67 replies to this topic

[IanD]

The Other Thoughts

 

• Starting Position of Down Swing

Think personally it should begin from your Upswing Click. If acceleration is included then it would aid in ensuring the Swing is smooth.

 

• Ball Lie

This could also be a defining element to help decide the size of the snap circle. Sitting nicely in the rough may mean contact with the ball is easy, but the final 4th click in perhaps Purist Mode would be quite difficult to impact distance correctly.

 

If the ball is deep in the undergrowth and we don't want to see the snap circle reduced considerably, then add the faded downswing I previously suggested, to obscure the final part of the downswing. Personally I think this would be a great inclusion for those types of shots where you cannot really see your ball, or enough of the sides, to gain good impact.

 

[Kablammo11]

@IanD

I usually would quote your quotes on my swing meter suggestion, but this would have made for too much lenghty repetition, obstructing the flow of this thread...

 

Thank you for your in-depth analysis of my comments and I'm very glad you concur on many of my thoughts. You are of course very right about pointing out the great unknown dimension in this: The equipment attributes hinted at by MJ during this summer, presumably all evolving around trade-offs between distance, accuracy and spin. 

Perhaps we would need to know about these since, together with the swing meter proper, they combine into an integrated swing system...

 

As for my suggestions, they are just that, yes I missed to add the 100% dot. And also, the transition from upswing to holding on top to downswing did not turn out as smooth as it need be. There are only two things I want to advocate at this stage: Bring the 50% mark closer to 12'o'clock and accelerate the down swing for more difficulty.

 

As for difficulty modes, here is a quick sketch of how easy and advanced difficulties could differ. 

 

I feel, btw, that chipping and pitching and especially putting should each have swing meter types of their own. I remember from real life that they are pretty different shots that can not be described by one and the same meter.

 

Ian, I sometimes cringe a little when I hear the word "purist". I know you do not consider this to be cringeworthy and I really don't blame you in any way and do not wish to make a big deal out of it, but "Purists", what- and whoever they may be in whichever field of endeavor, are always a very small and sometime zealous minority. In other words, they always will be the exception, not the rule. The PP guys having a purist streak themselves, I'm pretty sure they will offer features and options that will cater to the somewhat eclectic purist persuasion. Heck, I even like purism for the sake of it being so not mainstream at all! Still: Let's make this game great for everybody, not just for the chose few.

 

Thank you once again.

[axe360]

I can appreciate the need for these aiming thingys, things,  for the casual golfer, I just hope we have options to play on a more advanced/expert level "FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO", so options to turn them off would be needed, please..

[bortimus]

Kablammo, 

I really liked the swing meters you posted. Very minimal and non-intrusive.  The less stuff on the screen the better for me.  It's also nice how the chip and putt meters LOOKED like those type of swings.  The thought of no lines/dotes on an expert level is both exciting and scary as hell at the same time, but I like it. 

 

IanD,

I find your idea of an obstructed part of the downswing interesting too.  Relying more on feel/tempo as opposed to just watching the meter go down.  The downswing is somewhat unconscious in reality, and I like the idea of trying to replicate that on a screen.  

[IanD]

K11..

 

Well, it's amusing to see how our thoughts converge regarding where you were, and what I added earlier before seeing your post. I've added the image below ;

 

[IanD]

K11 (Cont'd)

 

As for your level of difficulty (forgive me, I think your images deserve a place in their own right here), I'm wavering on the initial proposal you have below ;

 

 

To aid in any players progression to another level, I personally think the positions for 50%, 60% etc should not change. If there is a degree in difficulty then it should mainly occur in either the snap or the meter speed. However, the same could be argued against any variation in meter speed albeit the area where we enter the Club, Shaft and Grip area. So what I'm really saying is moot...

 

Maybe the Custom design of the actual Clubs themselves would change the distances achievable.. therefore allowing the 50%, 60% to more constant in position.

 

 

These I love...

 

Nothing more to add really... they simply work for me.

[bortimus]

IanD,

Interesting point in the previous post about where the difficulty should lie (snap or meter speed)

I'm wondering if it would make sense to have the distance/direction penalty for all clubs be the same on all difficulty levels, and as you said, have the snap/meter speed be the variation.  Unlike other golf games, where easier levels had more forgiving clubs, like real golf, a driver is a driver, the only difference is who is swinging the club.

[Mike Jones]

I like them a lot too! 

[bortimus]

oops double post

[Kablammo11]

Thanks all for receiving my suggestions so well. So much to say and so many parameters to fiddle with…

 

Good question by IanD: Should increased difficulty occur in the snap and meter speed only? I don't subscribe to the notion that mastering a crazy fast meter speed should be the hallmark of an expert player. A swing is a swing, IRL as well as in pc golf. It's not faster or slower, it has a constant rhythm. Same for the snap: A good snap is a good snap, no matter if there's a clumsy duffer or a delicate pro delivering it. 

