173 replies to this topic

[Crow357]

Or, if you do decide to buy in early, at the very minimum, know and be honest about the fact that you are taking a risk that things might change or turn out differently than you'd hoped.

 

That could be for every game you buy.

[Buck]

That could be for every game you buy.

 

I totally agree - I guess I don't understand what are you saying or implying?

 

I'm just saying - These are products.  

Buy it if its providing what you want when you buy it.

Future features are a bonus and should not be an expectation.

 

If a customer is buying based upon future features they are hoping for, they have to at least be honest and understand they are taking a risk of some kind.

 

If I want a phillips head screwdriver, I don't go to the store and buy a screwdriver that has a flathead but promises an update later to provide a phillips head and then blame Snap-On if the phillips head never comes.

 

I blame myself for being a dope and buying something that didn't provide what I wanted when I bought it.

 

Consumers bear some responsibility here, no?

[Buck]

The real problem is mixed expectations here.

 

If the game were a software as a service with ongoing subscriptions, I totally think we should be expecting continued development.

 

But it was sold as a product.  

 

Once that route is chosen, it squarely falls into the "here's what you're paying, here's what you're getting - make your decision" category for me.

 

Trust me - I do wish we could go back and switch to something involving the Season Pass model of "buy something" and then pay for ongoing updates and features.  I was very short sighted back then when arguing against that.  

[Greensboronclion]

Come on this is ridiculous as we paid $20 bucks for this game and not to sound snobbish but that aint squat in the gaming business and that is more of a donation than a price paid.  Some here act like they have paid a fortune for this game and to be quite honest can anyone who complains this is not a finished product tell me what they expected for as little as 20 bucks.  Each year the new Madden or NBA2K or whatever comes out for the consoles and the price starts at $59.99 and nobody complains they just buy it and here we have people griping they didn't get a finished product that they spent less on for good case of beer.  You knew what you signed up for is all I got to say and just play the game.

[Buck]

Some here act like they have paid a fortune for this game..

 

 

Remember a quarter of a century ago when Links 386 Pro was a "discount" at $50?

That, by the way, is $87 in 2017 dollars...

 

[Buck]

One other comment on the initial $20 for perfect golf…

Over the past couple years we all have enjoyed complementary online/multiplayer access.
We should've paid $20 over the past two years just for that feature alone, to say nothing of the core software product.

The initial payment for PG1 has more then been compensated for by PP

[clubcaptain]

I can see that PP could very well throw all their eggs into the console baskets. Theory is that there is a much bigger market available. I have a PS4 and it wouldn't be a problem to me to play JNPGA on that machine. When TGC moved to consoles I was pleasantly surprised how good the move was.

 

Here's the BUT. Although I'd be happy to play JNPG on PS4 I would not be happy if customer care, contact and feedback remained at the level it is now and to be honest I would be surprised if there was any noticeable improvement. This company has a systemic dislike of such things. They could be in for a big surprise because the console crowd will have higher expectations of the product and any shortfall by PP will cost them dear. The console crowd will be much more fickle and the many alternative ways to spend their money that come along regularly will be taken.

 

Taking a cue from TGC, there were always delays in implementing new features or upgrades because the console management have high expectancy and they will not let anything through without the most stringent requirements and thorough testing - all much more intensive than what is seen on PC.

[Buck]

@clubcaptain

Just to play devils advocate here, does somebody like EA really provide great support?
How about HB at this point?

I think we might just be a pretty fickle and engaged super minority here.

I can't speak for others but I can say for myself that I have almost never wanted or expected any support whatsoever with my console games over the years. It just never even crosses my mind for some reason with console games.

EA treats their customers like absolute disposable trash and they are doing absolutely fine.
Sure some vocal users get online and say "I'm never using them again"…
...But the dirty little secret is that they quietly do buy the Products.

[zmax - sim]

I can see that PP could very well throw all their eggs into the console baskets. Theory is that there is a much bigger market available. I have a PS4 and it wouldn't be a problem to me to play JNPGA on that machine. When TGC moved to consoles I was pleasantly surprised how good the move was.

 

Here's the BUT. Although I'd be happy to play JNPG on PS4 I would not be happy if customer care, contact and feedback remained at the level it is now and to be honest I would be surprised if there was any noticeable improvement. This company has a systemic dislike of such things. They could be in for a big surprise because the console crowd will have higher expectations of the product and any shortfall by PP will cost them dear. The console crowd will be much more fickle and the many alternative ways to spend their money that come along regularly will be taken.

 

Taking a cue from TGC, there were always delays in implementing new features or upgrades because the console management have high expectancy and they will not let anything through without the most stringent requirements and thorough testing - all much more intensive than what is seen on PC.

 

 

I would have to disagree about the console crowd.  IMO, they are used to being overcharged for crappy games that only last a few months.  The pc crowd is the one that is always complaining.   Just look at this forum.....

[Crusher]

I can see that PP could very well throw all their eggs into the console baskets. Theory is that there is a much bigger market available. I have a PS4 and it wouldn't be a problem to me to play JNPGA on that machine. When TGC moved to consoles I was pleasantly surprised how good the move was.

