197 replies to this topic

[zmax - sim]

This weeks tournament shows 126 players registered and 113 of them have played at least 1 round.  Tour Membership stands at a little over 200.

http://www.onlinegol...rd.html?id=1245

 

 

Btw, we have started collecting handicap data.  3-4 weeks from now, once it all looks good, we might make this a handicap tour similar to the Controller Tour.  Leaderboards will show both NET and GROSS scores but FedEx points will be based on NET.  GROSS winners will also get a trophy.

 

Also, with handicaps, there will be no need to promote players to a higher level after winning 3 events.

[frank70]

This weeks tournament shows 126 players registered and 113 of them have played at least 1 round.  Tour Membership stands at a little over 200.

http://www.onlinegol...rd.html?id=1245

 

 

Btw, we have started collecting handicap data.  3-4 weeks from now, once it all looks good, we might make this a handicap tour similar to the Controller Tour.  Leaderboards will show both NET and GROSS scores but FedEx points will be based on NET.  GROSS winners will also get a trophy.

 

Also, with handicaps, there will be no need to promote players to a higher level after winning 3 events.

Not good news for me. I loved the "one" tour without handicaps. I thought the different difficulty levels were good enough to form good, competitive fields. Everybody could find a field where he could compete.

 

I can only speak for Tour Pro: We had quite a lot different winners in the last months of play. So i don't really see a need for a handicap Tour Pro level. And if i understood it correctly we won't even have Tour Pro competitions anymore. Net scores will be compared between all difficulty levels?

 

Maybe a poll about the handicap plans would be a good idea. Whatever the majority likes is good for OGT.

 

P.S.: Could we maybe have one Gross and one Net ranking? So we could have the best of both worlds. Fans of handicaps could only watch the handicap rankings and the Net fans could follow the Net ranking.

[zmax - sim]

Handicaps are compared within each level only.  If you're playing a Pro event, your handicapped score is only compared to other Pro players.  Same for all other levels.  

 

We can enable handicaps for each level separately, for each event.  i.e. Tour Pro can stay gross while other levels use handicaps.  Also, we can throw in gross tournaments every now and then.

 

We can not have separate gross and net rankings at the moment.  This requires too many changes and too much work.

[Affo]

Will the current Tour be finished before a change in points structure or way to gain points is implented?

[zmax - sim]

Maybe.  Season was scheduled to end in March.  Perhaps we'll just end it early and start a new season with handicaps.

[JOHNDALY91]

Tour Pro should remain Handicap free and world rank should not apply to handicapped results. I would rather see more effort in posting shot data and trying to identify players who exploit the game and achieve unrealistic shot results. With 4 levels there should be no need for a Handicap system in league play. It would be useful for all included exhibition events.

[DennisHarris]

I say spend more time supporting OGT and less time worrying about other people and how they play the game.  I say it is a known fact all mice and controllers are not created equally.  Some seem more forgiving and some are not so forgiving.  JNPG and the 3rd party tours that support it should simply provide the events.  Trying to limit or determine the equipment used to play their tours is not the job of 3rd party tours or JNPG.  The handicap system is one way to even things up for everyone.  I place my support behind the handicap system.  

 

Bring on the Attacks as they are certain to come.   Sand bagging, are old over used arguments. 

[frank70]

Tour Pro should remain Handicap free and world rank should not apply to handicapped results. I would rather see more effort in posting shot data and trying to identify players who exploit the game and achieve unrealistic shot results. With 4 levels there should be no need for a Handicap system in league play. It would be useful for all included exhibition events.

I second that. One difficulty level where the lowest score wins should be represented at OGT. That would leave the option open to participate in handicap AND non-handicap events.

 

Again: A poll, especially for the Tour Pro players, would maybe be a good thing.

[Harald]

Too many Changes in short Time would more destroy the Community that it helps!

[StoneComet]

I say spend more time supporting OGT and less time worrying about other people and how they play the game.  I say it is a known fact all mice and controllers are not created equally.  Some seem more forgiving and some are not so forgiving.  JNPG and the 3rd party tours that support it should simply provide the events.  Trying to limit or determine the equipment used to play their tours is not the job of 3rd party tours or JNPG.  The handicap system is one way to even things up for everyone.  I place my support behind the handicap system.  

 

Bring on the Attacks as they are certain to come.   Sand bagging, are old over used arguments. 

 

Greetings,

 

Agreed. Sand bagging will be used as a counter argument. However, I would think keeping track and correcting sandbaggers would be easier than trying to correct device anomalies. I would certainly be inclined to play more in the handicap system that OGT is possibly going to provide. Of course I'm not a very good player so that makes me biased towards a handicap system. No skin off my back either way. I'll either have my interest caught or not.

 

I certainly respect OGT for all the work they do and the services they provide. It's thankless work most of the time.

 

SC 

[zmax - sim]

I say spend more time supporting OGT and less time worrying about other people and how they play the game.  I say it is a known fact all mice and controllers are not created equally.  Some seem more forgiving and some are not so forgiving.  JNPG and the 3rd party tours that support it should simply provide the events.  Trying to limit or determine the equipment used to play their tours is not the job of 3rd party tours or JNPG.  The handicap system is one way to even things up for everyone.  I place my support behind the handicap system.  

