123 replies to this topic

[AwYea]

I have no complaints about time it takes and agree completely with what your saying Daz.

 

I just brought it up because i'll probably hang in career mode when it's all said in done. It's nice knowing i can knockout a tournament in a day and play a full season in a reasonable amount of time @ Am lvl.

[Mike Jones]

frank70, on 08 Mar 2016 - 12:33 PM, said:

That's right Mike. Just curious: Do you think that timing (ratio) is equally dominant playing real golf as it is now in the game? I mean you had the ball/spin physics pre-patch for more than a year. Did you change it because it is more realistic or did you change it for strategical reasons within the game?

 

I just find it odd, that the ball jumps to the left by a good margin when i hit an 8 iron with a 0.24 ratio. I just felt more natural before the patch (although the penalty was a little bit on the low side). But the combination of all three aspects of the swing felt just natural and produced beautiful different ballflights. Right now if you hit a ball with 1 outside/in and a mishit of 5 toe you barely can see the effect. Before the patch you had this gentle fade. These nuances are almost gone and guys with a straight swing plane are sort of "penalized". Ratio is so dominant. Being able to swing straight is a skill after all - and should be worth as much as having a good tempo.

There is no 'ratio' in real golf, it's a game control mechanic so you can move the clubface alignment independently of the swing path. We tweaked the penalty for the very best players in the game (tour pro level) based on their feedback (including yours) so that they would find the difficulty level in regard to end distances to target more in line with real golf stats. We agreed and made the change accordingly.

 

The only way to truly simulate a real golf swing is with a real golf club on a full size sim but obviously this is not an option for most of us and even if it were, the fact that you can sit down in front of your monitor or tv and put your feet up and play a competitive and enjoyable round of golf is really a very cool thing!

 

We try to put gameplay controls in the game which replicate variables you can control within the real golf swing such as swing path, mis-hits, clubface alignment etc. Truth be known, swing path is not such a big issue for real life tour players, they are invariably within a degree or two of where they want to be. Delivering the clubface online is much harder to repeat so in that way I supposes the recent change is more in keeping with a real life tour pro's challenges.

[frank70]

Mike Jones, on 08 Mar 2016 - 1:14 PM, said:

There is no 'ratio' in real golf, it's a game control mechanic so you can move the clubface alignment independently of the swing path. We tweaked the penalty for the very best players in the game (tour pro level) based on their feedback (including yours) so that they would find the difficulty level in regard to end distances to target more in line with real golf stats. We agreed and made the change accordingly.

 

The only way to truly simulate a real golf swing is with a real golf club on a full size sim but obviously this is not an option for most of us and even if it were, the fact that you can sit down in front of your monitor or tv and put your feet up and play a competitive and enjoyable round of golf is really a very cool thing!

 

We try to put gameplay controls in the game which replicate variables you can control within the real golf swing such as swing path, mis-hits, clubface alignment etc. Truth be known, swing path is not such a big issue for real life tour players, they are invariably within a degree or two of where they want to be. Delivering the clubface online is much harder to repeat so in that way I supposes the recent change is more in keeping with a real life tour pro's challenges.

Don't get me wrong. I embrace the new challenge. Probably it is kind of a double jump in difficulty: From MS with meter to RTS-M without meter and then on top the changes to the ratio. I just loved the great variety of ball flights before patch and thought it would maybe be better to make all variables a bit more unforgiving. But if you say straight clubface is the biggest factor, the patch is perfect.

[AwYea]

I play like Frank, eventually at RTS-M-TP i would like to see the ability to draw & fade completely removed from shotshaper and only show ball position up & back. Ideally, remove it completely and show ball position movement up and back in-game.

 

 

[bortimus]

Mike, thanks for the explanation.

I am really enjoying the new mechanic and gameplay at TP level.

I like that precision ballstriking/accuracy has become very demanding

[bortimus]

AwYea, on 08 Mar 2016 - 1:57 PM, said:

I play like Frank, eventually at RTS-M-TP i would like to see the ability to draw & fade completely removed from shotshaper and only show ball position up & back. Ideally, remove it completely and show ball position movement up and back in-game.

AwYeah, I used to use the shot shaper a lot back when I played MS and argued for its merits.

I don't use it anymore for RTS-M and I wouldn't mind seeing the fade/draw portion taken out at TP. But I can see both sides of the argument.

[ProFirefighter]

Dazmaniac, on 08 Mar 2016 - 12:55 PM, said:

IMO, if 45 minute rounds are too long for some folks they are playing the wrong game or skill level.

Like anything, as the level of difficulty increases the time taken to complete it will be longer.

Would you expect a 1000 piece jigsaw puzzle to be completed as quick as a 200 piece one?

Increasing skill level in the game means you need to take a bit more time and maybe concentrate a bit more than at lesser levels. By all means play quick at Tour Pro, but your scores will no doubt reflect this.

 

Playing 45 min. rounds are spectacularly long. I just finished one on Pro level in 28 min., already long enough as it is.

