119 replies to this topic

[Carnoustie]

only the developers should know when thing's are ready to be tested,the main problem with testing for EA for many years was the game core was set in stone by the time the testers got to see it,many many bugs or game flaws were caught in the first few days of testing but the game was too far down the line for most of them to be fixed,please dont let this happen with this game,the sooner the better for testing.

[axe360]

I totally concur!

[KenR]

I'm ready to help test anything you want to push out the door Mike. I'm retired now, have extra time on my hands, and am willing and able to get started. When you're ready, and if you want my help/input for beta testing, just let me know!

[ERASERhead1]

Closed beta:  50-100 people

Makes the feedback manageable and constructive.

The sooner the better.

I have checked this site every day for months now, unsure of what direction you guys were heading and if the game would ever materialize.

Let your community help you guys iron out the kinks and provide feedback before you are too far down the road with a feature/game mode/gameplay mechanic that could end up being detrimental to the overall product, as well as being time consuming.

My biggest fear is that this is nowhere even close to release, and as a result we wait with nothing.  Some people may disagree with this, but I would rather play something as it was getting built and being a part of that building process than waiting two or three times that long for something to be perfect, and having little to no say in the end product.

[Acrilix]

I really have mixed feelings about beta testing. I suppose it really boils down to what it is to be used for. There are obviously two main reasons they are used:

 

1. to find bugs in the code, and

2. to find out what people like/dislike/want.

 

It sounds crazy (and that's because I am!  ) but I personally hope that Perfect Parallel are more interested in number one. In this case, an open beta towards the end is far the best option, as the more people testing, the more likely the possibility of finding the bugs. Modular betas are a different matter however, and could help significantly with testing game mechanic issues early on. IMO The design team should, and indeed already DO know what they are after, and that is to produce the most realistic golf sim/game that there has ever been. I would far rather have one or two people deciding how this game develops than a community with different agendas. All that would achieve is a dumbed down 'try to please all' game that would be no different from all the other 'try to please all' games that have come before. Innovation comes from individuals, not from democracies, and if we are to see something fresh and exciting, then the less people that have a say the better.

 

Beta testers usually have a different agenda anyway. Normally its

 

1. To play the game NOW, rather than later

2. To have the chance to influence decisions and feel special/important

 

At the end of the day, if you want to make money, you listen to the people, because THEY have it. If you want to realise your own vision, then you listen to yourself, because YOU have it.  

[Dazmaniac]

I think the way things are going, there won't be anything to BETA test.

 

It seems all the work is being done behind the scenes by PP, as there seems to be a lack of willingness to release anything for anyone to try - which is usually the whole point behind BETA testing - releasing a product that is well along in development and something that is workable and can be updated and tweaked as we go along by additional builds. As for Perfect Golf the game, this I'm prepared to wait longer for as there is still more work to be done on this to get it anything like a playable golf game.

 

You can't can't tell me Course Forge is not workable, as MJ has converted Crystal Pines, they have made a version of Augusta National for the Sky Sports Masters coverage and MJ has also been releasing screen shots of other elements of the design tool, in the gallery area.

[axe360]

 

Beta testers usually have a different agenda anyway. Normally its

 

1. To play the game NOW, rather than later

2. To have the chance to influence decisions and feel special/important

 

 

Couldn't Disagree more...

[Mick-S]

As far as Perfect Golf is concerned a beta or no beta doesn`t really bother me to much, as Mike has been around computer golf for a long time I am sure he will give us the best game he possibly can, but there may be a few things that just are not possible at this time.

As a course designer Course Forge is a different matter for me so hope we get something to use soon.

[Tigers Agent]

As a course designer Course Forge is a different matter for me so hope we get something to use soon

 

..and as a PC golf player,  Perfect Golf is a different matter to me so hope we get something to play soon.

[Mick-S]

..and as a PC golf player, Perfect Perfect Golf is a different matter to me so hope we get something to play soon.

well that makes the two of us dissapointed, just for different reasons.

[nightowl]

I think the way things are going, there won't be anything to BETA test.

 

It seems all the work is being done behind the scenes by PP, as there seems to be a lack of willingness to release anything for anyone to try - which is usually the whole point behind BETA testing - releasing a product that is well along in development and something that is workable and can be updated and tweaked as we go along by additional builds. As for Perfect Golf the game, this I'm prepared to wait longer for as there is still more work to be done on this to get it anything like a playable golf game.

 

You can't can't tell me Course Forge is not workable, as MJ has converted Crystal Pines, they have made a version of Augusta National for the Sky Sports Masters coverage and MJ has also been releasing screen shots of other elements of the design tool, in the gallery area.

I think we're wasting our breath.  I haven't seen any indication that our opinion on the subject matters.  And by the way, whatever happened to the Terrain Importer Tool?  Wasn't the re-release supposed to be "imminent"?  That was nearly 5 weeks ago.     Like they say, actions speak louder than words. 

[BladeUK]

Most of the work is being done before beta for a reason. A lot of beta testing is to get the game on to numerous PC's for bug testing that the developers haven't seen. There is little point releasing software with 50 known bugs to have the beta testers start reporting them all all and have the developers say "yes we know all about that", constantly. PP have a develpment strategy that they want to stick with and I'm sure they are. CPG gave the game to beta testers as an 'alpha' and worked with the community and we reported loads of stuff only to be told "yes we know all about that already". That was their strategy. PP want to get the game as good as they can before going to beta. That is their strategy. Nothing said here will change their mind but must be annoying for them to read when they are working their butts off to get the game to where they want it to be for beta release. Another thing to remember is that Mike is probably using some developers tools that we would not have access to. I think he commented somewhere that one of the jobs they are doing is improving the user interface before release.

