129 replies to this topic

[Dazmaniac]

It's not about speculating, it's about giving thoughts that may help PP make their choice. A serious Steam addict for example will have very good information to bring to the table.

 

I use Steam, but wouldn't call myself an addict, though I do have over 40 games in my library, lol

 

All Steam is, is a portal for buying, storing and playing your games. The prices that are offered are what the games developers are asking for. Any games that are included in the 'Steam Sales' are games where Valve (the creators of Steam) have contacted the developers and based on their number crunching statistics, said to the developers "Look, if you put your game up for sale with XX% discount, you will get XXX purchases over a given period".

 

This is what happened on Steam with Kunos Simulazione, who are making Assetto Corsa. KS put the sim up for Early Access at a discounted price (€34.99) from their RRP value (€44.99). After a few weeks, Assetto Corsa appeared in the Steam Sales with 25% off the already discounted price, so was now (€26.25), because Valve had contacted them, given them the figures and Kunos said, "OK". It is now back at it's initial discounted price of €34.99.

 

Games range from just a few quid - usually the Indie developers - to anything up to £35/£40 from the more well known development houses. But over time, almost all titles will appear in some way, shape or form in the Steam Sales.

 

[Perculator]

I think $39.99 for the game (downloadable, or CD/DVD)

39.99 for a years subscription w/ free updates

4.99 Monthly w/ free updates

I dont mind buying clubs that give me, better attributes. Hell, I dont even mind buying balls that will give me better spin and distance. If we was playing real golf we'd be buying clubs to get better attributes anyways. But the pricing has to be reasonable. Not like WGT! I think in the past 6 months alone since TWO went down I have put well over $500 into balls and clubs, just to keep up with my friends on there.

I think if they bundle all the best clubs and balls into a elite golf bag and make the balls have a limited number of hits on each. I'd pay like $20 for that.. I like buying new balls to try out and to see how they feel. So in some ways I like WGT. But the idea of having to buy 10000($100) credits just to get a descent set of clubs and balls to keep up with my friends is a bit ridiculous to me. But thats what I paid, and then some.

Me being disabled and confined to a wheelchair between 16 and 20 hours/day(and use a mouthstick to play computer games because I'm unable to use my hands) and I'm on SSI  and only make $700/month. So $100 is a lot of money for me. I play simulated golf because I cant play real golf. Its a good platform for me to make new friends. Not only that, it gives me a break from my own reality, that I may not ever be able to play real golf.

So please PP, I beg you, dont charge an arm and a leg to play.

Thanks for listening

 

Well, I'ts fine that you are ok with the way WGT operates and don't mind paying for skills. However, with all due respect, if PG implements any of that kind of thing I will be very dissapointed .... just sayin.

Please PG, don't do it.

[Dazmaniac]

Well, I'ts fine that you are ok with the way WGT operates and don't mind paying for skills. However, with all due respect, if PG implements any of that kind of thing I will be very dissapointed .... just sayin.

Please PG, don't do it.

 

Agree 100%.

 

The WGT/GolfStar/TWO way of adding boosts to power, distance, stamina, accuracy, touch, putting, tee shots etc. through buying things like balls, clubs, tees, shirts, caps, trousers and shoes just isn't for me. I am sure that PG will not see these arcade add-ons included, as the game itself is being built upon what they are working towards with actual golf simulators.

 

I'm all for PG having clubs, balls and apparel available to add to player animations, but only for cosmetic effect.

[Azorees]

I think that there is too much of this buying a game for around £30 - £50 then having to pay extra for DLC I think that all DLC should be classed as updates and free of charge the online subscription is not to bad of an idea but more companies now as what I see is ripping off the community by making you buy the game the charging for things like map updates and DLC plus even some of them want an online subscription too. so I think the right choices are 1 make the online client a free download and charge for Online play and any DLC.

2. User has to purchase the game and can play offline modes for free but pay a yearly or monthly subscription to play online DLC free.

3. User purchases the game can play online or offline for free but has to purchase DLC.

4. User purchases game in 3 different classes class one is basic £34.99 which consists off no DLC but online is free any DLC is purchased as single download or a pack. Class 2 is Purchase Deluxe for £44.99 which gives you some of the DLC maybe 1 DLC pack containing 2 new courses " when available " a few clubs and balls along with a new cart. 3. Premium £54.99 which all DLC is free. obviously I don't know how much DLC is going to be available throughout the life span of the game but the basic should be priced around £30-£45 and the deluxe and premium can vary depending on what DLC packs are put together normaly I would say £10 per DLC pack which would consist of 2 courses plus new clubs,balls and mabe a cart or if no cart 3 courses.

as for clothing I think should be unlockable either via online play or by playing against different CPU based opponents in the offline mode.

