123 replies to this topic

[Sliceapottomus]

I think if any of these posts take longer than 20 seconds to read, they should be deleted....wait mine took 25 seconds.....crap... Ok i think any post that takes longer than 25 seconds needs to be deleted...

[Golden Bear]

@ StoneComet

 

Good post.   There was a 30 second and 45 second choice for timed rounds in TW11 online if my memory serves me as correct.  The majority preferred the 30 second limit.   Although this game is considerably more difficult than any TW game, even for the toughest ball lies one should have no problem executing a shot in 45 seconds unless (without disrespect meant) one may have a physical handicap causing difficulty with hand movements.  

 

Every other conceivable option has been asked for and almost all have been incorporated.  Just like some want the option in rounds to force a particular swing type, I would enjoy the option to set timed rounds.  No one would be forced to join them just like all other options a host might set.

 

This is where tlvx will chime in but he is on permanent ignore.  

[Golden Bear]

I think if any of these posts take longer than 20 seconds to read, they should be deleted....wait mine took 25 seconds.....crap... Ok i think any post that takes longer than 25 seconds needs to be deleted...

I am at my daily quota of likes yet again.   Thumbs up and hope this post is under...

[tlvx]

Good post.   There was a 30 second and 45 second choice for timed rounds in TW11 online if my memory serves me as correct.  The majority preferred the 30 second limit.   Although this game is considerably more difficult than any TW game, even for the toughest ball lies one should have no problem executing a shot in 45 seconds unless (without disrespect meant) one may have a physical handicap causing difficulty with hand movements.  

 

Every other conceivable option has been asked for and almost all have been incorporated.  Just like some want the option in rounds to force a particular swing type, I would enjoy the option to set timed rounds.  No one would be forced to join them just like all other options a host might set.

 

This is where tlvx will chime in but he is on permanent ignore.  

 

Here you go again stating things for the *majority* without any references whatsoever.

 

Did you work for EA Sports? Did they release the metrics to you?
 

[Sliceapottomus]

I agree with Slice that perhaps PP should make an executive decision and kill the old MS. It seems like RTS-M is what motion swing should have been all along, just that the avatar wasn't ready yet.

You are not agreeing with me ... didn't ask for anything to be killed or removed.

[Buck]

You are not agreeing with me ... didn't ask for anything to be killed or removed.

Hmm. I guess I'm confused...

Are you not advocating right in this post below for there to be either RTS-M or MS, but not both?

....Do I like rts? I think it is an awsome addition, why the motion swing had to be seperated is beyond me. Dont under stand whty the new rts couldnt have just been the old motion swing w/o the meter, and golfer would move based on mouse movement...why a a new swig type was introduced is beyond me... .

[mebby]

We have now landed firmly in the "I could give a shit" territory.  Wow... lots of ridiculousness going on here today!

[Sliceapottomus]

I am with you. I generally love the changes to the Tour Pro difficulty for swingers- I just questioned the (over)-pronounced importance of timing. Swinging straight is a skill that now is diminished in importance. If you read my starting post, there is nothing in it that compares to other swing mechanics. Mimic brought that topic up with a little insight from the tester team. And then i questioned the decision to "dumb down" the variance of the RTS-M in order to make the results comparable to 3-click.

 

And you got one thing wrong: A lot of 3-clickers complained that MS is too easy. And even the top MS-players agreed to a change towards more penalty on long shots. Since the patch i haven't heard ONE word from the 3-clickers. The top swingers have lost 4-5 strokes per round since the patch. Now the Top Ten is crowded by 3-clickers. Has any motion swinger complained? I haven't because i love the new challenge and i haven't read any complain by any other mouse swinger. So the traditional 3-clicker-camp came out on top of that and everything is fine. But please don't simplify the mechanics of mouse swing to make it comparable with a 30 year old swing mechanic. That is not innovation, that is backward thinking. 

