49 replies to this topic

[Dazmaniac]

As Ian says, my main irk is the lack of updates when they know things are taking longer than expected to get released.

I am in no way criticising the game, as from what we have seen, it looks fantastic, but that is all we have had. We are still waiting for hands on with the game itself. I'm sure once we do get hands on, the comments will be plenty, but until now I'm happy to wait patiently with the rest of the community but just ask PP to keep us a little more in the loop when there are delays or further testing of content required before release.

[karma4u]

Understood. My comments were not aimed at anyone, just a general observation. See you on the course. Cheers.

[olazaboll]

 

Can PP offer any ETA's for:-

 

Course Forge Nov / Dec 2013 Version 1.0

 

Alpha Physics Test Build (Update) Not sure if we will release another one but if we do it will be Nov / Dec 2013 and allow you to load courses you make with CF

 

Terrain Importer Will be released as a Beta - there are some bugs we have had no time to iron out - with Course Forge.

 

Perfect Golf (Demo) Goal is Beta Release Winter 2013:  (Dec - Mar) 

 

Obviously the E in ETA is Estimated, so I'm not looking for exact release date, but if the intention is still of some limited form of playable game to be made available in 2013, we don't have long left as it is nearly mid October and so far all the community has had to play with is the 1st build of the Alpha Physics tool.

 

 

Interesting info from AJ on DAZ´s question ... but I could hardly read a thing with the yellow colurered font , so I just changed it to green , If someone else are interested to read

[mjhamilton113]

I need to design. NOWWWWWW!! I'm gonna lose my mind drawing golf holes

[Dazmaniac]

They (AJ) have touted the Course Forge being available Nov/Dec 2013.

 

IMO, that just implies it will be mid-late Dec 2013 before we get it (maybe before Christmas). Offering such a wide timeframe always hints it will be later rather than sooner. If they knew it would be available in November, there is no reason to include December in the proposed release date.

 

Same for the Perfect Golf Demo. My thinking is it will be sometime in Q1 in 2014. Saying release is Dec '13 - Mar '14 just smells of later rather than sooner.

 

Hope they prove me wrong.

 

[Kablammo11]

I need to design. NOWWWWWW!! I'm gonna lose my mind drawing golf holes

 

There's plenty you can do NOWWWWWWW, mj:

 

Learning Unity, for instance.

Transferring your drawings into photoshop, importing them into Unity and project them on top of a terrain.

Learning more Unity.

Creating a height map in photoshop and importing it into your terrain. (Or just import any geographic location with the importer for non-Mac users)

Smoothing out your heightmap, adding finer contours, getting a feel for how your design plays in 3D.

Iterating your course layout and heightmaps umpteen times until they work. (Sorry, iterating is computer talk for starting over and over again)

Learning still more Unity.

Construct a skybox that will complement your design.

Constructing mesh objects: Hills, cliff faces, clubhouse, benches, rain shelters, tee markers, rocks, bridges.

Creating the textures for these mesh objects.

Learning an awful lot more about Unity.

Perhaps creating trees and bushes.

Then saving each tree and bush 3 times with Y rotations of 0, 120 and 240 degrees so that they don't look all cheaply copy-pasted when you plant them.

 

Because the myth of "Ease of use" of the CourseForge will melt away about as quickly as a Snowflake in a thermonuclear explosion if you haven't done your homework by the time the Forge becomes available. Believe you me, buddy: You can't just sit down with the Forge and expect to have a good-looking, fine-playing course ready in a few days.

I'm not writing this to discourage you or just for the sake of being snarky. After having dabbled for quite some time and merely scratched the surface, I do worry that some of you might get discouraged too quickly and give up too soon once the Forge appears. Happened to me half a dozen times already, btw. Stuff that wouldn't work, gruesomely unforgiving folder hierarchies, restrictions and limitations imposed on the free version of Unity etc...  You will get pummeled by one downer after the next, with minute discoveries of painfully obvious stuff nobody ever bothered to describe making you go on, until you bump into the next obstacle. Just go read the nerd-chat on the Unity support forums, all about scripting, LOD, draw counts and triplanar projections...  

The good news about this is that in this day or age there seems to be no easier or better way to go about designing golf courses. I am convinced that there is no better alternative to Unity. But those who claim that it will be easy, well, they have another thing coming...  So start prepping and mind the curve.

 

Suggestion to the god-like creatures in charge of ignoring us here: You might want to start a Unity/CourseForge basics online program, the kind of noobie step-by-step vademecum, "Unity for idiots", well BEFORE the Forge is published.

[Perculator]

There's plenty you can do NOWWWWWWW, mj:

 

Learning Unity, for instance.

Transferring your drawings into photoshop, importing them into Unity and project them on top of a terrain.

Learning more Unity.

Creating a height map in photoshop and importing it into your terrain. (Or just import any geographic location with the importer for non-Mac users)

Smoothing out your heightmap, adding finer contours, getting a feel for how your design plays in 3D.

Iterating your course layout and heightmaps umpteen times until they work. (Sorry, iterating is computer talk for starting over and over again)

Learning still more Unity.

