123 replies to this topic

[AwYea]

It's not the scores i have problems with. A missed tempo of 0.01 produces a considerable deviation. There are no “semi good shot“ with the longer clubs. Pre patch if you had a perfect swing plane and a mishit of 3 heel/toe combined with 0.01 timing error the left right deviation wasn't that big. It was okay to make the timing penalty a bit more severe. But now the penalty for timing mishit is doubled and the two other penalties are less. The balance for me is a little lost.

On the other hand Mike said that the tempo (open or closed club face) is the most important factor in real golf too. Maybe it is quite realistic now ..... and i have to hit the range some hours more :-) .

 

I think i may have figured something out. On TP you have to keep a smooth swing, no jerks.(you get away with that at lower levels) Slow backswing and a good follow through, just like the real thing. I know i can do this!

 

Update: keep mouse controls at default(1.5). Do not turn off precision pointer, keep it on. Enjoy RTS-Mouse at any level including Pro and Tour Pro! 

[frank70]

Frank, the guys who hit a draw on the real tour have their clubface open but their swing path to the right of their clubface (right handers), this is how they hit a draw.

No difference with our mouse swings and that is probably the best way to play them at the highest levels. Trying to swing on a square path and nail your clubface alignment every time is going to lead to two way misses. 

Thanks for the tip, Mike.

 

But still: No matter how i preset the shot - when i am off with the ratio by a bit the ball goes well away from the intended line.

 

But as i understood it, the timing has that big of an importance in real golf too. Then the in game representation of the RTS-M is close to reality and i simply have to adapt to it.

 

If you are off hit the ball with a 0.24 ratio you get a "4 draw" - is that right? Maybe a penalty of 3 could have done the trick (In combination that the heel/toe mishits would have stayed the same as pre-patch).

[Mike Jones]

Thanks for the tip, Mike.

 

But still: No matter how i preset the shot - when i am off with the ratio by a bit the ball goes well away from the intended line.

 

But as i understood it, the timing has that big of an importance in real golf too. Then the in game representation of the RTS-M is close to reality and i simply have to adapt to it.

 

If you are off hit the ball with a 0.24 ratio you get a "4 draw" - is that right? Maybe a penalty of 3 could have done the trick (In combination that the heel/toe mishits would have stayed the same as pre-patch).

Frank, I never mentioned anything about pre-setting a shot, all I mentioned was swing path in relation to clubface.

I think I have already shown earlier in this thread that the penalty for a bad ratio is not nearly as much as you are making out, even at the game's most testing level. 

 

I understand that it does not play to your individual strengths however I believe a little adaptation on your part with help with your gameplay. 

[frank70]

Frank, I never mentioned anything about pre-setting a shot, all I mentioned was swing path in relation to clubface.

I think I have already shown earlier in this thread that the penalty for a bad ratio is not nearly as much as you are making out, even at the game's most testing level. 

 

I understand that it does not play to your individual strengths however I believe a little adaptation on your part with help with your gameplay. 

All is good Mike. I try to adapt to it. The long game is a real challenge now. The stats at OGT suggest that it might be a little bit too hard (GIR). But maybe over time we all get better with it - probably we will.

[tlvx]

I have to agree with the O.P. on this assessment.

 

After recently doing some extensive testing on Tour Pro, it appears that the Club-face has a Random element to it.

 

To wit: A single degree of adjustment to the Club-face on Tour Pro; will send the ball upwards of 5 percent offline. By the way, that's well off just about any fairway... even if the shot ratio is right on the money. -- The issue is the Random nature of these ever so slight Club-face adjustments... when the Club-face is actually going through without adjustment.

 

It's already hard enough to hit shots to a standard that requires accuracy down to one one-hundredth of a second. -- Which is nigh impossible by the way; particularly with the variable frame-rates from one golf course to the next.

 

But, forcing the Over-swing zone to produce random Clubface adjustments is just not in keeping with the other swing types.

 

It's also not cool to have tap in putts going dead left. -- Apparently; according to the practice facility; It would appear that the ratio simply doesn't take within certain very short swing distances, on Tour Pro.

 

So, very short, and very long swings... both produce somewhat Random penalties, even if the shot or the putt is struck correctly.

[Armand]

I hadn't played PG in a several weeks until about a week ago.  Not having my RTSM tempo practiced was going to cost me strokes, for sure, and I also changed to the Player camera (and I can't seem to change back to Top Player - has that option been removed or did I completely forget where to set that!?).  I fired up Pommeroy and began swinging away.  After the first hole, I realized my tempo was completely out of whack, but instead of practicing and trying to get in the rhythm, I continued to swing away.  I was thinking that the RTS swing should somewhat follow the tempo of what a swing in real golf would be, so I completely abandoned all thoughts of 4:1 and 0.25 and just played the game at Tour Pro+ level, as I always have done.