Well you are hearing from 1 now. I never even mentioned you but thats fine. Seeing how I have your attention .Let me refresh your memory...I know we spoke b4 and I told you be carefull what you wish for....What we did agree on, was the putting being to easy for all. We agreed that in motion swing  it was way easier to hit straight shots with the long game...mostly due to the severe mis hit snap in tp 3 click. You kept asking for scrambling to be addressed to easy to hit the flop and the physics were all wrong... How's that all going for you now. Are your stats more in line with adam scott's now? Youre not hearing  from us " 3 clickers" now because nothing changed for us....What we didnt agree on was the stats here at perfect golf needed to mirror the pga tour stats.. Once again and for the last time this is not a sim that you are playing. It is a video game...not simulating golf untill you are swiging a stick my friend....sorry to state the reality of it... any one else trying to put words in my mouth.. Don't bother I think I am done with these forums for a while. reasonable debate seems to be a missed concept for some in this particular thread.. not every one just some....

[StoneComet]

 So I might be reading it wrong after all. I reread it and maybe it is 107 / 4.19 which nets 25.54 seconds. That just does not sound right as an average though. It sounds more like the faster players. The Masters does use a 40 second limit when it is your turn with an additional 20 seconds for special circumstances such as being the first to tee off a par 3 or first to your ball basically. So maybe 60 seconds would be a good start for tournaments that want to use a time rule. Interesting about TW 30 and 45. Like you said it could be an option no one would be forced to join. What would be interesting would be some data for how long it takes to take shots while playing this game and see what the average might be. so with what has been said maybe 45 and 60 seconds would be good options for PG.  I've been doing some more research and found this. What were we talking about anyways. Oh yeah the penalty ratio. I apologize for hijacking the thread but time limit options caught my attention. Maybe start a thread in the PG feature requests.

April 12 2013

3:40 PM Pace of play rules for TOUR, Masters

 

AUGUSTA, Ga. -- Guan Tianlang, the 14-year-old amateur from China, was assessed a one-stroke penalty during Friday's second round of the Masters for violating Rule 6-7 of the Rules of Golf and the Tournament's pace of play policy (click here for more on Guan's penalty).

Under the guidelines for Rule 6-7, a player is permitted 40 seconds to play a stroke. This 40-second time limit includes the first to play from the teeing ground, from the fairway and from around and on the putting green.

Guan received a warning at the 13th hole and was penalized for exceeding the 40-second time limit -- "by a considerable margin" according to Masters competition committee chairman Fred Ridley -- forllowing his second shot on the 17th hole.

The PGA TOUR rules for pace of play includes the 40-second time limit, but also allows an extra 20 seconds (for a total of 60 seconds) under the following circumstances:
> The first player to play a stroke on a par-3 hole
> The first player to play a second stroke on a par-4 or par-5 hole
> The first player to play a third stroke on a par-5 hole
> The first player to play around the putting green
> The first player to play on a putting green

Under both sets of guidelines, the timing of a stroke on the putting green begins after a player has been allowed a reasonable amount of time to mark, lift, clean and replace his ball, repair his ball mark and other ball marks on his line of putt and remove loose impediments on his line of putt.

[frank70]

Well you are hearing from 1 now. I never even mentioned you but thats fine. Seeing how I have your attention .Let me refresh your memory...I know we spoke b4 and I told you be carefull what you wish for....What we did agree on, was the putting being to easy for all. We agreed that in motion swing it was way easier to hit straight shots with the long game...mostly due to the severe mis hit snap in tp 3 click. You kept asking for scrambling to be addressed to easy to hit the flop and the physics were all wrong... How's that all going for you now. Are your stats more in line with adam scott's now? Youre not hearing from us " 3 clickers" now because nothing changed for us....What we didnt agree on was the stats here at perfect golf needed to mirror the pga tour stats.. Once again and for the last time this is not a sim that you are playing. It is a video game...not simulating golf untill you are swiging a stick my friend....sorry to state the reality of it... any one else trying to put words in my mouth.. Don't bother I think I am done with these forums for a while. reasonable debate seems to be a missed concept for some in this particular thread.. not every one just some....

It's going fine for me. No swinger can shoot -40 over 72 holes -very good result! Feels more like a sim to me. Scrambling is way more challenging than before .... bravo!

Clickers now win every tournament. Parity? Not so much. But then again: Why no division of the fields? Then these discussions about easier can end.

[ProFirefighter]

Sounds like someone is maybe in the wrong game here.

