60 replies to this topic

[Affo]

How important is a good AI?

 

For Career Mode (was supposed to be in JNPG 1, let's hope it makes JNPG2), very important. You want scores which relate to your selected level. Like any golf game, or game full stop, eventually the low, low scores will be shot no matter the course or conditions, people learn the game, so having AI players that can adapt to your scoring levels?? possible??

 

Apart from Career, I see little point of good AI, personally speaking of course.

 

Other things that would be better, the monthly events hosted are meaningless, leads to nothing. The 2 sites have events which (if that's what you like) have events which lead to something, a Tour win, a Season win. For mainly offline players, this is important.

 

Optimisation. My laptop is a year old but still quite reasonable spec wise and this game is about the only one that makes the fans go full blast. I even got some cooler fans added and it did help.

 

3C Meter, needs  to be more consistent, many have reported issues, tough to replicate, but slides, pauses, jerks...not sure of the answer really.

 

Just a few things on my mind, but interest is dwindling a bit, may be just the Season and work, just not busting to get all the comp rounds in which is a shame.....and Football Manager is out again and I missed last year, so getting into that this year!

[Ted_Ball]

I think it's important for everybody to think about why the game was not more successful this first time around.

 

1.   Negative Steam reviews. Understandable and justified.

2.   Complete lack of promotion

3.   Unfinished at release and excruciatingly slow development (and still unfinished to an acceptable level)

4.   High price for unfinished game (and high cost of DLC)

5.   Dead multiplayer action in lobby

6.   Way too much time spent on developing AI (which still sucks) and for dubious benefits.

 

All of the above contribute to severely low player numbers and if you don't have the numbers all of us are screwed.

 

They might say they'll learn from the mistakes from PG1 but there will be a whole new set of mistakes in PG2 and we will be back to excruciatingly slow deveopment and fixes.

[Acrilix]

The only way the humans CAN answer questions is on a personal level.  That's the very nature of a forum - to provide personal opinions.

 

The issue here is that the personal opinions contained in this particular forum don't seem to jive with your own opinions.

 

I respect your thoughts and opinions Acrilix and I appreciate you... not trying to be combative, just stating my thoughts. 

 

There is a great difference between what creates success for a game and what people's personal preferences are.

I'm not concerned with whether opinions match my own. My point is that you can look at what is best for someone else... in this case PP, instead of just what is best for yourself, which is predominantly what most people are doing in their replies here. Statements like "I don't use AI because I play multiplayer Tours" doesn't address the question that this thread asked at all.

I know that tournament play and competition is important to most players and so I would support PP implementing this in the game, even though I have no interest in these myself. This will attract more players to the game... FACT, and will make it more successful. I have no interest in them whatsoever, but that is a totally different matter than whether they are needed for a successful product.

For the way I play this game, I don't personally even need a PG2.... whether it has 3D grass, female golfers, realistic AI, or a career mode! 

[Acrilix]

I don't personally even need a PG2....

 

that is of course, until PP turn off the PG1 server some time after PG2's release, and I can't play multiplayer any more, or play any of the user courses... including my own! 

[jt83]

Mebby, I agree with you. But one observation. Nothing in this topic means a hill of beans to the developers.

 

Yep, accepted that a while ago, which I why I don't post much about what I'd like out of PG2.

 

that is of course, until PP turn off the PG1 server some time after PG2's release, and I can't play multiplayer any more, or play any of the user courses... including my own! 

 

Offline play would be nice.  If that doesn't happen, hopefully converting courses isn't too onerous.

[Acrilix]

Offline play would be nice.  If that doesn't happen, hopefully converting courses isn't too onerous

 

Only designers that are still around and have kept the project folder for their course will be able to do this, if I am understanding correctly. The rest of the courses will be lost forever once the server is shut down, unless PP release a version of JNPG where user courses can be played offline.

[Dazmaniac]

How important is a good AI?

 

For Career Mode (was supposed to be in JNPG 1, let's hope it makes JNPG2), very important. You want scores which relate to your selected level. Like any golf game, or game full stop, eventually the low, low scores will be shot no matter the course or conditions, people learn the game, so having AI players that can adapt to your scoring levels?? possible??

 

The AI that Andy refers to above, to me is different AI to that used in a career mode.

 

Most golf games that have a career mode don't have 100+ AI golfer animations actually playing the game, they are all just computer generated scores which we compete against on in tournament leaderboards, like Rory PGA. This is totally different to AI that you actually play against in a round and the animation is computer controlled rather than by a human.

 

They are both AI, but working in totally different ways. 

[DennisHarris]

Like most people here you seem to be answering the question on a personal level. What is important to the individuals left on this forum has very little to do with what will actually make PG2 a successful release for PP, especially with the forthcoming console version.

I do not agree.  The players on this forums personal views are extremely important when determining the success of JNPG2.   The Console version of the game simply means more video game players will give JNPG2 a try.  Does not mean anything more than that.  JNPG2 will remain true to its simulation based golf game.  So I see nothing changing much except having more controller players wanting the same simulation based game as we on the forum want.   

[Acrilix]

I do not agree.  The players on this forums personal views are extremely important when determining the success of JNPG2.   The Console version of the game simply means more video game players will give JNPG2 a try.  Does not mean anything more than that.  JNPG2 will remain true to its simulation based golf game.  So I see nothing changing much except having more controller players wanting the same simulation based game as we on the forum want.   