 

Bring on the Attacks as they are certain to come.   Sand bagging, are old over used arguments. 

 

 

Greetings,

 

Agreed. Sand bagging will be used as a counter argument. However, I would think keeping track and correcting sandbaggers would be easier than trying to correct device anomalies. I would certainly be inclined to play more in the handicap system that OGT is possibly going to provide. Of course I'm not a very good player so that makes me biased towards a handicap system. No skin off my back either way. I'll either have my interest caught or not.

 

I certainly respect OGT for all the work they do and the services they provide. It's thankless work most of the time.

 

SC 

 

Thanks guys for your kind comments.   Stone's last sentence is spot on.

 

John and Frank were against handicaps back then and are still against it now.  They are top players so I can understand why they don't want it.  But the PGA Tour is a Tour that allows all different types of swings and devices.   It's a Tour that should benefit from the use of handicaps.  Like I said, we are just collecting data at the moment.

[DivotMaker]

Thanks guys for your kind comments.   Stone's last sentence is spot on.

 

John and Frank were against handicaps back then and are still against it now.  They are top players so I can understand why they don't want it.  But the PGA Tour is a Tour that allows all different types of swings and devices.   It's a Tour that should benefit from the use of handicaps.  Like I said, we are just collecting data at the moment.

 

Z,

 

The only issue I see is that we have several swing methods with no realistic or plausible way to balance each so that we have a "level" playing field. I get where the top players come from. I get where others come from. IMO, the only real answer to this is to separate the swings into their own PGA TOUR if users truly want a "level playing field". Unfortunately, we don't have the numbers to pull this off without diluting the current tours. Having different swing options and interfaces is great for choice, but it makes competition very challenging since there is not true "balancing" of each swing to achieve parity from a gameplay challenge standpoint.

 

The handicap experiment on the RTS Controller Tour has been interesting as we are seeing some new names, but definitely scoring differences due to the handicapping. And turnout has doubled. Not sure how this would turn out on the PGA TOUR, but it would be interesting to say the least and heck if it double in participation, therein lies a "win" and we can tweak from there. I do not profess to have all the answers, but in a perfect world, I would love to see separate tours by swing method that drove participation through the roof.

 

Not sure that is of any help.....

[zmax - sim]

The only Tour is see growing big is the Controller Tour once the game is released on Xbox.  That is another reason for the handicap system on that tour.  If you look at TGC Tours, over 95% of the players are playing on consoles using a controller.  A very small minority are playing on pc using a mouse/controller.  

 

TGC Tours do not have to deal with balancing of multiple devices because most of them are using controllers and they only have one swing method, EASY  .  The various swing method in PG are great but causes divisions in the community.  We have separate device/swing method tours now but problem is they force players to play alone at times.  The best way to go IMO, is with an all swing type tour such as the PGA Tour.   It allows friends of all swing types to play their rounds together.  But a handicap system is needed to keep all things balanced.  Benefit also is it will allow many folks chances to win.

[Buck]

Maybe everyone should be on one tour and just have relegation to a lower level, like Premier League.

Ultimately you'll end up with the "however they do it - top scorers" in one area and those that aren't as good or play with more challenging equipment/situations in the other.

Might be more fun for all honestly.

[zmax - sim]

Maybe everyone should be on one tour and just have relegation to a lower level, like Premier League.

Ultimately you'll end up with the "however they do it - top scorers" in one area and those that aren't as good or play with more challenging equipment/situations in the other.

Might be more fun for all honestly.

 

No idea what Premier league is.  Can you elaborate?

[Harald]

No idea what Premier league is.  Can you elaborate?

Premier League is first UK Soccer League for the "best Soccer Teams" in UK. Not so good Teams play one Step below the Premier League. Same is here in Germany - best Teams play in first Bundesliga other Team in League second, third etc.

[zmax - sim]

No idea what Premier league is.  Can you elaborate?

Premier League is first UK Soccer League for the "best Soccer Teams" in UK. Not so good Teams play one Step below the Premier League. Same is here in Germany - best Teams play in first Bundesliga other Team in League second, third etc.

 

I see what you mean.  This will create another division in the community.  Not a good idea at this time.

[zmax - sim]

What could work is an Elite difficulty mode where BLI, Grid, and left/right shot shaper(except for 3C) are disabled.  We could use it in the PGA Tour and not use handicaps for this mode.   Unfortunately, I suspect it'll be a lot of work for PP.  IMO, it'll be low on the priority list.  Let's get 3D grass/Xbox out first.  

[mebby]

Short of some sort of controller calibration before each tournament I honestly don't see a way of leveling the playing field OTHER than using a handicap system.  

 

The only recommendation I would have is to show the round scores gross, and then show an index column and then a net column for total score.  But that's just a personal preference.

[mebby]

What could work is an Elite difficulty mode where BLI, Grid, and shot shaper(except for 3C) are disabled.  We could use it in the PGA Tour and not use handicaps for this mode.   Unfortunately, I suspect it'll be a lot of work for PP.  IMO, it'll be low on the priority list.  Let's get 3D grass/Xbox out first.  

I'd be all over that.  But the tournaments that we tried out with no BLI or Grids didn't generate much interest so I kinda wonder if something like this would ever pull in enough people?