The vast majority of gamers do NOT want simulations as real as possible, but fastpaced arcadestuff.

Golf is not a fast-paced sport. Doing an hour a round with 2 persons, sounds about very right for me.

But i think PG can cater for both, with the diff swings and levels.

Weird how many ppl seem to think their way is the only way....

Fun can be had in many many different ways, not one way is better than other ways.

Greetings

 

Sounds like someone wrongly understands what a PC Golf game is.

 

The vast majority of players do NOT want slow or "fast paced stuff", they want fun.

 

This is not golf IRL, people need to stop erroneously making that comparison. It's an extremely well executed PC game, read that again ... PC GAME.

 

Weird how many people try to make it what it can never be, what it shouldn't be.

 

Fun can be had in many ways, fomenting a neurosis is not one of them.

 

PEACE

 

This is why I keep asking for a shot clock.  Many do not want it although it would heighten the skill required to play a decent round.  Anyone can play when taking on average 30 seconds to 1 minute to execute a shot.  Those who know how to play the game can do it in 20 or less.

 

... Someone had the audacity to mention that a 4th click was needed  on the 3 click. 

... Gimmes should not be in the game.  There is no defense for them.

 

What? Who on earth asked for a 4th click? Have mercy ...

 

BTW, excellent posts GB. I enjoy reading your comments, always mature and rational. Well Done!

 

Oh look, it's the pot calling the kettle black.

 

Oh look, it's someone using a euphemism from the Middle Ages.

 

If anyone is having a rough time on Tour Pro…

Have they considered checking out "Pro"?

LOL

 

Oh no, they would never want to suffer the agony of having to enter a class from which they actually belonged in the first place!

 

Seriously tlvx?  This from the person who posts about 5 plus threads every day with complaints others do not even have with the game?  lol

 

:-)

 

No worries Frank.  The fact that you consider my well thought out posts as ridicule speaks volumes about your misunderstanding of them.  Ridicule me is what you did in your last two posts ...

 

As for all your talk about 3 click being a 30 year old innovation it comes across as an elitist attitude whether or not you see it ...

 

Agreed GB. 100%.

 

Again your reading comprehension is askew.  The average I quoted ... 

 

You did the exact same thing I did the other day. Simple math speaks absolute volumes.

 

I think if any of these posts take longer than 20 seconds to read, they should be deleted....wait mine took 25 seconds.....crap... Ok i think any post that takes longer than 25 seconds needs to be deleted...

 

I did it in 11 seconds, does that mean I should opt for "Master Pro" reading level? lol

[AwYea]

Once you get settings dialed in(mouse especially) there isn't that much jump in time from AM, Pro, TP. I would say 30min, 35min, 40min.  I said an hr earlier for TP, but i didn't have my mouse set up right.

[Golden Bear]

Sounds like someone wrongly understands what a PC Golf game is.

 

The vast majority of players do NOT want slow or "fast paced stuff", they want fun.

 

This is not golf IRL, people need to stop erroneously making that comparison. It's an extremely well executed PC game, read that again ... PC GAME.

 

Weird how many people try to make it what it can never be, what it shouldn't be.

 

Fun can be had in many ways, fomenting a neurosis is not one of them.

 

PEACE

 

 

 

What? Who on earth asked for a 4th click? Have mercy ...

 

BTW, excellent posts GB. I enjoy reading your comments, always mature and rational. Well Done!

 

 

Oh look, it's someone using a euphemism from the Middle Ages.

 

 

Oh no, they would never want to suffer the agony of having to enter a class from which they actually belonged in the first place!

 

 

:-)

 

 

Agreed GB. 100%.

 

 

You did the exact same thing I did the other day. Simple math speaks absolute volumes.

 

 

I did it in 11 seconds, does that mean I should opt for "Master Pro" reading level? lol

Cheers

[Buck]

@Slice:

Could you please comment on my post #86 in here?

 

I'm still confused as to how I misinterpreted your quote (shown in my Post #86 above).

 

Thanks

[frank70]

After further playing i still think that the tempo plays too big of a role. A deviation of 0.01 makes you miss the fairway with driver. I understood that this should represent about the same penalty the 3-clickers have. It's a good thing trying to balance out the difficulty between the different swing types - but i  still think that it was done in an unbalanced way - the tempo element is a little bit too dominant.

