64 replies to this topic

[IanD]

Bless it... 2 mins of my life gone....

 

My thoughts are with some of the deeper possabilities regarding what's hopefully possible. This isn't a Unity image, but it's worth showing ;

 

 

Now I'd love to see the possibles in terms of what can be achieved regarding textures as I feel there is more to them alone, within Unity. A better example from Unity (not from me) is perhaps this ;

 

 

This is mainly down to the terrain bumpness that can be achieved once you begin defining your texture inside Unity.

 

Now, whether this is only worth using in the areas I'm showing, ie not on fairway/green/tees etc, and only perhaps on paths or rough areas - I don't know. I'm still experiementing myself. I'd love to hear other's thoughts and see examples of what they have achieved..

[IanD]

Well, I've given it some and whilst yet to work with the types of textures above, I wanted to get a reasonable texture to fairways.. this isn't bad... maybe not perfect but it's the best I've achieved at this level of knowledge..

 

 

It gives the impression the fairway has been trodden a few times, and for greater effect of what I'm trying to achieve, you can see the sand in the bunker really showing some nice texture.

 

This image below is with both fairway and sand showing no second bump texture...

 

 

Hopefully this helps show what can be achieved...

[axe360]

Hands down, the bottom pic looks gr8 to me... Very nice work IanD

[Kablammo11]

Paging Mr. Jones: I think IanD has just qualified for taking the current Forge out for a spin...

 

IandD, don't be afraid to reduce the bumpiness of your normal maps to very tiny values like 0.008 or so. The sliders are too small to reliable set values, so type in small values by hand. Sometimes all it takes is just a tiny smidgen...

To properly evaluate the bumpiness, you need to move into a player POV position.

Also, I don't really like that Sycamore tree model, something weird about it.  

[IanD]

Appreciate the comments...

 

axe360 (reply); in a way so do I... however, I don't feel all courses should be shown that way. Granted, known real courses are maintained and well kept. I would not expect anything less from those courses.. however, those courses I've played are far from that standard lol. But my point isn't really about achieving the right fairway texture, even though it's likely out there. Most fairways are not as smooth as the second image either.. they have divot marks, trolley lines and golfcart tyre tracks all in the texture too. Add to that the various shades of grass where it's over watered or dried and you could mistake any texture being used on the fairway.

I've yet to see the CF, and have felt several textures could (and perhaps should) be used within the same type of texture. There may be an area where two fairway textures could be used within the same hole, one typically showing the landing area many achieve, with divots and ball marks etc. Tees could be improved with improved bump textures, showing  perhaps the increased useage to one side of the tee area. Even greens could be enhanced visually with variations too.

 

Hopefully the images above simply show what's capable and give someone with far more talent than I possess, a great aim. Before the APCD arrived, who'd heard of Mike Jones...? So.. who else is out there we've yet to meet..?

 

K11 (reply) ; The bump slider is a really nifty bit of kit. I had been utilizing the 0.01 increments and busting a ball to see the results, and whether to document it or not.. it's an arduous task especially as I like clearing my textures before I close Unity for the day. Thanks for the POV suggestion... and as for that Sycamore... lol..

[Kablammo11]

I've yet to see the CF, and have felt several textures could (and perhaps should) be used within the same type of texture. There may be an area where two fairway textures could be used within the same hole, one typically showing the landing area many achieve, with divots and ball marks etc. Tees could be improved with improved bump textures, showing  perhaps the increased useage to one side of the tee area. Even greens could be enhanced visually with variations too.

 

In CF, you get 1 texture per mesh and that's it. You can not paint textures onto that 1 texture.

But you can create child meshes: A slightly different kind of fairway texture inside another fairway texture. And that child mesh could even have a different "physics material" assigned to: The outer fairway could have "fast fairway" physics - the child fairway inside it can have "normal fairway" physics, so that the ball behavior would change when it crosses from one to the next. You could pepper each one fairway of each hole with dozens of slightly different child meshes if you wanted… 

I have not experimented with that sort of variety yet - without a game to play-test it, it's a bit moot.

 

For divots and ball marks and general small blemishes, I suspect that these are best achieved with Decals. Imagine them like partially transparent bumper stickers that you can stick on any surface - sounds ideal for divots, both fresh ones and the ones filled from the sand bucket... Now that is an area of Unity that, as of yet, needs to be expanded into and explored properly for its course design potential…  

[axe360]

Totally agree IanD.. Variety ls the spice of life.. Thanks for the reply..

[Mike Jones]

In CF, you get 1 texture per mesh and that's it. 

 

Actually that's not really correct. We have 2 as you know per individual mesh. How those two are blended together we can alter internally whether it be a 'normal' texture or a multiply blend etc . Whether we unlock other features instead of the standard two texture blend we haven't decided as yet, I guess it depends on the benefits we might have for the average user versus the expert.

