173 replies to this topic

[ArcadeHack]

Personally. I don’t think the devs over there play golf. What’s hard for me to swallow is how mp wasn’t even introduced into the second game. On top of that in a convoluted way they defended their actions which no one believed. How in this day with consoles do you NOT include an MP lobby with at least 3-4 games modes into the second iteration of a game? If this is the best they do then maybe they should program the game for the Atari. Done. No no needed.

I believe a TGC3 will come. TGC seems to be the flagship for HB. They now have an uphill climb to win people back.

[Buck]

What’s hard for me to swallow is how mp wasn’t even introduced into the second game.

All the other stuff about the game aside, the direction they took (or didn't) with Multiplayer was the sole reason I immediately ruled the game out and got a refund.
 

 

Personally. I don’t think the devs over there play golf.

It's amazing - Apparently at least some of them do, and are great RL golfers, but you'd sure be left wondering based upon how they translated their real life knowledge into the virtual game of TGC2.

[frank70]

All the other stuff about the game aside, the direction they took (or didn't) with Multiplayer was the sole reason I immediately ruled the game out and got a refund.
 

 

It's amazing - Apparently at least some of them do, and are great RL golfers, but you'd sure be left wondering based upon how they translated their real life knowledge into the virtual game of TGC2.

I simply think that they did not want to make a golf sim. I think they like the arcade elements, or at least think that a lot of customers like those (and they might be right with that).

 

Every golfer sees that for instance the ball physics are way off, You can spin back a flop out of deep rough. But you cannot spin back a loft wedge 5 yards (what is easy in real life). Every LW shot in the game has the same amount of spin - no matter ho much you loft or deloft.

 

So, they know that absolutely as well. But they want the game to be played more or less with a calculator in hand. Because it makes scoring easier. And although i myself hate it: I think a big crowd out there loves to shoot -12 on the hardest settings regularly. They would hate to see the game being a bit more random or less predictable (like real golf). So HB in a way makes what they think is best for sales.

[Buck]

I simply think that they did not want to make a golf sim.

...

So HB in a way makes what they think is best for sales.

 

Precisely why I find myself not caring at all if TGC2 is "it" or if there's a v3 or anything.

Absent a change in direction, that's just never going to be the game for me.

[DivotMaker]

Personally. I don’t think the devs over there play golf. What’s hard for me to swallow is how mp wasn’t even introduced into the second game. On top of that in a convoluted way they defended their actions which no one believed. How in this day with consoles do you NOT include an MP lobby with at least 3-4 games modes into the second iteration of a game? If this is the best they do then maybe they should program the game for the Atari. Done. No no needed.

I believe a TGC3 will come. TGC seems to be the flagship for HB. They now have an uphill climb to win people back.

 

They do play Golf. Just because something exists in the game of Golf, does not mean it is easy to code into a videogame format. Ask Mike and Andrew.....

 

The reason TGC2 does not have a lobby and/or a robust online MP featureset is because Anthony Kyne who was the Producer of TGC2 before he departed had the mindset that a lobby was not a good decision in terms of resources and time for TGC2. I think that mindset is changing due to the backlash.

 

TGC2 focused on improving the swing and they did a good job. Not perfect, but FAR better than TGC1. They focused on character updates and animations and they delivered on that. Two good pieces of foundation. Societies has been a mixed bag with a negative reaction with many in the forums.

 

They have stated they are committing to further developing the TGC franchise now and into the future, but are mum on specifics....(sound familiar?).

 

I do not see a TGC3 until late 2018 at the earliest as it is my guess they still have some things they want to improve with TGC2.

[mebby]

They do play Golf. Just because something exists in the game of Golf, does not mean it is easy to code into a videogame format. Ask Mike and Andrew.....

 

The reason TGC2 does not have a lobby and/or a robust online MP featureset is because Anthony Kyne who was the Producer of TGC2 before he departed had the mindset that a lobby was not a good decision in terms of resources and time for TGC2. I think that mindset is changing due to the backlash.

 

TGC2 focused on improving the swing and they did a good job. Not perfect, but FAR better than TGC1. They focused on character updates and animations and they delivered on that. Two good pieces of foundation. Societies has been a mixed bag with a negative reaction with many in the forums.

 

They have stated they are committing to further developing the TGC franchise now and into the future, but are mum on specifics....(sound familiar?).

 

I do not see a TGC3 until late 2018 at the earliest as it is my guess they still have some things they want to improve with TGC2.

I agree with most of this - well said.

 

However, I do also agree with Frank that even though their know golf, they want their game to include some arcade elements so that it still appeals to the masses.  It's the only way I can explain why Shaun (lead developer and single digit handicapper IRL) would leave the ridiculous loft grid in the game.  He knows that it's not even close to realistic.

 

If you stop using it, the game plays very well actually (besides the stupid chip issues and a few other minor things).

[DivotMaker]

I agree with most of this - well said.

 

However, I do also agree with Frank that even though their know golf, they want their game to include some arcade elements so that it still appeals to the masses.  It's the only way I can explain why Shaun (lead developer and single digit handicapper IRL) would leave the ridiculous loft grid in the game.  He knows that it's not even close to realistic.

 

If you stop using it, the game plays very well actually (besides the stupid chip issues and a few other minor things).

 

Similarly why EA put in that ridiculous post shot spin and arcade crap into Tiger Woods, A PGA TOUR licensed product.....the loft mechanism is far less egregious than what EA did to Tiger. THAT is arcade.

Shaun, like EA realizes that the hardcore simulation fans alone can't pay the bills and ensure a robust return on investment. JNPG is considered much more simulation like and look at the sales numbers....they tell the story unfortunately.