 

Very few video game players will give JNPG2 a try unless certain points are addressed, otherwise it will just end up as another expensive lesson in time and money for PP, and hold back the potential of this game's development for everyone. The only way that the development speed of this game will substantially increase is if sales substantially increase, allowing the team to grow and therefore the game to grow too, and the only way that will happen is if console game sales are good.

PP's desire to keep this game simulation based doesn't have to be compromised to do this, but creating more mass appeal is a must if the game is going to develop quickly enough for its aged followers to ever see it in a 'finished' state!

JNPG in its current state would go down like a lead balloon on consoles. The content isn't there for the single player experience, the GUI is terrible, and the game is bug ridden. We here may still love JNPG, but these things need to change if it is to become successful financially.

[Ted_Ball]

JNPG in its current state would go down like a lead balloon on consoles. The content isn't there for the single player experience, the GUI is terrible, and the game is bug ridden. We here may still love JNPG, but these things need to change if it is to become successful financially.

 

Well said Acrilix. 

 

This post has reminded me how utterly awful the GUI is. We all just put up with this horror that's been with us for years. For a graphic designer this is simply woeful in its look, functionality, waste of space and don't mention the bloody carousel. I simply cannot see how this couldn't have been updated and improved in all that time. You can't convince me that it couldn't have taken a day or two to fix. It's just one other thing that people take one look at and think 'WTF'? It is a good example of PP's disregard.   

[worrybirdie]

Its like being in the Russian Duma just before the revolution.

[DoGgs]

I don't know the process here, but you never see JNPG in the steam sale at any time during the year.  If the game was hugely reduced once or twice a year you may get more takers even with the current issues.  Lets imagine the game gets a 60% off reduction for a few weeks, 1000 people buy the game.  Now lets imagine 500 enjoy it and really get into the experience,  maybe 200 then go on to purchase Troon or one or two other courses that are for sale.  You now have good exposure and recouped some reduction loss through additional course sales.  I am quite surprised PP has not tried to do this, lets face it, how many copies are they selling right now week in week out.  I see posts on the other game's site time after time stating that TGC is not that great but it's the only game out there right now, and this is in the PC threads,  so many steam users are not even aware of the game, and thats what steam sales are for, to raise the profile back up.

[GoldenBear]

Well said Acrilix. 

 

This post has reminded me how utterly awful the GUI is. We all just put up with this horror that's been with us for years. For a graphic designer this is simply woeful in its look, functionality, waste of space and don't mention the bloody carousel. I simply cannot see how this couldn't have been updated and improved in all that time. You can't convince me that it couldn't have taken a day or two to fix. It's just one other thing that people take one look at and think 'WTF'? It is a good example of PP's disregard.   

To this day I cannot understand why PP did not use the whole screen for the UI.  This would solve the problem with only seeing part of long course names in multiplayer just for starters.  Duh!

[Crow357]

Let's see your design Ted.

[Greensboronclion]

Only designers that are still around and have kept the project folder for their course will be able to do this, if I am understanding correctly. The rest of the courses will be lost forever once the server is shut down, unless PP release a version of JNPG where user courses can be played offline.

This is what bothers me the most about Steam and digital downloads as the game goes away if the servers have shut down and that is what I hate. I have all the discs for my old PS3 and Xbox360 games and the same for my Xbox One and old PC games but nothing thru Steam and if support goes for the game it can't be played. Right now I have Rory and TGC for my Xbox One and am now leaning Xbox One for JNPG2 as at least down the line I can play if support goes away. To me the PC has always been my preferred way of Golf gaming but that could change shortly.

[Ted_Ball]

Let's see your design Ted.

 

$80 an hour

[jmk59]

$80 an hour

If its anything like your art work on the FRETT competitions, I'd pay you for at least the first hour, Ted.

[Ted_Ball]

Well thanks J.

 

I might do an Elo table example at work tomorrow to see how it looks and what detail needs to be displayed....all for free! It will look like I'm working.

[wim1234]

We have quite the interesting dynamic here on the forum..

A whole bunch of us don't give a single flying F what the others think, yet we all keep participating here for some reason.

We are a weird group
LOL

hahahahaha Buck, now thats an understatement lol, you make me laff

[mrblondini]

Personally, I don't really think PG2 needs to graphically show AI. Okay, maybe if you're playing a tournament it adds to "immersion" and "reality" (the two most meaningless, nebulous words used by PC gamers IMHO) to have an AI player playing alongside you - as it is actually realistic players play in threes/pairs...

But even if you think showing AI players playing alongside you is a good addition that doesn't meet the main issue - and it's what put me off Tiger Woods Online although it was humans doing it - of unrealistic scores/accuracy. For those of us who remember Tiger Woods Online - how often did the "oh well, if they're that good (pressing buttons with 0.00001 accuracy hmmm are they using a programmed clicker or something?) I'll just eff off and play solitaire or some other single player game!"feeling strike? Who wants to go up against players who've got -20 after 18 holes!?!?

I don't mind losing - heck, I'd be more disturbed/confused if I won a game against a human/AI player I'm that naff - but I do mind losing to an opponent who's, as I say, -20 after 18 holes...

Actually, in thinking about it, the -20/18 Holes issue is, so far as I've seen in playing various PC golf games, purely a human thing but certainly the accuracy is an AI thing: I've created players in JNPG with 5s in every attribute and sometimes they get the ball within 1-2 metres of the hole, sometimes 8-10+. So their short game seems believable enough. But even with a 5 in putting, the AI player is disturbingly very accurate. Surely, with a 5 rating, you'd expect more variability in an AI player's game...