 

My thoughts are we would probably keep it 'as is' for the first release and then potentially add features depending on whether the included features where being used to their full potential.

[Mike Jones]

 

For divots and ball marks and general small blemishes, I suspect that these are best achieved with Decals. Imagine them like partially transparent bumper stickers that you can stick on any surface - sounds ideal for divots, both fresh ones and the ones filled from the sand bucket... Now that is an area of Unity that, as of yet, needs to be expanded into and explored properly for its course design potential…  

 

I agree, would love some experimentation in this area should the urge strike! 

[IanD]

Haha.. Go Mike the Task Master.. !

[IanD]

Only a quick look into Decals.. but what do you know... another world of things to learn lol..

 

So... I love the expanse of having sooo many options. It's a huge benefit for anyone wanting to create something specific and unique to a particular hole. I've only skipped over the details regarding Decals, but it has great potential.

 

As for meshes, I've not properly tackled this. I love the idea of having inner child meshes regarding a parent mesh. I've longed for seeing fairways react differently across individual holes. Fairways next to water may play alot softer than those elevated and pitched rolling ones. A back 9 can seriously change from the front 9 when playing a round of 18 holes, and whilst the changes shouldn't be huge, sometimes the edge of a fairway should roll faster than the centre (and vice versa). This doesn't need to show any visual changes however.. so hopefully the same texture can simply be applied and the physics adjusted. But add a closer cropped fairway texture around a waters edge, and you'd be dicing with a drop if you got too close. What I do wonder is how close can the inner child meshes be to the parent edge ?

 

Another thought, can an applied fairway shape be lowered below another shape, ie water. By lowering the terrain after applying a fairway and moving it into another applied shape (lake), will it create problems ?

 

As for Decals, they appear (?) to not have any properties but purely visual effects. So I think I can see what would be the differential benefits once I understand the CF better...

 

I think.. lol..

[IanD]

Hoping this image helps ask the question regarding the inner child meshes and being able to lower the terrain below the water mesh..

 

[shimonko]

And I thought K11's courses were brutal! 

[IanD]

It isn't exactly something I have in mind, as we know, most waters edges have a border where it can't be easily maintained. However, I've yet to see exactly what the CF offers regarding this complete shaping and mesh structure.  There may be times where you'd want to create something "different" too... as I often have some weird fantasy hole designs in my head. I did try a moon golf course design using the APCD, although once someone else had got alot further I gave it up and simply helped with a few aspects of it. One course I did try and go further with, was a winters course. I had what i felt were reasonable textures, with frosty fairways and partly covered cuts and rough, however without the ability to make the physics of the course change, it wasn't worth it. I never stayed around long enough to see the improvements fully with the later patches of Links.

 

This possability or an ability to push shapes/meshes can hopefully offer some creativity..

[Kablammo11]

Ian, I don't quite understand what you aim to achieve with this line of mesh handling. So, for what it is worth...

• A CF mesh is basically like any other object. You can highlight it and move it in space, rotate and resize it at will

• The spacial 3D aspect of a CF mesh is defined by the elevation of the terrain underneath it. The terrain is the mold for the shape of your shape. 

• Once the CF mesh has been calculated, you do not necessarily need the terrain mold any more (island greens and bulkheads are best created by lowering the terrain after the mesh on top has been calculated and remains "hanging" in space.)

• It would also appear that raising the water level might achieve the same effect and be a quicker way to create a similar setup. And that would only take 2 seconds

 

I know this sounds a bit dismissive - and it isn't meant that way - but a lot will only make sense to you, or anybody else, once you actually have the CF. Until then it's almost impossible to describe in words how it will be like… A bit like trying to explain the color pink to a blind person. But unlike that blind person, whom I salute, you, one day, will see...

 

Brutal, shinmonko? Bit too soon to know… Willow Heath should be challenging, I hope, but always fair, rewarding the good shots and punishing the bad ones.

[shimonko]

Way too soon. It was your holes running along the cliffs from many months ago that had me shaking. 

(And imagining the course's liability insurance premiums.)

[IanD]

Did we lose the site temporarily for 24hrs..? I had the server down 24hrs ago and this morning.. no-one else.. just me...? Found my coat outside too... someone telling me something..?

[JoeF]

It was down for me as well. Started having withdrawal symptoms.

[Dazmaniac]

Yes MJ posted over @ LinksCorner that the site had been down for around 10 hrs or so (reasons not known).

 

[highfade]

Really, this is a green. Not cool

 

I find the decals quite a steep learning curve and it also involves a lot of photoshop work (Gimp for me) but hopefully someone (read, hint, K11) will do some great decal textures.