That being said, I think Shaun would be open to giving users and society directors the option to turn the shot shaper off in specific tournaments. Along those lines being able to disable the shot feedback being another good feature. I would love to find a way to enable a gameplay difficulty slide that each user could use to dial in the difficulty they like to play with. It would be primarily for offline and Career play, but you could have tournaments based on certain difficulty levels dictated by those slider settings online.

[mebby]

Similarly why EA put in that ridiculous post shot spin and arcade crap into Tiger Woods, A PGA TOUR licensed product.....the loft mechanism is far less egregious than what EA did to Tiger. THAT is arcade.

Shaun, like EA realizes that the hardcore simulation fans alone can't pay the bills and ensure a robust return on investment. JNPG is considered much more simulation like and look at the sales numbers....they tell the story unfortunately.

That being said, I think Shaun would be open to giving users and society directors the option to turn the shot shaper off in specific tournaments. Along those lines being able to disable the shot feedback being another good feature. I would love to find a way to enable a gameplay difficulty slide that each user could use to dial in the difficulty they like to play with. It would be primarily for offline and Career play, but you could have tournaments based on certain difficulty levels dictated by those slider settings online.

Well said.  I agree.  I'm hopeful that HBS moves closer (or fully) to a difficulty levels based system.  They've held onto the concept of one difficulty level for all and I believe it's proven to not be very effective.  Good theoretical idea but it just doesn't translate very well to a video game.

[axe360]

I don't know, I'm sort of a cut and dry person. I would rather of had Andrew or MIke just say NO!

I know Andrew said what he said but.

[frank70]

I don't know, I'm sort of a cut and dry person. I would rather of had Andrew or MIke just say NO!

I know Andrew said what he said but.

They did not say no.

 

I wouldn't have a problem if they sell the game to a powerhouse like Microsoft - way bigger budget to push the game forward, and - if Microsoft wants - way bigger funds to buy a license or to advertise the game strongly to get a lot more sales/players.

 

Best case would be, if Mike and Andrew would still be a vital part of the development team in the future.

[Wirenut48]

Well said.  I agree.  I'm hopeful that HBS moves closer (or fully) to a difficulty levels based system.  They've held onto the concept of one difficulty level for all and I believe it's proven to not be very effective.  Good theoretical idea but it just doesn't translate very well to a video game.

I agree with this, the analog swing could do so much more to simulate a real golf swing. It would require a physics model different than that of the 3 Click. With analog you can simulate club head speed resulting in varied distance and spin. This would offer different types of shots such as bump and run or bounce and check by varying the length and speed of the swing. Now the tempo component may not work with these physics, but don't think it would be needed. I always viewed the tempo more as an anti edge feature than a realistic swing feature. But with the increased difficulty in distance control I feel it wouldn't be as important.

 

It's just a shame that the analog swing isn't being used to it's fullest potential.

[Stingreye]

Gosh I hope a big company doesn't buy PP/PG,

 

1) The list companies and software programs MS has bought, killed the market it was in, did not update it and let die on the vine is LONG (I am looking at you Windows Media Center).  

2) It will get the big business treatment:

- Game franchise is modestly successful (profitable).  New buyer says, imagine what we could do with it.  It will be huge with our support.

-CEO/TOP Guy -  Why don't we have more sales?  I need answers!

- Team creates a long list of features that would be "killer" and make it happen (Foresight's Zombie Golf anyone!)

- Top guy asks why the game doesn't have all the features that users say they need.  Devs say understaffed.

- Top guy hires more dev because hey if we have the features sales will go through the roof.

- Features implemented in a rush without clear direction.

- Sales up but not as much as needed.

- CFO looks at franchise and says,  we make more money canning it completely.

- CEO provides a business restructuring plan where they focus on what they do best. Franchise is dead.

 

3) Current guys are golf guy enthusiasts up and down.  The work they do for television is amazing.  I bet their course design work is top shelf too.  If new company buys that are not enthusiasts, you will end up with Zombie Golf or in game purchase for a red hot driver.

 

I am likely biased and have a different view of the game here than others.  I am a sim golfer and absolutely love PG.  Its better than software costing thousands more. 

[Buck]

@Stingreye
 

I agree - I also hope no big company buys PG and gives it "the treatment".

 

Looking at your bullet points, we sort of already have one of those issues now that I hope can change at some point (see below)

 

 

Devs say understaffed.

[Buck]

I can't believe we never revisited this forum topic that directly questioned whether PG/PP would be sold!

 

I'd totally forgotten about it (and my vote was wrong too), but it's funny in hindsight to see that when we were discussing this, it would seem that the game/company had already been sold!

 

lmao

hindsight is 20/20 and all that...

[✠ davef ✠]

Bingo,and i was correct on my vote.

and to me it looks to be dead in the water for us folks on PC

not even a little bit of chatter, hey have ya been seeing all the good posts the testers

are putting up about PG2, oh that must have been in a dream, i do dream in PG at times,lol

[Buck]

Bingo,and i was correct on my vote.

 

That you were Dave!  Nice forecasting!

Me?  Not so much..  haha

[✠ davef ✠]

some folks just drank more of the kool-aid.

all good though what can ya do other then wait.

[Buck]

The full list of us that were "wrong"...etched in stone in case anyone tries to flip their vote!   (teasing - lol) 

 

 

 

 

And of course, credit where it's due..

 

 

[JCat04]

LOL... I was right on this, but for the life of me, I now can't recall what it was that convinced me to vote YES. 

[✠ davef ✠]

LOL... I was right on this, but for the life of me, I now can't recall what it was that convinced me to vote YES. 

lack of anything new,and a PG2 we are not even hearing anything about

other then a few pics way back