 

Those playing hour long rounds should maybe consider installing "Flight Simulator" instead.

 

PC Golf has remained popular because the vast majority understands it's never been about a "1,000 piece jigsaw puzzle". It's been about having fun. Over-scrutinization is commonly reflected in unrealistic scoring.

 

Playing anywhere near an hour long round of PC golf means an official needs to flag for slow play ...

[mebby]

TP is killing me using RTSM (actually RTSH) but I'm loving it.  I think the challenge is what was needed!  There are some people that are already showing they can play quite well using RTSM even at TP levels!  

 

I'm playing probably 75% of my time using RTSC just because it's so darn convenient and it's still challenging enough (for the most part) but I'm finding myself enjoying RTSM more and more.

[AwYea]

bortimus, on 08 Mar 2016 - 2:07 PM, said:

AwYeah, I used to use the shot shaper a lot back when I played MS and argued for its merits.

I don't use it anymore for RTS-M and I wouldn't mind seeing the fade/draw portion taken out at TP. But I can see both sides of the argument.

 

Yea i meant to bring up, my idea may cause balancing issues in competitive play. Not everyone plays like us. In tourney play i play intentional push and pull fades probably 35% of the time.(i get too cute with it at times) My main shot is aim a little right and i'm usually a liitle fast and it draws back perfectly. Would still like to see it as a solo option.

[Golden Bear]

It is about time that some feel the frustration I and others feel due to all this over concern about swing types and using them to measure difficulty which is what the snap assists was intended for.  This is what happens when people complain too much for constant change, something you like is changed to something you don't.  Poetic justice has finally arrived for the rest of us.

 

Hopefully all this tinkering on the swing types is finally over.  That way PG can get on with the important issues, fixing everything that was broken when the latest swing types were introduced.

[frank70]

Golden Bear, on 08 Mar 2016 - 3:29 PM, said:

It is about time that some feel the frustration I and others feel due to all this over concern about swing types and using them to measure difficulty which is what the snap assists was intended for.  This is what happens when people complain too much for constant change, something you like is changed to something you don't.  Poetic justice has finally arrived for the rest of us.

Why don't leave the thread if you don't have something constructive to say?

 

P.S.: The changes had the result a lot of guys were looking for: No more - 10 on Tour pro on a consistent basis. The only question was, if this result was achieved with the right measures.

[wim1234]

ProFirefighter, on 08 Mar 2016 - 2:10 PM, said:

Playing 45 min. rounds are spectacularly long. I just finished one on Pro level in 28 min., already long enough as it is.

 

Those playing hour long rounds should maybe consider installing "Flight Simulator" instead.

 

PC Golf has remained popular because the vast majority understands it's never been about a "1,000 piece jigsaw puzzle". It's been about having fun. Over-scrutinization is commonly reflected in unrealistic scoring.

 

Playing anywhere near an hour long round of PC golf means an official needs to flag for slow play ...

Sounds like someone is maybe in the wrong game here.

The vast majority of gamers do NOT want simulations as real as possible, but fastpaced arcadestuff.

Golf is not a fast-paced sport. Doing an hour a round with 2 persons, sounds about very right for me.

But i think PG can cater for both, with the diff swings and levels.

Weird how many ppl seem to think their way is the only way....

Fun can be had in many many different ways, not one way is better than other ways.

Greetings

[Golden Bear]

ProFirefighter, on 08 Mar 2016 - 2:10 PM, said:

Playing 45 min. rounds are spectacularly long. I just finished one on Pro level in 28 min., already long enough as it is.

 

Those playing hour long rounds should maybe consider installing "Flight Simulator" instead.

 

PC Golf has remained popular because the vast majority understands it's never been about a "1,000 piece jigsaw puzzle". It's been about having fun. Over-scrutinization is commonly reflected in unrealistic scoring.

 

Playing anywhere near an hour long round of PC golf means an official needs to flag for slow play ...

This is why I keep asking for a shot clock.  Many do not want it although it would heighten the skill required to play a decent round.  Anyone can play when taking on average 30 seconds to 1 minute to execute a shot.  Those who know how to play the game can do it in 20 or less.

[Golden Bear]

frank70, on 08 Mar 2016 - 3:31 PM, said:

Why don't leave the thread if you don't have something constructive to say?

 

P.S.: The changes had the result a lot of guys were looking for: No more - 10 on Tour pro on a consistent basis. The only question was, if this result was achieved with the right measures.

I continue to stay in this post for one main reason.  I stay to see what gets mentioned about changes for us 3 clickers.  Someone had the audacity to mention that a 4th click was needed  on the 3 click.  Well let me ask you and the other players who keep asking for more difficulty this.  What ever happened about making this game FUN first over the "PGA scores are this way so"...  it grew old long ago.  You and some others are taking this game way too seriously.  

