56 replies to this topic

[MimicPS]

The PP code, along with data we collect in tournament API returns, can and does Tom.

 

The thing is, we wanted to provide as level a playing field as possible when examining all devices which provided the message. As you know, we began our monitoring only at the point when we could be sure that Motionswing Mouse, Real Time Controller, and 3-Click swings all had a degree of monitoring going on.

 

Controller swings are subject to the same measurement, and in extreme cases it picks up a device where an axis has been artificially fixed or minimized.

 

I remain, however, concerned that there seems to be a lack of correlation in results between horizontal and vertical mouse swings. I'm not sure if the vertical just lends itself to more straight movement when compared to a horizontal movement, or if there is some lack of resolution in the measurement of the horizontal. 

[JoeF]

Having played all the mouse-based swings it has been my experience that in the horizontal swing it is a bit more difficult to swing with a consistent straight movement.  This would be due to the natural curvature when rotating the wrist that results in an a slight out/in swing path.  I find that an on-plane swing actually feels like I've "pushed" the swing slightly and an in/out swing feels like I'm over-doing the "push".  With a vertical swing it's more of a piston-like straight back/forward movement of the arm resulting in shots with somewhat less variance in swing path.  

[MimicPS]

That could well be the case Joe.

[Charlie]

I use a Logitech MX 518 mouse with a cord. I use the vertical mouse swing, and I get the forgiving device warning almost every round I play. I have never used any cheat software or other aids, nor would I even know where to look for such things, that help to make a straight path with the mouse. So I have some serious doubts about the accuracy of this particular warning.

If this particular mouse is not approved for this game, I would like to know. I don't think I would shoot much worse with a different mouse as I can barely get around in Par at the Pro level as it is; and I currently hit only about half the fairways and greens in a round. I have played around 125 hours with the game.

[✠ davef ✠]

I use a Logitech MX 518 mouse with a cord. I use the vertical mouse swing, and I get the forgiving device warning almost every round I play. I have never used any cheat software or other aids, nor would I even know where to look for such things, that help to make a straight path with the mouse. So I have some serious doubts about the accuracy of this particular warning.

If this particular mouse is not approved for this game, I would like to know. I don't think I would shoot much worse with a different mouse as I can barely get around in Par at the Pro level as it is; and I currently hit only about half the fairways and greens in a round. I have played around 125 hours with the game.

sounds like a bug,could be in the vertical swing,

i use the 700s hard wired and never had that warning using 3c

[maxie]

Corsair Raptor mouse nothing special about 30 quid or so. I never get this message when playing. So i tested  a 3 hole experiment at royal birkdale using motion swing pro and used a cd case edge and i got the message .So with an edge it is possible to hit on plane everytime ,this is why i got that message.I would guess that when playing 3 click you would only get this message if constantly hitting perfect snap which would be virtually impossible without an aid.

[zmax - sim]

You will never get the message with 3C.  Message is only for MS, RTSM, and RTSC.

[Sliceapottomus]

the message comes up when the game detects too many on path swings ...Tested and proven....That much I am certain. what I don't know is if the  game is using putts and short chips for this as well. This was tested by me with my brand new razor mouse.. bottom line the api could not tell the difference between free hand and straight edged shots. that to me is a huge factor.. What we have now is a report that can only suggest that a user "MAY" be using a less sensitive device... as Mike says above if you only occasionally get that message It is not a big deal.. With controllers if your controller triggers this you have a forgiving controller, unless you have software that has made it that way. Mice are a bit more tricky.  bottom line with mice is there are so many settings to adjust you can go to far with mouse speed and dpi settings and not even realize it. I have not gotten the message myself since I wanted to test this concept. It appeared that with my windows mouse speed 700 dpi would trigger the message often at 1600 dpi I have not gotten it once..... remember with mice you have the path and heel/toe to worry about.. Controllers do not have the heel/toe penalty....

[Sliceapottomus]

Also this message is seen by the host of the game so if you see this in multi player it might not be you who's triggering the message. No telling which player triggered it either..which is a problem. The thing with the api is it does report the flags correctly to the player in question.. Just heard this may be fixed so my apologies if it has...

