173 replies to this topic

[DivotMaker]

In 2016 pc gaming accounted for 34 billion dollars out of a total 91 billion gaming market. And it's growing. Those are not the signs of a dying pc market. I seem to recall most if not all console games are beta tested on computers first?

PC Golf market is a very small fraction of that number.....

[Jesus Jones]

True Divotmaker. But regardless stil pc games are still a progressive market that won't go away anytime soon. How far back can a consoler player play the older golf games.

[Buck]

How far back can a consoler player play the older golf games.

 

 

If you disregard Multiplayer/online aspects, a long ways back.

 

My PS3 has full TW14 with all DLC and it works and plays as if it were brand new today and will continue to do so essentially as long as my PS3 lasts and/or Sony allows re-downloading of PS3 content (if I were to need another PS3 at some point).

 

PS2 era games all work just fine too, and honestly once you are back that far, as long as you have the hardware & disc/cart, it all continues to work with no issue.

 

Whether it's PC or Console, Multiplayer/online stuff will be the sticking point moving forward unless someone offers direct IP connections again in a golf game.  Otherwise there will be ongoing costs to providing multiplayer access for the developers, thus necessitating an ongoing business model.

[Greensboronclion]

Heck my Sega and Dreamcast still work.

[Buck]

Heck my Sega and Dreamcast still work.

 

I just got a hold of NEO TurfMasters golf on my iPad (Neo-Geo/Arcade game that got ported over)

Great fun on the go!

 

Hey!  It's even click golf!  How about that!??

 

[DivotMaker]

True Divotmaker. But regardless stil pc games are still a progressive market that won't go away anytime soon. How far back can a consoler player play the older golf games.

 

Yes, but PC Golf games don't drive any real measurable growth in the PC gaming industry. Golf is very much a niche' product.

[jeffield]

If you disregard Multiplayer/online aspects, a long ways back.

 

My PS3 has full TW14 with all DLC and it works and plays as if it were brand new today and will continue to do so essentially as long as my PS3 lasts and/or Sony allows re-downloading of PS3 content (if I were to need another PS3 at some point).

 

PS2 era games all work just fine too, and honestly once you are back that far, as long as you have the hardware & disc/cart, it all continues to work with no issue.

 

Whether it's PC or Console, Multiplayer/online stuff will be the sticking point moving forward unless someone offers direct IP connections again in a golf game.  Otherwise there will be ongoing costs to providing multiplayer access for the developers, thus necessitating an ongoing business model.

man, I am so disappointed I got sucked into the rrod xbox360's.  my last one " the jasper" just rrod me.  so now I have no tiger '14.  also that was the one year I didn't  buy every single dlc course because I thought we were going to get something really special on the ps4.  ... yeah,  and now I could buy another old style 360 and wait for my next rrod but, I don't know I'm sick of those things, I went thru about 4 of them.

[Greensboronclion]

I just got a hold of NEO TurfMasters golf on my iPad (Neo-Geo/Arcade game that got ported over)
Great fun on the go!
 
Hey!  It's even click golf!  How about that!??

 

Just got it for my Samsung Tablet as it will be a nice diversion on the road.

[spy88]

You know, it wouldn't hurt for the older crowd to at least admit there's a different perspective, necessarily, for PP.

 

They are not older and not done moving forward in life.  

They are trying to run a business.

 

"leave it alone", "PG1 is fine, just tweak some things" and "keep the PG1 servers going forever and I'll play that"..

 

..are all non-starters if you are trying to run a business.

OK.  I'm 68 and I admit there are other perspectives at play.  But Buck, I truly hope you're not saying that those of us that bought PG1, enjoy PG1, want to keep playing PG1, and for whatever reason(s) won't or can't  jump to PG2 when available, would be left to fend for themselves without it being a finished product  simply because it's a business.

 

Run a business?  Yea, I understand that.  But basically dumping this group is tantamount to self destruction business-wise for future prospective customers.  Would you buy a new product from a company that you knew had done this to previous customers?