 

Meanwhile while all this silliness keeps trudging along for constant change to the swing types and every other conceivable option in the game, the game has stalled via getting rid of the bugs.  So are you FINALLY satisfied with the changes, or are more novels coming?

 

I have said countless times that some of the players just want everything their way whether or not it adds to the realism.  I can say that without refutation for what I mention next.  Gimmes should be taken out of the top 2 levels of difficulty.  I have never seen a pro give a gimme because they are not part of professional play.  If you and other players are striving for realism, where is your or their voice on this issue? Well?  I have heard the answer before.  It went something like "it is too hard to make a short putt".  So these same players stomping their feet for constant difficulty increases and constant changes mysteriously fall silent on this very key issue whenever I bring it up.  Do you care to be the one who first breaks the silence.  Gimmes should not be in the game.  There is no defense for them.

[bortimus]

I'll be the first GB

I don't care about gimmies. Sure, take them out.

Go ahead and add a shot clock.

And as for your poetic justice, I'm liking the game now more than ever

[JoeF]

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing the Tour Pro tempo penalties dialed back to a point about halfway between what it is now and what it was before.  

[tlvx]

Mike Jones, on 08 Mar 2016 - 12:06 PM, said:

I've just been on the range to test and with a driver, a ratio of 0.27 and a swing path of 3 degrees in/out produced a baby draw which finished approx 4 yards left of centre. Seemed ok to me.

 

It's still very possible to move the ball around with fades and draws but of course it's not in the proportion you have previously got used to.

 

So, then a short putt shouldn't veer dead left either, unless the path or ratio significantly called for it... just as it would for any other shot.

 

From what I've seen, the only issue with the new Tour Pro mode is the short putting bugs, and the overall tendency for the frame-rate to have far too much of an impact of the consistency of a good shot.

 

It just seems to me like - when you start forcing birds and wildlife into the game - Tour Pro is increasingly becoming a whomever-can-get-their-pc-to-run-the-smoothest mode, regardless of swing type.

 

Severe penalties are occurring as more of an inadvertent gimmick, rather than an actual expected reaction to poorly executed shots. -- The ole' No-Good-Shot-Goes-Unpunished adage.

 

Obviously, many users have reported short putts going dead left, off the face. If it were possible to duplicate such significantly offline short putt mishits in real life, with the same regularity as it occurs in this game on Tour Pro... than, I'd definitely like to see evidence of that.

 

I mean, the hardest mode should be hard, certainly. But, it shouldn't be unrealistic.

 

I think it's a better idea to just handicap swing modes, when there exists no parity... instead of making players mishit shots that weren't really mishit.

[frank70]

Golden Bear, on 08 Mar 2016 - 3:59 PM, said:

I continue to stay in this post for one main reason. I stay to see what gets mentioned about changes for us 3 clickers. Someone had the audacity to mention that a 4th click was needed on the 3 click. Well let me ask you and the other players who keep asking for more difficulty this. What ever happened about making this game FUN first over the "PGA scores are this way so"... it grew old long ago. You and some others are taking this game way too seriously.

Meanwhile while all this silliness keeps trudging along for constant change to the swing types and every other conceivable option in the game, the game has stalled via getting rid of the bugs. So are you FINALLY satisfied with the changes, or are more novels coming?

I have said countless times that some of the players just want everything their way whether or not it adds to the realism. I can say that without refutation for what I mention next. Gimmes should be taken out of the top 2 levels of difficulty. I have never seen a pro give a gimme because they are not part of professional play. If you and other players are striving for realism, where is your or their voice on this issue? Well? I have heard the answer before. It went something like "it is too hard to make a short putt". So these same players stomping their feet for constant difficulty increases and constant changes mysteriously fall silent on this very key issue whenever I bring it up. Do you care to be the one who first breaks the silence. Gimmes should not be in the game. There is no defense for them.

1. Take out the gimmies. I haven't missed a 25 inch putt since long time ago.
2. Don't tell people what FUN is. Fun for me is simulating how a pro thinks himself around the course and simulating the execution of the different shots in a realistic as possible manner.
3. You want arcade and grip-it-and rip-it? Know what? It is already in the game. Play on beginner level and shoot 58 in under 15 minutes. But don't expect all others to classify that as FUN.
4. You don't want to hear anything about the differences between the swing mechanics because of your beloved lobby? Guess what? As long as the differences are there and other players would like to play in a somewhat level playing field in tournaments you will hear it.

All in all you are defending your own interest way more vehemently than others. We asked for change for one swing mechanic in one difficulty level. That hasn't interfered at all with your interests of an crowded lobby. Why? Because i would guess that not a lot of “us“ are potential playing partners of yours in the first place.

[tlvx]

Golden Bear, on 08 Mar 2016 - 3:59 PM, said:

 

I have said countless times that some of the players just want everything their way whether or not it adds to the realism. 

 

Oh look, it's the pot calling the kettle black.

[Crusher]

This is a salient point as well.

http://www.perfectpa...swings/?p=84498