 

Here's the BUT. Although I'd be happy to play JNPG on PS4 I would not be happy if customer care, contact and feedback remained at the level it is now and to be honest I would be surprised if there was any noticeable improvement. This company has a systemic dislike of such things. They could be in for a big surprise because the console crowd will have higher expectations of the product and any shortfall by PP will cost them dear. The console crowd will be much more fickle and the many alternative ways to spend their money that come along regularly will be taken.

 

Taking a cue from TGC, there were always delays in implementing new features or upgrades because the console management have high expectancy and they will not let anything through without the most stringent requirements and thorough testing - all much more intensive than what is seen on PC.

 

You may or may not have around during the video for Kickstarter.com created b Erik Lugras several years back.  Plus text that was part of the explanation of their reasons (Andrew, Mike, Erik and others) for creating the game.

 

They wanted to create a golf game that would be "plaform agnostic" and promised they would dedicate whatever time it would take to bring the game to fruition.   Though Kickstarter.com failed, they stuck to it with out-of-pocket money.

 

This is their baby and I doubt they would ever sell it.  Now, having said that, if someone offered six guys $6,000,000.00 for this game I would think them crazy not to sell.

[Ted_Ball]

Why hasn't the game been heavily discounted on Steam considering it's likely there'll be no further development of PG1? You never know...people might buy it.

[Richard]

This is their baby and I doubt they would ever sell it.  Now, having said that, if someone offered six guys $6,000,000.00 for this game I would think them crazy not to sell.

 

I'd consider them crazy.  

[zmax - sim]

Why hasn't the game been heavily discounted on Steam considering it's likely there'll be no further development of PG1? You never know...people might buy it.

Great Idea Ted.

[Acrilix]

I don't think there's ever been a discount for the game or DLC even during the many Steam Sales. This has been another PP mistake, in my opinion.

[clubcaptain]

@clubcaptain

Just to play devils advocate here, does somebody like EA really provide great support?
How about HB at this point?

I think we might just be a pretty fickle and engaged super minority here.

I can't speak for others but I can say for myself that I have almost never wanted or expected any support whatsoever with my console games over the years. It just never even crosses my mind for some reason with console games.

EA treats their customers like absolute disposable trash and they are doing absolutely fine.
Sure some vocal users get online and say "I'm never using them again"…
...But the dirty little secret is that they quietly do buy the Products.

Not interested in other companies and I didn't think I mentioned support. EA is a different animal. Part of their arrogance is that they have always had big sales. I don't think PP will be into that league.

 

I was talking about PP providing an experience that will satisfy consolers and the reviewers for that matter.  Remember that a decent review of any golf game has always been hard to come by because usually the reviewers aren't into playing golf games as such. They might give it a couple of goes and that might be it. They've certainly never had experience of handling a course creator.Then they post an iffy review which puts people off. Word travels fast in the console world. It's not going to help.

 

To get the sales PP will have to come up with a top notch game with plenty to engage on day one then be committed to significant upgrades every year. Part of "getting the sales" will be to provide a much better course creator on consoles than the quirky, clunky one we have now. I would have thought that was a big ask. Pushing out new courses in numbers on an ongoing basis will be much more of a requirement than at present.

[Acrilix]

Part of "getting the sales" will be to provide a much better course creator on consoles than the quirky, clunky one we have now. I would have thought that was a big ask. Pushing out new courses in numbers on an ongoing basis will be much more of a requirement than at present.

 

That's more than a big ask...... there's no way that PP will be providing a course creator for PG on consoles! 

[Buck]

Not interested in other companies and I didn't think I mentioned support.

My apologies I guess I misunderstood when you said "customer care, contact and feedback…"
 
 

Although I'd be happy to play JNPG on PS4 I would not be happy if customer care, contact and feedback remained at the level it is now and to be honest I would be surprised if there was any noticeable improvement.

Isn't that sort of what "support" is usually?

I am also confused how you can say you are "not interested in other companies" when you're saying console users are used to a certain experience and have expectations?

Do the users on consoles not derive those very expectations from their experiences with other companies?

[spy88]

In the end your posts read a little like: "I don't want a new PG2 at all, because i won't upgrade my PC and i won't buy a console. I have no use for it. And because of that i would like the devs to spend their time on an old product i have use for - and not on a new product, they might have use for."

Whether it's "...a little like..." or otherwise, you're arrangement of my comments is still not my comments.  I said what I said and that's what it meant.

[frank70]

Whether it's "...a little like..." or otherwise, you're arrangement of my comments is still not my comments.  I said what I said and that's what it meant.

Yeah, you are right. Sorry.

 

I should have written "For me it sounded a little bit like ......"

[Andrew]

Fascinating Read.....

PG2 is a complete overhaul of everything.  Sure we could give you the same game with some new lipstick and a couple of new features and make you buy it again but what does that achieve.  We learnt a lot creating PG1 including mistakes along the way that we intend to learn from.

We are still at it, if you want to know we added the new tracer last week and are adding the new Camera Controller this and next week.