[Charlie]

Thanks for the replies. Regarding mouse settings, I have never tinkered with those. They are set at whatever the default settings are for Windows 10. When I was playing a lot of Links, I was a good player. I carried a -11 handicap with an Elite RTS swing. So I hit a lot of center shots. Well I used to, anyway. I don't play that much computer golf any longer. I find in JNPG that my lack of proper timing contributes to a lot of my bad shots, so perhaps I am still swinging relatively straight.

A suggestion to eliminate what appear to be false positives would be to set the number of "perfect passes" that trigger the warning at a higher number. I miss occasionally during every round. Someone who is using a straight edge will never miss unless they do it intentionally. And they are not likely to intentionally miss very often; or they wouldn't be using an aid in the first place.

And I suppose I will just continue using my Logitech MX 518 mouse since no one has indicated that it is on a list of devices that provide any unfair advantage.

 

[Crusher]

You will never get the message with 3C.  Message is only for MS, RTSM, and RTSC.

 

Agreed.   IMHO keep your JNPG mouse simple and ambidextrous. I have used a V450  since 2012.  I had to replace the original in 2015 (whole lot of clicking). If you search for one to buy, I suggest purchasing one that is not over $20.00 used and not over $50.00 new - from a very reputable seller.

 

Logitech V450 Cordless Laser Mouse Wireless USB Optical

 

[attachment=1386:v450ambi.jpg]

[Charlie]

I tried an experiment. I used the video recording feature in Windows (Xbox capture) to film 10 minutes of hitting a driver on the practice range. If I counted correctly, I hit 26 drives. 22 were on plane. 4 were off plane. Several landed outside the signs because my ratio was wrong. I also had several offset hits, mostly toward the toe. I would be happy to make the video available to the developers if I can figure out how to share it from Xbox. I don't know if this will be helpful to the developers. I assume the high frequency of on plane shots is what triggers the warning. If the frequency is set for less than 15 consecutive shots, I would have set off a warning. My first 14 drives were on plane, my next 3 were off plane, my next 4 were on plane, my next 1 was off plane, and my last 4 were on plane.

[Vernon520]

On this topic I would like to make two points:

1: I use to use a  XEOX  controller by Speedlink  a controller that is supposed to be a 'forgiving device' and one that I played many rounds of golf with and with stats of 90% for FIR and yet I never had one single warning. Why I have no idea.

2: Controller/Mouse v pure skill & experience. There will be many players, if not now, in the future who will sooner or later will become ever more consistent using acceptable device's and may get barred simply because they are better than  everyone else.

If so, then IMO the alert may have a serious flaw as it will not be able to take into account someones improving capabilities.

Just my opinion.

[Greensboronclion]

Vernon even if you wont get a message that controller is a zero axis one and I also had one but sold it on ebay.  Impossible to not hit straight and I shot 59 one round with it at TP and with any other controller at TP I cant sniff par.  Looks good and feels great but its one controller that should be put down and not used.  Don't hate the messenger and I agree with you that it should be banned.

[zmax - sim]

On this topic I would like to make two points:

1: I use to use a  XEOX  controller by Speedlink  a controller that is supposed to be a 'forgiving device' and one that I played many rounds of golf with and with stats of 90% for FIR and yet I never had one single warning. Why I have no idea.

2: Controller/Mouse v pure skill & experience. There will be many players, if not now, in the future who will sooner or later will become ever more consistent using acceptable device's and may get barred simply because they are better than  everyone else.

If so, then IMO the alert may have a serious flaw as it will not be able to take into account someones improving capabilities.

Just my opinion.

 

Bingo

[MERACE]

the message comes up when the game detects too many on path swings ...Tested and proven....That much I am certain. what I don't know is if the  game is using putts and short chips for this as well. This was tested by me with my brand new razor mouse.. bottom line the api could not tell the difference between free hand and straight edged shots. that to me is a huge factor.. What we have now is a report that can only suggest that a user "MAY" be using a less sensitive device... as Mike says above if you only occasionally get that message It is not a big deal.. With controllers if your controller triggers this you have a forgiving controller, unless you have software that has made it that way. Mice are a bit more tricky.  bottom line with mice is there are so many settings to adjust you can go to far with mouse speed and dpi settings and not even realize it. I have not gotten the message myself since I wanted to test this concept. It appeared that with my windows mouse speed 700 dpi would trigger the message often at 1600 dpi I have not gotten it once..... remember with mice you have the path and heel/toe to worry about.. Controllers do not have the heel/toe penalty....