[frank70]

OK.  I'm 68 and I admit there are other perspectives at play.  But Buck, I truly hope you're not saying that those of us that bought PG1, enjoy PG1, want to keep playing PG1, and for whatever reason(s) won't or can't  jump to PG2 when available, would be left to fend for themselves without it being a finished product  simply because it's a business.

 

Run a business?  Yea, I understand that.  But basically dumping this group is tantamount to self destruction business-wise for future prospective customers.  Would you buy a new product from a company that you knew had done this to previous customers?

But you said, that you won't buy the "new product" anyway. Why spend ressources for past customers who openly state, that they won't be customers in the future? That is not smart business at all.

 

I am not a young gun either - mid fourties. But the days of Links are gone. One game that lasts over a decade - won't ever happen again. Technologies are getting more advanced faster than ever. Products are (or feel) older faster than in the past. In the gaming world 2017 you have to act quicker. And therefore the very, very slow development pace is a mistake by PP imo. If they "finish" PG2 in a year or maybe two years .... from a technology standpoint the game could very well look or be outdated by then again.

[ArcadeHack]

But you said, that you won't buy the "new product" anyway. Why spend ressources for past customers who openly state, that they won't be customers in the future? That is not smart business at all.

 

I am not a young gun either - mid fourties. But the days of Links are gone. One game that lasts over a decade - won't ever happen again. Technologies are getting more advanced faster than ever. Products are (or feel) older faster than in the past. In the gaming world 2017 you have to act quicker. And therefore the very, very slow development pace is a mistake by PP imo. If they "finish" PG2 in a year or maybe two years .... from a technology standpoint the game could very well look or be outdated by then again.

 

 World Of Warcraft is 14 years old and still running with expansions still coming. So yeah. Games can and do last. WOW has the benifit of having millions of players. But, Spy88 amongst others are in the minority here. PP is slating to make a console release and if done well could attract thousands? of new players. The 100's of pc players arn't even worth thier time to hold onto. The only PC players they need are the sim players. They make alot more off them than they do us regular players.

[spy88]

But you said, that you won't buy the "new product" anyway. Why spend ressources for past customers who openly state, that they won't be customers in the future? That is not smart business at all.

Not buying the new product because of the added requirements (upgrade to Win10, controller) is not  the same as not buying it based on past customer relations, which is still a unknown at this point.  I'm a loyal PG1 customer and will be til either it, or me, dies.  I'd also not buy a product had I prior knowledge would never see completion standards expected by the developers or the base customers. 

[frank70]

 World Of Warcraft is 14 years old and still running with expansions still coming. So yeah. Games can and do last. WOW has the benifit of having millions of players. But, Spy88 amongst others are in the minority here. PP is slating to make a console release and if done well could attract thousands? of new players. The 100's of pc players arn't even worth thier time to hold onto. The only PC players they need are the sim players. They make alot more off them than they do us regular players.

Well, yeah .... there are outliers. But we cannot really compare JNPG to WOW, right? Spy was right in a way: The game isn't really finished (no animations, no career mode, etc.). So: JNPG has no real future. PG2 might have a future. If it has the looks, the game modes and enough marketing to get sales (consoles!). A game with such a small player base (like JNPG now) will not last that long. Although it is the best golf sim out there.

[frank70]

Not buying the new product because of the added requirements (upgrade to Win10, controller) is not  the same as not buying it based on past customer relations, which is still a unknown at this point.  I'm a loyal PG1 customer and will be til either it, or me, dies.  I'd also not buy a product had I prior knowledge would never see completion standards expected by the developers or the base customers. 

That's fair to say. But in the end, it makes no difference for PP: You won't upgrade to Win 10 or buy a console. So you won't be a future customer. JNPG wasn't a financial success - not enough sales, although i could imagine that the income from the sim guys is pretty good. The only chance to make the game a financial success is, to bring it to modern standards and sell it on as many plattforms as possible. Spending time and ressources on a game that isn't ready for the future (JNPG) is not smart business.

[Pappy]

Not buying the new product because of the added requirements (upgrade to Win10, controller) is not  the same as not buying it based on past customer relations, which is still a unknown at this point.  I'm a loyal PG1 customer and will be til either it, or me, dies.  I'd also not buy a product had I prior knowledge would never see completion standards expected by the developers or the base customers. 