DLC consists of any new courses, balls,clubs,carts. basically anything that adds any new items to the game.

[Azorees]

Reply to Richbrunkers post ... sorry guys it wouldn't let me quote his post

 

but the problem is this isn't real golf so we should have to compare it to the cost of playing for real I do agree though that you should be able to use a ball a limited number of times as the more that ball gets used the more damaged it becomes over time which means you will need to replace your balls at some time in the game which could be done via PErfect credits which is earned via online play and for every PVP game you play online you receive PErfect credits to buy consumables only PErfect credits will not allow you to purchase any DLC and the golf balls in the DLC are pro only golf balls the game starts with no DLC and the golf balls are as basic as they come.

[Dazmaniac]

Drifting off on slight tangent with the pricing discussion, I found a great example of just what the Early Access route on Steam can do for a product.

 

Don't know if any of you have heard of a project in the works called Next Car Game by BugBear entertainment? Well they went down the Kickstarter route and fell way short of their pledge goal (sound familiar?). So, they regrouped, decided to continue with the project and sold the game from their own site (with similar pricing levels to what the Kickstarter had) but anyone buying, was given a Steam Key for the game, so they could activate the Early Access build though Steam. I pledged and have been messing with the early build demo over Christmas.

 

Anyway, back on subject, the following excerpt from a BugBear article over at Team VVV's website, which shows just what Early Access can do for a project:-

 

Rewind a few months back, and things weren't quite as rosy for the Finnish developer. Their Kickstarter campaign, which was used as a primary source of funding alongside pre-orders, completely flopped, failing to reach their target funding goal of $350,000. Yet they have now reached and topped this original goal in just one week thanks to the Steam Early Access incentive.

 

[BongoBong]

A few thoughts on this.

 

Subscriptions are not a good way to go for a bunch of reasons. They prevent casual players from starting the game. Even if its only for the online portion, many players will immediately say no if they have to pay a subscription to play online. This isn't going to be the next world of warcraft for the vast majority of players. Asking them to pay a subscription just to get online for a game that would likely be looked at as somewhat casual for a large number of players wouldn't work. I feel like any sort of subscription based pricing is likely to relegate the game to a niche market (more niche then it already is). You don't have to look far to see that subscription based gamse are becoming a thing of the past. 

 

Ideally I think they should price the game around $20-$30 that gives you for the most part the whole game but also have other ways to make money. Things like playing in tournaments, or leagues could cost some money. Cosmetic items. Not sure how progression will work in the game, but I would prefer if the game stayed away from paying for power, but I don't mind things like exp boosters or currency boosters. Those still allow players to be on an "equal" level while allowing the devs to make some money from people willing to pay a bit to reduce any grind.

 

I have seen quite a few suggestions going for the high game cost and subscription method but I really think that would be a huge turnoff for many players considering the large number of very good cheap, if not completely free games out there.

[Perculator]

"but I would prefer if the game stayed away from paying for power, but I don't mind things like exp boosters or currency boosters. Those still allow players to be on an "equal" level while allowing the devs to make some money from people willing to pay a bit to reduce any grind."

 

 

(The above is a quote that I attempted to edit down to the portion in question. It did not work out as I intended .... anyway)

 

 

Could you please explain exactly what "exp or currency boosters" are?

[Dazmaniac]

 

"but I would prefer if the game stayed away from paying for power, but I don't mind things like exp boosters or currency boosters. Those still allow players to be on an "equal" level while allowing the devs to make some money from people willing to pay a bit to reduce any grind."

 

 

(The above is a quote that I attempted to edit down to the portion in question. It did not work out as I intended .... anyway)

 

 

Could you please explain exactly what "exp or currency boosters" are?

 

 

P,

 

I think the boosters you ask about are traits of games like TWO, WGT and Golfstar.

 

EXP boosts would enable your player to increase certain personal traits like Skill, Stamina, Strength, Touch etc. or maybe the original poster is thinking more of a career game where the player continually levels up and gains experience points from things achieved during gameplay or from paying real cash to buy the increases. IMO, these things are gimmicks and best left to arcade games or MMO-RPG type games.

 

I guess with me coming from a Links series background, all this golfing power-up/level-up nonsense has passed me by, as with Links you basically choose a swing type and a skill level and that is it. The rest is down to the players own ability. None of this playing online with another player who uses the same swing type and skill level as you, but because he is LVL 14 and you are only LVL 5, he gets certain advantages over you like additional power shots or super balls etc.

 

It comes down to the same thing a lot of these free-to-play games offer. You can play the game for free and through your continued play over time, you will slowly level up your character. The other option is to use real cash and buy these upgrades, so effectively short-cutting your way to the higher levels. While these work to a degree in other games, it would put me off playing PG if they went down that road.