 

One of my strengths with MS and still with RTS-M is to be able to swing in a straight path. Probably 9 out of 10 times i manage to have a swing path of 0 or 1 outside/in in combination with a mishit of under 3 (heel/toe). Before the patch the combination of all three elements of the swing was crucial - now the ratio dominates the outcome. If you hit the ball with a 0.24 ratio, an 1 outside in swing plane and a mishit of 3 toe the ball still goes leftMy pledge still would be too lessen the penalty of timing a little bit and to raise the penalty of missing the swing plane and heel/toe a little bit. So both elements - having a good timing , and being able to swing straight would have equal importance. For me that would be a more balanced and in a way fairer approach.

 

I understood that the current implementation makes cheating through edging less viable. But couldn't edging (straight swing plane and 0 heel/toe all the time) detected by the system? For "non-edgers" it would be impossible to have a absolutely perfect swing plane not more often than 5 out of 10 times.

[Mike Jones]

Depends on how wide the fairway is Frank TBH, a .01 ratio offset with a driver is generally less than 10 yards from centre - I just tested it. There are several decimal points that are not shown so all .01 errors are not the same

 

I would suggest that you try and do what the pros do to work with the percentages and move the ball one way another on purpose through a combination of swing path and ratio. 

 

[frank70]

Depends on how wide the fairway is Frank TBH, a .01 ratio offset with a driver is generally less than 10 yards from centre - I just tested it. There are several decimal points that are not shown so all .01 errors are not the same

 

I would suggest that you try and do what the pros do to work with the percentages and move the ball one way another on purpose through a combination of swing path and ratio. 

 

I will try to do that. Good information of the not shown decimals. I sometimes have a shot with ratio 0.25 on the range and with 1 T that goes a little to the left. Probably it was a ratio of 0.245 and that drags the ball a little left.

 

Your shot was with 97 % power. That lessens the left/right penalty a bit compared to 100% power, right? Right now i often have a power of 101% with my swings, which increases the deviation of course. I have to work on that.

 

Over all i like the changes after the patch a lot, Mike. I haven't broke par at the tournaments at OGT after 72 holes yet. That's no problem - the game has to be tough on the highest difficulty level (Bortimus finished with - 21, so it absolutely can be done!!). I just have the feeling that the ratio is a bit too dominant for deviation. Swinging straight and being able to hit the sweet spot is a skill imho. And this skill is diminished after the patch. It's not completely gone - but if you have a ratio of 0.25 a mishit toe of 10 doesn't move the ball that much to the right anymore. Before the patch it did and i think the balance of the different elements of the swing was better.

[AwYea]

I'm with frank70. I'm a good 20+ shots higher with either RTS-M-Pro or TP from AM. I've seen 2 guys, Bortimus & a guy boss309 shoot under par with RTS-M-TP though. 

 

Edit: At OGT you can check PGA tour at Tour Pro. There are quite a few burning it up with RTS-M. 

[frank70]

I'm with frank70. I'm a good 20+ shots higher with either RTS-M-Pro or TP from AM. I've seen 2 guys, Bortimus & a guy boss309 shoot under par with RTS-M-TP though.

It's not the scores i have problems with. A missed tempo of 0.01 produces a considerable deviation. There are no “semi good shot“ with the longer clubs. Pre patch if you had a perfect swing plane and a mishit of 3 heel/toe combined with 0.01 timing error the left right deviation wasn't that big. It was okay to make the timing penalty a bit more severe. But now the penalty for timing mishit is doubled and the two other penalties are less. The balance for me is a little lost.

On the other hand Mike said that the tempo (open or closed club face) is the most important factor in real golf too. Maybe it is quite realistic now ..... and i have to hit the range some hours more :-) .

[Mike Jones]

Frank, the guys who hit a draw on the real tour have their clubface open but their swing path to the right of their clubface (right handers), this is how they hit a draw.

No difference with our mouse swings and that is probably the best way to play them at the highest levels. Trying to swing on a square path and nail your clubface alignment every time is going to lead to two way misses.