Construct a skybox that will complement your design.

Constructing mesh objects: Hills, cliff faces, clubhouse, benches, rain shelters, tee markers, rocks, bridges.

Creating the textures for these mesh objects.

Learning an awful lot more about Unity.

Perhaps creating trees and bushes.

Then saving each tree and bush 3 times with Y rotations of 0, 120 and 240 degrees so that they don't look all cheaply copy-pasted when you plant them.

 

Because the myth of "Ease of use" of the CourseForge will melt away about as quickly as a Snowflake in a thermonuclear explosion if you haven't done your homework by the time the Forge becomes available. Believe you me, buddy: You can't just sit down with the Forge and expect to have a good-looking, fine-playing course ready in a few days.

I'm not writing this to discourage you or just for the sake of being snarky. After having dabbled for quite some time and merely scratched the surface, I do worry that some of you might get discouraged too quickly and give up too soon once the Forge appears. Happened to me half a dozen times already, btw. Stuff that wouldn't work, gruesomely unforgiving folder hierarchies, restrictions and limitations imposed on the free version of Unity etc...  You will get pummeled by one downer after the next, with minute discoveries of painfully obvious stuff nobody ever bothered to describe making you go on, until you bump into the next obstacle. Just go read the nerd-chat on the Unity support forums, all about scripting, LOD, draw counts and triplanar projections...  

The good news about this is that in this day or age there seems to be no easier or better way to go about designing golf courses. I am convinced that there is no better alternative to Unity. But those who claim that it will be easy, well, they have another thing coming...  So start prepping and mind the curve.

 

Suggestion to the god-like creatures in charge of ignoring us here: You might want to start a Unity/CourseForge basics online program, the kind of noobie step-by-step vademecum, "Unity for idiots", well BEFORE the Forge is published.

 

So, are you saying that this video http://www.perfectpa... blowing smoke?

[mjhamilton113]

Thanks for the ideas kablammo. I have messed with unity a little but when I golf holes in my head I just start sketching lol.

I have two fictional designs mapped out and drawn to scale on paper. One I actually posted to Linkscorner about 8 months ago just to gain feedback and whether I should attempt in APCD but I decided against it because so much depended on using the real plot of land I had chosen and it's true elevations. This for me was always tricky in APCD and honestly what I'm looking forward to most in CF. For me the terrain importer is going to be a make or break tool because I personally find it fascinating to create a fictional course on an already existing piece of land with real world issues like sharp elevation, ledge, signature trees, and water issues.

I am also very proficient in Photoshop which is great, and have tried doing height maps and course maps and such in there.

[mjhamilton113]

Thanks for the ideas kablammo. I have messed with unity a little but when I golf holes in my head I just start sketching lol.

I have two fictional designs mapped out and drawn to scale on paper. One I actually posted to Linkscorner about 8 months ago just to gain feedback and whether I should attempt in APCD but I decided against it because so much depended on using the real plot of land I had chosen and it's true elevations. This for me was always tricky in APCD and honestly what I'm looking forward to most in CF. For me the terrain importer is going to be a make or break tool because I personally find it fascinating to create a fictional course on an already existing piece of land with real world issues like sharp elevation, ledge, signature trees, and water issues.

I am also very proficient in Photoshop which is great, and have tried doing height maps and course maps and such in there.

[Kablammo11]

So, are you saying that this video http://www.perfectpa... blowing smoke?

 

What I'm saying is that a few minutes of video are not enough to prepare you for the real thing. They are not blowing smoke, everything depicted in the vids is how it works. But they didn't show how to work with water (let alone get a water going that features reflections and refractions - because the free Unity version can't do that), how to incorporate particle effects, how to set up a wind zone, and many other things you will need. In all fairness, these are "Geting started" videos and they show trained pros doing their job at getting started, making every little thing look just easy- but when you fire up your own Unity all of the sudden the little things will not easy any more. And this is just about "getting started"...

 

So, yeah, there's a bit of a learning curve and A LOT to try and do and learn with Unity even without the Forge being available. Either that or I am a negative, utter buffoon who is easily confused by easy-peasy stuff that the average Joe gets sorted out with both hands tied in his back. Pick one.

 

mj: I know what you are talking about, I use the train a lot in my home country and glide past so many blessed spots where there simply should be a golf course and where the contours are almost begging me to golfify them. Show me half an acre of greenery and I will start to mind-plant flags on it... Good luck with your project. 

[IanD]

Hopefully, once the CF begins it's release and spreads throughout our community, we can begin to see some tutorials appear in stages, avoiding some pitfalls I'm sure some are becoming aware of. Hopefully a new Forum will become available here regarding Tutorials, and they host them on this site..

[Perculator]

What I'm saying is that a few minutes of video are not enough to prepare you for the real thing. They are not blowing smoke, everything depicted in the vids is how it works. But they didn't show how to work with water (let alone get a water going that features reflections and refractions - because the free Unity version can't do that), how to incorporate particle effects, how to set up a wind zone, and many other things you will need. In all fairness, these are "Geting started" videos and they show trained pros doing their job at getting started, making every little thing look just easy- but when you fire up your own Unity all of the sudden the little things will not easy any more. And this is just about "getting started"...