 

After the 164 strokes to finish those 18 holes as Pommeroy, I've realized that, at least for me, the current RTSM implementation bears little or no representation of what a real golf swing "feels" like.  It might be my time away or it might be my computer (although I'm usually playing at Ultra settings with reasonable frame rates >35), I don't know.   Most every shot was far right of my target - so perhaps tempo is far too much influence on the shot result.  I know my 7 month hiatus from real golf over each winter doesn't require me to completely learn the tempo again, but PG doesn't seem to be a game you can intuitively pick up and play (or maybe the 4:1 ratio just isn't how my real swing feels, so when I put that to the game, it results in poor shots). 

 

Tempo is big part of the real game and so I think it should be for PG.  And although slowing down the back swing to ultra slow sort of helped, as did speeding up the downswing, each of these adjustments just didn't feel natural to my real golf swing.  I'm not a great real-life golfer (16 hdcp), but I hit my share of good shots.  PG with RTS doesn't seem to be intuitive for me - there seems to be too much reliance on "swing it this way, or else it won't work".  I'm not sure if sensitivity settings or adjustable tempo would be the answer, but it seems a bit contrived to me.  My conclusion is that I think my RTS days are over for now.

 

I haven't played since that round a week ago (due to work, computer issues (now resolved), etc.), but my next game will likely see me back with MSH with Tour Pro.  Possibly, I might lower the level and/or add few aids, but who knows.  I'm super envious of those who have the facilities to play in simulator mode.

[JoeF]

I hadn't played PG in a several weeks until about a week ago.  Not having my RTSM tempo practiced was going to cost me strokes, for sure, and I also changed to the Player camera (and I can't seem to change back to Top Player - has that option been removed or did I completely forget where to set that!?).  I fired up Pommeroy and began swinging away.  After the first hole, I realized my tempo was completely out of whack, but instead of practicing and trying to get in the rhythm, I continued to swing away.  I was thinking that the RTS swing should somewhat follow the tempo of what a swing in real golf would be, so I completely abandoned all thoughts of 4:1 and 0.25 and just played the game at Tour Pro+ level, as I always have done.

 

After the 164 strokes to finish those 18 holes as Pommeroy, I've realized that, at least for me, the current RTSM implementation bears little or no representation of what a real golf swing "feels" like.  It might be my time away or it might be my computer (although I'm usually playing at Ultra settings with reasonable frame rates >35), I don't know.   Most every shot was far right of my target - so perhaps tempo is far too much influence on the shot result.  I know my 7 month hiatus from real golf over each winter doesn't require me to completely learn the tempo again, but PG doesn't seem to be a game you can intuitively pick up and play (or maybe the 4:1 ratio just isn't how my real swing feels, so when I put that to the game, it results in poor shots). 

 

Tempo is big part of the real game and so I think it should be for PG.  And although slowing down the back swing to ultra slow sort of helped, as did speeding up the downswing, each of these adjustments just didn't feel natural to my real golf swing.  I'm not a great real-life golfer (16 hdcp), but I hit my share of good shots.  PG with RTS doesn't seem to be intuitive for me - there seems to be too much reliance on "swing it this way, or else it won't work".  I'm not sure if sensitivity settings or adjustable tempo would be the answer, but it seems a bit contrived to me.  My conclusion is that I think my RTS days are over for now.

 

I haven't played since that round a week ago (due to work, computer issues (now resolved), etc.), but my next game will likely see me back with MSH with Tour Pro.  Possibly, I might lower the level and/or add few aids, but who knows.  I'm super envious of those who have the facilities to play in simulator mode.

 

Armand,

It sounds like you were taking too much backswing and getting into the overswing zone which, if you don't add a bit of speed to your downswing, will cause the ball to go way to the right.  Try slowing your backswing a bit and be careful not to get to far into the overswing zone.

[MERACE]

Armand,

I feel the same way as you do about the MS tempo not being very realistic or similar to my golf swing IRL. No, I don't have a Happy Gilmore swing.

That's why I've give up on MS and I play RTS-C exclusively. I was initially a bit disappointed that there was no tempo element included in RTS-C. However, if there was a tempo element included in RTS-C and it resembled the current one in MS I would probably not be playing PG.


-MERACE

[Buck]

It's important to remember that a swing mechanic in a video game isn't necessarily always trying to replicate exactly how a real golf swing operates in all facets.

A lot of it is simply trying to inject the same risk and challenge as best able to be presented by the limitations of the interface.

[MERACE]

I'm not expecting a golf swing in a video game to accurately reflect all the nuances that are in my IRL golf swing, however, I do desire the backswing and forward swing speeds to be somewhat similar to my IRL golf swing.


-MERACE

[Buck]

I do desire the backswing and forward swing speeds to be somewhat similar to my IRL golf swing.
 