 

That is why you will see some games referred to as Pay-to-Win, as the quick way to get to the highest levels is to pay your way there with real cash (so whilst the game was free, you spend real money buying micro-transaction upgrades), as to achieve them through gameplay alone would take months and months, if not years.

 

[BongoBong]

 

"but I would prefer if the game stayed away from paying for power, but I don't mind things like exp boosters or currency boosters. Those still allow players to be on an "equal" level while allowing the devs to make some money from people willing to pay a bit to reduce any grind."

 

 

(The above is a quote that I attempted to edit down to the portion in question. It did not work out as I intended .... anyway)

 

 

Could you please explain exactly what "exp or currency boosters" are?

 

What I mean by that is if the game has levelling and earning experienc you could buy an exp booster so that you gain experience faster than you normally would. It's not directly making you stronger than someone who hasn't spent money because people can level up just as much as you can they just need to play more. Same thing for the currency booster where if you need to earn currency to buy things in the game, you could buy a booster so that you earn more per game. Once again not directly making you stronger then someone who doesn't buy it because they can play more to get the same amount of currency.

 

So basically its buying convenience, not an item that is better than anything someone who hasn't spent money can get.

 

This of course is only if they go the route of progressing within the game as opposed to you are as good as you are going to be right off the bat.

[Perculator]

What I mean by that is if the game has levelling and earning experienc you could buy an exp booster so that you gain experience faster than you normally would. It's not directly making you stronger than someone who hasn't spent money because people can level up just as much as you can they just need to play more. Same thing for the currency booster where if you need to earn currency to buy things in the game, you could buy a booster so that you earn more per game. Once again not directly making you stronger then someone who doesn't buy it because they can play more to get the same amount of currency.

 

So basically its buying convenience, not an item that is better than anything someone who hasn't spent money can get.

 

This of course is only if they go the route of progressing within the game as opposed to you are as good as you are going to be right off the bat.

 

OK, I was afraid of that. Anyway, I have faith in PG and that they will avoid a model like that like the plague.

 

Hate to bring real life issues into this discussion, but I think some comparison is warranted. People can, and do, spend thousands of real dollars on the best designer equipment, shoes, balls and what not. This does not mean squat unless one can put said designer club squarely on the backside of said designer golf ball. That requires skill and practice. Sure, you can hire Hank Haney, but it still requires skill and practice to be a good player.

Frankly, I wish this discussion about buying anything that would constitute a shortcut to being a good player could just be put to rest. I guess the dev team is still thinking about it ....

Staying tuned ....

[Acrilix]

This of course is only if they go the route of progressing within the game as opposed to you are as good as you are going to be right off the bat.

 

How good you are, or are going to be, really should be decided by your own ability, and not by how many experience points you've accumulated, or alternatively by how much money you've spent to alleviate the need for this process. Unless of course we are roleplaying the rise of a pro to becoming a champion, rather than challenging ourselves to master a game/simulation.

For me, the worst thing about the otherwise rather enjoyable TW series was the way you gained stats that would 'help' the ball into the hole for you. I only really gain satisfaction from the thought that I holed the shot, not that the game did it for me.

[fungolfer]

If I want an arcade game I can play ShotOnline or WGT, if I want to play a pure Sim I can play Links, if I want to play a mix I can play TW Series. The devs mentioned that they don't plan an arcade game and I really hope they don't. However, if they go the arcade game they will loose alot of players, if they go the sim way, they will also loose a bunch of interested players.

I for myself hope it will be a golf sim. I'm sick of all this arcade bs. If someone wants to be a good player he/she needs to play the game. He/she needs to find a way thru the courses and sink the balls because he/she knows what to do and not because some gimmicks help him/her to finish.

Thats why I would pay for the game and a yearly fee to play on servers. Running servers cost alot of money and making this free would meen the game would become more expensive.

[BongoBong]

How good you are, or are going to be, really should be decided by your own ability, and not by how many experience points you've accumulated, or alternatively by how much money you've spent to alleviate the need for this process. Unless of course we are roleplaying the rise of a pro to becoming a champion, rather than challenging ourselves to master a game/simulation.

For me, the worst thing about the otherwise rather enjoyable TW series was the way you gained stats that would 'help' the ball into the hole for you. I only really gain satisfaction from the thought that I holed the shot, not that the game did it for me.

I put out the suggestions for pricing without knowing which way they will go so tried to include pricing models for either way. I personally would be happy if they went either way.