 

So, yeah, there's a bit of a learning curve and A LOT to try and do and learn with Unity even without the Forge being available. Either that or I am a negative, utter buffoon who is easily confused by easy-peasy stuff that the average Joe gets sorted out with both hands tied in his back. Pick one.

 

mj: I know what you are talking about, I use the train a lot in my home country and glide past so many blessed spots where there simply should be a golf course and where the contours are almost begging me to golfify them. Show me half an acre of greenery and I will start to mind-plant flags on it... Good luck with your project. 

 

I sure would love it if one (or both) of the Jones boys would jump in regarding this. To me, the way that video looked it was all in a nice package ready to rock.

[Barry]

I remember the excitement when the APCD first appeared at LC every night so many posts asking questions about how to overcome a problem. I think the Course Forge will generate just as much interest. I was all over the APCD studying tutorials but in those days WireLS was such a busy place to play online with your mates I started playing all the time and lost interest in the APCD. But I'm very much looking forward to diving into the CF

[Kablammo11]

I sure would love it if one (or both) of the Jones boys would jump in regarding this. To me, the way that video looked it was all in a nice package ready to rock.

That will be the party line, no doubt. And I assure you that I'm all in favor of "ready to rock". I have no worries about the golfing part of the deal, btw... Fairways and greens and rough and hazards look gorgeous and I think they will be easy to apply; but getting the surrounding landscape right, the water, a bit of variety in the foliiage, the places where the golfing intersects with the remainder of the environment, that will be a different thing. Be that as may, my main point is:

- You can't just waltz into Unity, fire up the Forge and get some nifty golf course done "hey presto!". You have got to be prepared to invest the days and weeks it takes to come to grips with Unity first, then with the Forge. imho not a walk in the park.

[mjhamilton113]

"I remember the excitement when the APCD first appeared at LC every night so many posts asking questions about how to overcome a problem. I think the Course Forge will generate just as much interest. I was all over the APCD studying tutorials but in those days WireLS was such a busy place to play online with your mates I started playing all the time and lost interest in the APCD. But I'm very much looking forward to diving into the CF"

That is the only way I would have learned APCD and even now there are things I could learn so for me I feel the same way.

[Acrilix]

Perculator and K11 - I think both of your views will end up being correct. I think for people who want to create generic courses with hills, fairways a few trees and some 'simple' water features, the CourseForge will be an easier alternative than previous design programs. I do believe though that the top designers that emerge for this game will have to have a thorough grasp of Unity to create the more 'impressive' courses that people will crave, after the initial excitement dies down a little.

At the moment I have neither the energy due to health issues, or the desire to learn something new, and so I've been soldiering on with what I am comfortable with - APCD. As I still love playing Links, this is fine for me at this time. If, when Perfect Golf appears, I find I am no longer playing Links and Perfect Golf takes priority, then I'm sure I'll end up switching to CourseForge too, but until then, learning Unity just looks like too much hard work for my feeble mind to cope with!   

[Perculator]

Perculator and K11 - I think both of your views will end up being correct. I think for people who want to create generic courses with hills, fairways a few trees and some 'simple' water features, the CourseForge will be an easier alternative than previous design programs. I do believe though that the top designers that emerge for this game will have to have a thorough grasp of Unity to create the more 'impressive' courses that people will crave, after the initial excitement dies down a little.

At the moment I have neither the energy due to health issues, or the desire to learn something new, and so I've been soldiering on with what I am comfortable with - APCD. As I still love playing Links, this is fine for me at this time. If, when Perfect Golf appears, I find I am no longer playing Links and Perfect Golf takes priority, then I'm sure I'll end up switching to CourseForge too, but until then, learning Unity just looks like too much hard work for my feeble mind to cope with!   

Well sir, your APCD courses are top notch and I hope your health issues improve. Look forward to whatever you choose to do here or there.

[Keith]

Kablammo11's point about tinkering with Unity often can't be overstated.  It can be frustrating, but when you break down some of the barriers and start to "get it" it can be addictive and fun.  It is a powerful tool and there are enough free terrain assets available at the Unity store to populate and create some nice looking scenes.  Tutorials on youtube are extremely helpful.  I recently created a tropical island scene following a tutorial that looks quite good.  That said I am sure I will be banging my head against the wall and posting plenty of questions here when CF is released.  But at least now it appears creating a course is something that is doable. 

Acrilix..sorry about the health probs.  Been going through some of that myself.  Hang in there.

[Kablammo11]

At the moment I have neither the energy due to health issues, or the desire to learn something new...

 

To your good health, Acrilix. But do not underestimate the strong therapeutic value of learning new stuff. 

[Acrilix]

I'm still learning with the APCD!   

With every course I create I find new challenges and new methods of working. Much of it I have down pat now, but there are always different ways - better or quicker - to do things as well.