How about doing what happened to Links - sell (or give away) the source code of the PC version of PG1 in order to upgrade some things that were promised but never happened? (Lefties, crowd, announcer, modify the ani's looks, add some more clubs etc etc). I'd pay some more for that rather than unknown PG2. I'm perfectly contented with PG1 with a few changes and bug eliminations.

Edit: In fact this could stay the "PC version" of PG1 and PG2 can focus on SIM and consoles.

[spy88]

frank, whether or not PG is or isn't a financial success, whether or not I'm in a minority of players not able or willing to upgrade and whether or not JNPG has a future isn't my problem.  But if we (the minority) are  left with a unfinished product and no support, do you really think we'll just die a quiet death?  Mike asked back in early 2016 for us to 'prop up' our reviews on Steam telling us this is important...and it is.  But if we die, there's not only Steam, but FB, Twitter and plenty of other social media that could be used to vent the situation...and could be detrimental to any JNPG2.  And I'm not saying this is something I would do but then I don't control the other people in this minority group.

 

The 'bite back' could cost as much to JNPG2 as it might to keep JNPG1 alive.  Just food for thought, business-wise.

[spy88]

How about doing what happened to Links - sell (or give away) the source code of the PC version of PG1 in order to upgrade some things that were promised but never happened? (Lefties, crowd, announcer, modify the ani's looks, add some more clubs etc etc). I'd pay some more for that rather than unknown PG2. I'm perfectly contented with PG1 with a few changes and bug eliminations.

 

Pappy, I agree this might work but think there are major issues far more important than cosmetics imo.  Plus, I've no idea if my present computer could even handle them (I already had to upgrade to a i5 processor over a i3.  Game caused a huge  heat problem with the i3).  And the 12G memory is having issues also.  Pay more for it?  Don't think I should have to to salvage the original purchase and the expectations that came with it. 

[frank70]

frank, whether or not PG is or isn't a financial success, whether or not I'm in a minority of players not able or willing to upgrade and whether or not JNPG has a future isn't my problem.  But if we (the minority) are  left with a unfinished product and no support, do you really think we'll just die a quiet death?  Mike asked back in early 2016 for us to 'prop up' our reviews on Steam telling us this is important...and it is.  But if we die, there's not only Steam, but FB, Twitter and plenty of other social media that could be used to vent the situation...and could be detrimental to any JNPG2.  And I'm not saying this is something I would do but then I don't control the other people in this minority group.

 

The 'bite back' could cost as much to JNPG2 as it might to keep JNPG1 alive.  Just food for thought, business-wise.

I hold customer rights in high regards. But technically you got a complete game. PP didn't tell us "this and this and this will finally be in the game" (for the same price!).

 

PP should absulutely work on existing bugs and absolutely should have the servers running for PG1 (or is that through steam?).

 

But other than that? I don't think they really have an obligation to continue working on PG1. They start a new product and you are free to buy it or not.

 

In the end your posts read a little like: "I don't want a new PG2 at all, because i won't upgrade my PC and i won't buy a console. I have no use for it. And because of that i would like the devs to spend their time on an old product i have use for - and not on a new product, they might have use for."

[frank70]

Aaah .... before i forget it: Still no answer, if the game is sold or not. Or have i missed something?

[Buck]

I was going to respond but I'm happy to say that Frank70 said all I would have anyhow, thanks Frank!

The one thing I would say, to all users of games in general, is this:


Do not buy games that do not have the features you want, at the time you buy them.


I know that's somewhat antithetical to our good natures and desire to support smaller endeavors, but the reality is that a game purchase is not a contract between Dev & Customer about future ideas/thoughts/things they might add, etc. It can feel that way to us because there is communication and screenshots and forum posts and "Dev Diaries", etc.

But the bottom line is, don't count on any of that.

This is business.
Buy what they are selling if you like what you see at the time of sale.

Or, if you do decide to buy in early, at the very minimum, know and be honest about the fact that you are taking a risk that things might change or turn out differently than you'd hoped.