 

Just be thankful that only a message comes up with the suspected use of a zero or dampened x axis controller or mouse. 

 

Prior to switching to a gamepad controller I used a mouse for my virtual golf gaming.  It was a corded optical Logitech MX-310 mouse.  This mouse was a step up from my old worn out ball and roller mouse that needed to be cleaned continuously.  I was a free hand player (no edge or x-axis disabling  software)  mouse swing player and I got very good at moving the mouse straight.

 

During beta testing a past PC version of TW EA introduced an x-axis disabling "penalizer" in the code, that after a random number of consecutive straight mouse movements, the following shot resulted in an automatically missed shot (sliced or hooked).  I and other free hand players complained about the false positives and EA took the "penalizer" out of the code.

 

Some "legal" gamepad controllers can also trigger false positives due to the variation in the dead zones from one controller to the other.  That's why I've always advocated for a controller calibration routine in golf games like there were in many of the old flight sims.

 

 

-MERACE

[Mike Jones]

 

 

Some "legal" gamepad controllers can also trigger false positives due to the variation in the dead zones from one controller to the other.  That's why I've always advocated for a controller calibration routine in golf games like there were in many of the old flight sims.

 

 

-MERACE

 

This was something we considered however a calibration routine cannot get around the hardware elements causing a larger dead zone on a controller so ultimately this solution wouldn't work.

 

After many tests we are happy that our system works almost all of the time but due to different hardware and software involved with different controllers and mice it's impossible for us to say for certain. This is why it's only a warning and it also says it's 'likely' and not you are 'definitely' using a forgiving device.

[Vernon520]

This was something we considered however a calibration routine cannot get around the hardware elements causing a larger dead zone on a controller so ultimately this solution wouldn't work.

 

After many tests we are happy that our system works almost all of the time but due to different hardware and software involved with different controllers and mice it's impossible for us to say for certain. This is why it's only a warning and it also says it's 'likely' and not you are 'definitely' using a forgiving device.

So basically the alert system does not work and the validity of devices are purely down to a players own morality of whether he or she is playing fairly or not which would mean there is no real basis for the system in the first place.

I personally changed my Speedlink controller over to a Xbox 1 purely because the Speedlink was deemed by others on the forum as a forgiving controller but not by the alert system. I would of assumed that everyone playing JNPG would be of the same mentality as mine.

I don't see the point of a system that is not 100% and would not be able to detect whether an improvement of on line shots was because of the device being used or because the player has spent hours upon hours practicing their ass off to become a better player.

My advice would be to remove it and trust in the players to do what's right.

Just my opinion.

[DoGgs]

I have tested xbox officia, DS4, some 3rd party rubbish controller and steam controller...3rd party failed every time, steam controller failed most of the time, but did squeak thru a few rounds.  Played 4 rounds with DS4 and it failed once (game was def easier though) official xbox controller has never failed, its the definitive device for controller play...It works well if you ask me, there are no false reports, i think some people just like to think there are.

[Mike Jones]

So basically the alert system does not work and the validity of devices are purely down to a players own morality of whether he or she is playing fairly or not which would mean there is no real basis for the system in the first place.

I personally changed my Speedlink controller over to a Xbox 1 purely because the Speedlink was deemed by others on the forum as a forgiving controller but not by the alert system. I would of assumed that everyone playing JNPG would be of the same mentality as mine.

I don't see the point of a system that is not 100% and would not be able to detect whether an improvement of on line shots was because of the device being used or because the player has spent hours upon hours practicing their ass off to become a better player.

My advice would be to remove it and trust in the players to do what's right.

Just my opinion.

 

AAA studios invest millions in anti cheat software for their games and cheating is still rampant - please see my earlier post in the thread regarding online multiplayer environments....