Comments like "We are wasting our breath" can come across as a bit disrespectful, but there is some truth in it because it won't get released just because the community nag about waiting for beta on the forums. Comment after comment stating "I can't wait" will make no difference.


Dave.

 

[Acrilix]

Couldn't Disagree more...

 

So what in your opinion is the reason the majority of people offer to beta test then?   

[axe360]

I sincerely  believe that the majority of people who offer to beta test, want to do just that, beta test.. To do whatever it is PP needs us to do so they can put out a flawless product for all to play..

 

I also think it will just be a small group for beta testing, just my opinion though..

 

 

Peace

[Jimbo63]

Just hope we have something to 'play with' by Christmas. Not too concerned if it is alpha, beta or any other Greek letter

[nightowl]

I would think that it'd be important to PP (esp. as a startup company) to maintain good customer relations.  (But what do I know?)  Two things IMO undermine those efforts:  (1) lack of communication (which was a problem during the Kickstarter phase and since then has continued to be a problem (sometimes weeks go by without any substantive communication -- not even 5-10 minutes' worth); and (2) misleading statements (e.g., the memo that was sent to KS participants after the KS failed, implying that PP would release the CF to us soon; the announcement weeks ago that PP would show a video clip of a hole being played "soon"; the promise that the re-release of the Terrain Importer Tool was "imminent" -- five weeks ago).  I understand that delays will happen; it's a given.  And I have no doubt that the PP crew is working hard to produce a game that might prove in time to be a watershed moment in the history of sim golf.  But would it kill anyone to say, for example, "Our apologies, we ran into a little problem and won't be releasing the Terrain Importer Tool for a while"?  It would be the courteous thing to do.  Instead, the impression is left that PP can't be bothered with something so trivial.

[Acrilix]

I sincerely  believe that the majority of people who offer to beta test, want to do just that, beta test.. To do whatever it is PP needs us to do so they can put out a flawless product for all to play..

 

I also think it will just be a small group for beta testing, just my opinion though..

 

 

Peace

 

Personally, I think this applies to a few people like yourself, but the vast majority of people who offer to beta test are in it for what they can get, not what they can give. That said, I'm a 'glass half empty' guy who doesn't have a very positive view of anything!!   

[VIXEN_VIKKI]

Well speaking on behalf of the female golfers, cannot wait for this game to commence, away from the

housework i am spending all my free time checking the message boards for announcements in hope that

something positive will be released soon but having said that i know from TWO how frustrating bugs can be and

would prefer to wait for a polished game, meantime i am enjoying the forums most of which is friendly and positive

for a change.

[Blackadar]

I sincerely  believe that the majority of people who offer to beta test, want to do just that, beta test.. To do whatever it is PP needs us to do so they can put out a flawless product for all to play..

 

I also think it will just be a small group for beta testing, just my opinion though..

 

 

Peace

 

I respectfully disagree.  Most people don't even know how to beta test software.  In my experience with beta tests - well over a dozen by now - is that the vast majority of people join a beta just to play the game and if a bug happens to come along, they'll report it.  In that regard, they're far more interested in playing the game and that's what they're focused on.  Most people won't try to hit the tower way off the fairway on #12 simply because it's there.  They'll try to make birdie.  People won't look behind the tee on #8 because they're considering how to ht the approach shot over water.

 

This doesn't mean that their reports aren't valuable.  After all, the development team can get a lot of good feedback from a beta.  It can be valuable.  Teams can get great feedback on how the game plays, the compatibility of different pieces of hardware and bug reports.  So a beta is a good thing.

 

As far as this game & course designer goes, if there's a beta, I think it will be a very late one.  The PP team has continually demonstrated that they play it close to the vest when actually showing their product.  "Soon" for AJ & Co. is a relative term.  It means "a shorter time span than it took for ZZ top to grow out their beards".  But that's their right.  Personally, the only thing I expect from them beyond a great finished product is that IF they do have a beta, those of us who tried to put down our dollars during the kickstarter have earned the right to be involved.  I don't believe that's an unrealistic expectation and that doesn't mean that a beta needs to exclude others who didn't fund the kickstarter campaign.  It just means that the team at PP are living up to their prior commitments that KS backers would get first dibs.  

[Acrilix]

I think Blackadar's view pretty much reflects my own. Most people who offer to beta test just want to have some early fun. They do provide some useful info on occasions, but they don't do a proper job beta testing. I've been beta testing my own computer work since the 1980's, and for the most part, fun it ain't! Most of the time it's tedious. While testing courses I've created recently, my scores go to pot as I'm focused on the possible flaws at every stroke. There are many so called 'beta tested' courses I've played on Links where I've found faults on the first casual round I've played on them. These are things that should have been found straight away by these so called 'testers' if they were doing their job properly, but they were obviously too busy playing golf to look for them!! Beta testers need to be inquisitive and methodical. They need to question everything, and look under every stone. There aren't that many people willing to put in that effort needed to do a good job, including me at the moment, if I'm honest.

The problem for the developers is there is no way to tell who are the right people for the job. I imagine PP will, and already are, resorting to using testers they have previous experience of from previous projects at apcd-courses.com. I don't think most people will get a look in until the game is near completion, and that's probably a good thing (the impatient players/'testers' may not agree though!!  )