

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Posted 03 July 2019 - 11:11 AM

Errr lemme see if I can.

In unity 5 the max number of verts that a mesh can have is 65,XXX.  So, if you have a really big spline with no other splines in it, you will hit the max.  A work around is to place other splines within that spline such that they reduce the number of verts.

 

Example:

You place a huge fairway spline down and it has no bunkers or greens.  If that fairway spline is over 65,XXX verts, you will get a console error and it will not draw.  If you take that same spline and place a green inside of it, the fairway spline vert count is reduced.  If it is reduced to below 65,XXX, then there is no error and unity is happy.

Knew all that bit but never saw any mention of 65 K anywhere. Where would I see those K's. I've just used the "too many vertices" warning as sufficient to highlight the problem exists.


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#12 jspirate

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Posted 03 July 2019 - 01:45 PM

Knew all that bit but never saw any mention of 65 K anywhere. Where would I see those K's. I've just used the "too many vertices" warning as sufficient to highlight the problem exists.

I am not in front of unity ATM, so I don't recall (at work).  I don't usually reference it, but you can find it with some effort. I usually just go by the console message.  Maybe it was in de-bug mode?  Darn if I remember... will see if I can find it tonight when I get home...


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#13 Krotus

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Posted 03 July 2019 - 06:18 PM

Well, I can't really figure out what the issue is with adding a rough spline after the green, bunkers and fairway splines have been built. Any version of a Rough (rough, roughdeep or roughsemi) causes the problem in my original post. I messed around with adjusting the blend depths but, even though it kind of worked, it introduced some other issues, especially some odd bunker shading.

I appreciate all of the advice and examples. The only way I have been able to get everything to work is to draw all of my splines at once (green, bunkers, fairway, roughsemi, rough), fine tune the shapes, then click a node on the Rough spline and build it. That seems to create everything properly and still allow me to make terrain adjustments.

The main focus of this course is simply for me to learn how to create them and to see what the limits are on what I can do. I have 25 years of experience with 3D modeling/rendering so I will also be experimenting with texture and object creation.



#14 jspirate

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Posted 03 July 2019 - 06:31 PM

Well, I can't really figure out what the issue is with adding a rough spline after the green, bunkers and fairway splines have been built. Any version of a Rough (rough, roughdeep or roughsemi) causes the problem in my original post. I messed around with adjusting the blend depths but, even though it kind of worked, it introduced some other issues, especially some odd bunker shading.

I appreciate all of the advice and examples. The only way I have been able to get everything to work is to draw all of my splines at once (green, bunkers, fairway, roughsemi, rough), fine tune the shapes, then click a node on the Rough spline and build it. That seems to create everything properly and still allow me to make terrain adjustments.

The main focus of this course is simply for me to learn how to create them and to see what the limits are on what I can do. I have 25 years of experience with 3D modeling/rendering so I will also be experimenting with texture and object creation.

Odd bunker shading?  How many paint textures are you using?  Sometimes the bunkers get borked when you use too many textures.  I don't know how that would effect the other splines, but I've had it shade the bunkers a weird way.  Almost like half the bunker was in a the shade.


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#15 Joe Habiger

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Posted 03 July 2019 - 06:45 PM

Well, I can't really figure out what the issue is with adding a rough spline after the green, bunkers and fairway splines have been built. Any version of a Rough (rough, roughdeep or roughsemi) causes the problem in my original post. I messed around with adjusting the blend depths but, even though it kind of worked, it introduced some other issues, especially some odd bunker shading.

I appreciate all of the advice and examples. The only way I have been able to get everything to work is to draw all of my splines at once (green, bunkers, fairway, roughsemi, rough), fine tune the shapes, then click a node on the Rough spline and build it. That seems to create everything properly and still allow me to make terrain adjustments.

The main focus of this course is simply for me to learn how to create them and to see what the limits are on what I can do. I have 25 years of experience with 3D modeling/rendering so I will also be experimenting with texture and object creation.

 

Is there a screenshot you can share (use Imgur website, much better), if we saw what you are seeing we might be about to diagnose much better.


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#16 jspirate

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Posted 03 July 2019 - 06:52 PM

Knew all that bit but never saw any mention of 65 K anywhere. Where would I see those K's. I've just used the "too many vertices" warning as sufficient to highlight the problem exists.

 

When I see the console error I sometimes wonder how close I am to the 65k.  This is how I find out.

1.  Select the spline by clicking on it like you are going to adjust it

2.  Once the spline is highlighted you will see a button its number next to the Perfect Parallel logo near the top left of the screen (Arrow 1).  CLICK that button.

3.  Look over to the inspector window and find the "Spline Mesh" component (Arrow 2).  Double click the spline mesh and it will display the mesh in the inspector window (see second pic).

 

Maybe this will help someone even though its probably better off in another thread...

i-vvGF2Sh-X4.jpg

 

 

i-N8MfbTX-X3.jpg


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#17 clubcaptain

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Posted 03 July 2019 - 06:55 PM

Thanks.


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#18 nstone73

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Posted 03 July 2019 - 09:41 PM

Well, I can't really figure out what the issue is with adding a rough spline after the green, bunkers and fairway splines have been built. Any version of a Rough (rough, roughdeep or roughsemi) causes the problem in my original post. I messed around with adjusting the blend depths but, even though it kind of worked, it introduced some other issues, especially some odd bunker shading.

I appreciate all of the advice and examples. The only way I have been able to get everything to work is to draw all of my splines at once (green, bunkers, fairway, roughsemi, rough), fine tune the shapes, then click a node on the Rough spline and build it. That seems to create everything properly and still allow me to make terrain adjustments.

The main focus of this course is simply for me to learn how to create them and to see what the limits are on what I can do. I have 25 years of experience with 3D modeling/rendering so I will also be experimenting with texture and object creation.

Isn't that correct though....you select the rough and hit the build button...the rough is built, and the splines contained within the rough spline (the semi-rough, fairway, green, bunkers etc) are built. You don't select the green spline and hit build, then the bunker spline and hit build.

 

You don't necessarily need to have everything defined before selecting the rough spline and building, but if you do add another spline inside the rough spline (another bunker for example) you select the rough spline and rebuild (you don't select the added bunker)



#19 clubcaptain

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Posted 03 July 2019 - 11:53 PM

Isn't that correct though....you select the rough and hit the build button...the rough is built, and the splines contained within the rough spline (the semi-rough, fairway, green, bunkers etc) are built. You don't select the green spline and hit build, then the bunker spline and hit build.

 

You don't necessarily need to have everything defined before selecting the rough spline and building, but if you do add another spline inside the rough spline (another bunker for example) you select the rough spline and rebuild (you don't select the added bunker)

I do. It's quicker than re-building them all. But it's a matter of choice.


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#20 Krotus

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Posted 04 July 2019 - 12:10 AM

Isn't that correct though....you select the rough and hit the build button...the rough is built, and the splines contained within the rough spline (the semi-rough, fairway, green, bunkers etc) are built. You don't select the green spline and hit build, then the bunker spline and hit build.

 

You don't necessarily need to have everything defined before selecting the rough spline and building, but if you do add another spline inside the rough spline (another bunker for example) you select the rough spline and rebuild (you don't select the added bunker)

I went back and looked at the video tutorial. I guess that is the way Mike Jones did it in the video. My memory was telling me that when I followed along in the video, I was building each spline as I completed it, not drawing them all at the same time and then building them. Shame on me.

So I guess the next question is, if I have a hole that has the green, bunker, fairway and roughsemi splines already built and I want to add a rough, is there a way to do that without it causing the issues that I originally posted about?






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