 

What does this even mean though as it relates to a controller or mouse swing?

 

It's comparing plastic apples to sequoia trees - Just no relationship whatsoever...

 

The best you can do is make the same ratio of back to down swing speeds as in real life and PP did that with the Motion Swing/RTS-M, yet many complain that it doesn't "feel" how they wanted...despite them using actual data to come up with the formula.

 

What more can they really do?

[MERACE]

IMO, sometimes the "hard data" doesn't always translate to the same "feel" as IRL and exceptions and adjustments need to be made in the game to make it enjoyable.

I find that for me that the swing speeds in PG's MS and even to a certain degree RTS-C lacking in a realistic sense of acceleration especially in the forward swing. I'm sure Armand and I are probably in the minority opinion on this matter and I certainly don't necessarily expect PP to change it just for us.


-MERACE

[Buck]

Well.

I love the RTS-C I have to say

But I'm off topic here. This isn't really about RTS-C so I'll check out.

[MERACE]

Again, I do believe that TGC's controller swing gives me a more "accurate feel" of acceleration in the forward swing similar to my IRL golf swing in spite of possibly being "inaccurate in the hard numbers". TGC's swing mechanic is certainly far from perfect and there are things that I like better in PG's controller swing mechanic (i. e. over swing area).

Edit: Buck, I think you changed your post before I finished this post. You're right, this post is not about controller swing so I'm done too.


-MERACE

[Armand]

My thoughts with RTSM was that moving the animation at the same time the mouse moved would provide a more realistic experience, rather than a 3C meter or even the MSH swing method I used prior to RTSM becoming.  I understand the slowing swing, the not get into overswing, the 4:1 tempo requirements, but none of those result in what I feel is a realistic RTS.  I probably misunderstood what RTS was supposed to represent, and I had hoped it was a more realistic feeling of a golf swing - and for me, it doesn't.

 

So, although I've given up on RTSM at the moment, I will probably revisit it sometime in the future.  MSH provides me a better "golfing experience", especially with how it feels to work the ball flight - or at least it used to!  I haven't played MSH since RTSM came out.

[mebby]

My thoughts with RTSM was that moving the animation at the same time the mouse moved would provide a more realistic experience, rather than a 3C meter or even the MSH swing method I used prior to RTSM becoming.  I understand the slowing swing, the not get into overswing, the 4:1 tempo requirements, but none of those result in what I feel is a realistic RTS.  I probably misunderstood what RTS was supposed to represent, and I had hoped it was a more realistic feeling of a golf swing - and for me, it doesn't.

 

So, although I've given up on RTSM at the moment, I will probably revisit it sometime in the future.  MSH provides me a better "golfing experience", especially with how it feels to work the ball flight - or at least it used to!  I haven't played MSH since RTSM came out.

I kinda feel the same way to be honest.  RTSM feels more like an exercise is precision mouse movement and timing whereas MS feels more like a rhythm and tempo.

 

I've tried to enjoy RTSM but at the end of the day... I just don't.  So for me, it's RTSC.  Been having a blast with that. 

[Armand]

With all the posts/discussions on RTSC, I may have to (buy and) try a controller.  It doesn't seem like it would be interest me, to be honest, but you never know ....

 

I wonder if my nephew has an old controller I could try out 

[mebby]

With all the posts/discussions on RTSC, I may have to (buy and) try a controller.  It doesn't seem like it would be interest me, to be honest, but you never know ....

 

I wonder if my nephew has an old controller I could try out 

LOL!  If you can borrow a controller just to try it out I think there's a good chance that you'll enjoy it.  There are many people floating around these forums that were reluctant to try it but are now finding themselves really enjoying it.  It's nuanced just enough to make things engaging without causing you to want to throw the controller out the window.

 

It's by FAR the best controller based swing I've ever used.

[Greensboronclion]

Armand

If I can come over too the Dark Side you can also........may the controller be with you Armand.

[frank70]

At least the powers on the leaderboards have shifted.

 

Bortimus is an outlier and probably the best player of the game - he has won one tournament at OGT after the implementation of the RTS and after the changes in penalty for the mouse swingers. All other tourneys have been won by 3-clickers.

 

Guys like Justin or SJude aren't even playing on the Tour Pro Tour any more cause RTS-M is just a different animal in difficulty. No swing meter or visual presentation of the mouse pointer (swing path) is a huge disadvantage compared to MS or 3-click.

 

The long game is really hard now .....  and the short game (pitching, chipping, flopping and putting) is still way too easy as the stats of the tourneys show. The balance in difficulty just doesn't seem right. Although i have to say, that short shots (without the putting) have become significantly harder with RTS-M as well. It's very difficult to see and to gauge the difference between a 95 % swing and a 103 % swing when swinging - but it makes a big difference in the shot result.