Imho difficulty should be achieved by reducing visual aids (on the swing meter and on the course) and by increasing the value of RHYTHM. As others have said, getting a good whiplash acceleration towards the bottom of the swing meter does the trick - the snap zone becomes harder to hit sweetly and the player needs to commit to the rhythm of his stroke rather than just react quickly to the visual feedback given him by the swing in progress. 

 

Quite frankly, I'm very glad that I'm in the grateful position of just recommending any sort of stuff that shoots through my skull. Imagine you had the actual responsibility to actually create an actual swing meter for the hottest golf game in town - and at the same time to please so many different people with different opinions… oy vey!

[Dazmaniac]

All of K11's swingmeters look great. Very un-obtrusive and could be placed in a number of areas on the screen without blocking the view.

 

Especially liking the putter meter. That sir, is a work of art.

 

In your example, is the intention to have the Expert level with the same percentage power points for 50%, 60%, 70%, 80% and 90% as the Intermediate swing but just hidden?

 

[olazaboll]

Thinking of it .... doesnt the recent displayed swingmeters reflect a "lefty" player ...... ..... but shouldnt they really be "mirrored" instead if you are are a right handed player ....  It would problably s*r*w with a lot of peoples mind , bcs I know click swings have looked liked this since the mammots died out,,,,, but its just a thought 

[IanD]

Olazaboll... I know what you mean. Personally, the only image I'd reverse for right handed players above, would be the Putting image. The rest works for me.. however.. why differentiate..?

 

Who's to say right or left handed IS the way to play?

 

The Animation may be an option to select which you'd prefer, so WHY not be able to suitably select any Swing Meter orientation for ANY purpose. For example, use the Right Handed Swing Meter on Fairway and Left Handed Meter for Putting..

[IanD]

AND....

 

Mike... for you really, something to add to you guys developing... when this gets going..

 

Can we have an option to NOT include the Animation ? I'm kind of liking the first view perspective currently shown in this thread and Alpha. If K11's Swing Meter was used, it would so unobtrusive...!

 

I love the thought of having the complete screen unobstructed, and seeing the whole course with a transparent swing meter.

[bortimus]

IanD,
Good thought about having the option to not show the animation. It would be nice to toggle through 4-5 different views and let the player chose. Curious though, if in a 1st person view, would you see the ball on the ground? Not from behind I mean, but as though you are looking down at it as you set up and swing.

[Davefevs]

Gentlemen.....I do think you are onto something! Some great ideas coming through and whetting the appetite.

[JoeF]

I'm really enjoying the ideas being put forward, they're great....and I don't click!

Looking forward to hearing what they will be doing with mouse based swings.

[IanD]

IanD,
Good thought about having the option to not show the animation. It would be nice to toggle through 4-5 different views and let the player chose. Curious though, if in a 1st person view, would you see the ball on the ground? Not from behind I mean, but as though you are looking down at it as you set up and swing.

 

I personally don't see why not. I grabbed another image from K11's video, (ensuring you know it is HIS visual).

 

He delightfully shows a low level shot behind the ball, looking ahead at the hole.

 

Remember the Alpha Build program the guys here released, allowing us to literally move wherever we wanted on the course?

I believe this is the freedom the guys here wanted us to have.

 

So, again, keeping with OPTIONS.. why not have the ability to select, WHEN MOVING TO NEXT BALL POSITION ;

 

• Ground level, behind ball
• Player Level, behind ball (6ft above ball)
• Behind Green, looking back at ball
• Overhead
• Behind Animation
• Opposite Animation (side on, Caddy Position)

 

Maybe more positions can be defined in another area. I'm beginning to feel there is a NEED for a CUSTOM GOLFER SETUP.

This would be where we literally tinker with exactly what we want regarding Swing setup, Swing Animation (if req'd), Meter Position, etc.

[Kablammo11]

All of K11's swingmeters look great. Very un-obtrusive and could be placed in a number of areas on the screen without blocking the view.

 

Especially liking the putter meter. That sir, is a work of art.

 

In your example, is the intention to have the Expert level with the same percentage power points for 50%, 60%, 70%, 80% and 90% as the Intermediate swing but just hidden?

 

 

Thanks Daz. Nothing about my designs is cast in stone. About the expert swing meter, the more ambtious players most likely will hit the driving range and produce a power chart telling them which club travels how far at which percentage (0 being 6'o'clock and 100 being 12'o'clock). I'm sure I will. So it's almost moot if the 50-90percentages will be the same as in intermediate or even more severely positioned.

There is only so much you can suss out about these things by staring at video or images. In this instance, as in so many others, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. I, for one, mustn't pretend that I have it all figured out in full detail. I haven't.

 

@IanD, above:  ...he delightfully shows a low level shot behind the ball, looking ahead at the hole.

Man, I just wanted some sort of background image. No delight involved, nor any sort of deeper meaning: I didn't think about cam positions then, I just needed some golf mood. Sorry   

[IanD]

I'm bigging you up geezer... go with it lol..