 

I certainly see from a simply competitive standpoint how you want to just go up against an equivalent character, but progression is a very large incentive for many people to keep playing, be it through achievements or character progression, and I would imagine a career type mode of progressing your character would be a big incentive for a large number of players, as many people will still see this as a game, and not just a golf sim. I don't care about achievements but I do enjoy games where I can progress my character. Other advantages to progression of your character is that it makes courses have more replayability. It can be fun to see how you can now go over a corner instead of around it, or getting over that stream where before you had to lay up. The obvious potential problem with a system like this is courses becoming too easy as you get to higher levels, or courses being too hard when you are just starting out. This could be alleviated by making sure progressions are not too huge, and by adding things like different tees to play off of as you progress. 

 

Either way works for me, but I definitely see the advantage of having a career type mode when it comes to trying to be appealing to a larger group of gamers. Perhaps there is a good way to incorporate both without having to compromise on either.

 

edit. That TW online where it actually gets helped into the hole definitely seems like something I would hate to see in the game. But in itself isnt a good representation of how a progression based mode could work.

[axe360]

Never mind, futile...

[Dazmaniac]

I put out the suggestions for pricing without knowing which way they will go so tried to include pricing models for either way. I personally would be happy if they went either way.

 

I certainly see from a simply competitive standpoint how you want to just go up against an equivalent character, but progression is a very large incentive for many people to keep playing, be it through achievements or character progression, and I would imagine a career type mode of progressing your character would be a big incentive for a large number of players, as many people will still see this as a game, and not just a golf sim. I don't care about achievements but I do enjoy games where I can progress my character. Other advantages to progression of your character is that it makes courses have more replayability. It can be fun to see how you can now go over a corner instead of around it, or getting over that stream where before you had to lay up. The obvious potential problem with a system like this is courses becoming too easy as you get to higher levels, or courses being too hard when you are just starting out. This could be alleviated by making sure progressions are not too huge, and by adding things like different tees to play off of as you progress. 

 

Either way works for me, but I definitely see the advantage of having a career type mode when it comes to trying to be appealing to a larger group of gamers. Perhaps there is a good way to incorporate both without having to compromise on either.

 

edit. That TW online where it actually gets helped into the hole definitely seems like something I would hate to see in the game. But in itself isnt a good representation of how a progression based mode could work.

 

Just from the bit highlighted, it seems you are referring to some form of career, a la TW series, where you start out hitting the ball as far as a pre-junior and then through levelling up your character, you begin to gain yardage with clubs until you are at the point where you are bombing the driver 300yds +, hence the moving from going around obstacles to hitting over them.

 

Again, this just isn't for me. It's the LVL 14 -vs- LVL 5 scenario I referred to in an earlier post. I appreciate it may be what some folks want and it may be a draw to large communities of virtual golfers, who can start out as Billy Hacker and turn in to Bubba Watson.

 

I prefer to play a golf game where it is basically my ability at the game -vs- someone else's ability at the game (if handicaps are included as per a handicapping system, like in real life, then all well and good).

 

Maybe PP will cater for both gameplay styles down the road. Until we get some definitive facts from PP themselves as to which road the game will take, we can but discuss and offer opinion.

 

[Mike Jones]

There's probably room eventually for both a 'progressional' career mode and a more evenly based tournament mode.

 

I don't see any reason to discriminate against groups that might prefer to play one way or another. Of course a career mode takes a lot more thinking, planning and testing to do it justice and I really haven't seen a golf game do it well up to this point.

[BongoBong]

Just from the bit highlighted, it seems you are referring to some form of career, a la TW series, where you start out hitting the ball as far as a pre-junior and then through levelling up your character, you begin to gain yardage with clubs until you are at the point where you are bombing the driver 300yds +, hence the moving from going around obstacles to hitting over them.

 

Again, this just isn't for me. It's the LVL 14 -vs- LVL 5 scenario I referred to in an earlier post. I appreciate it may be what some folks want and it may be a draw to large communities of virtual golfers, who can start out as Billy Hacker and turn in to Bubba Watson.

 

I prefer to play a golf game where it is basically my ability at the game -vs- someone else's ability at the game (if handicaps are included as per a handicapping system, like in real life, then all well and good).

 

Maybe PP will cater for both gameplay styles down the road. Until we get some definitive facts from PP themselves as to which road the game will take, we can but discuss and offer opinion.

 

I think it would be great if there was both options, but as far as speculation goes I would be very surprised if the game had anything more than just the ability to play the game at launch. So I don't think you have anything to worry about 

 

But to get back to the point on hand. I think subscriptions are bad, and other means of monetizing are superior.

[Acrilix]

I would have thought that a paid subscription would be far better to attract the right type of people for an online golf game. The last thing you want when playing online is some casual player who quits after a couple of holes because he has one bad hole. A paid subscriber would surely be more likely to take the game seriously, and have respect for others who have made the same commitment, than a casual player who is playing for free.

[Mick-S]

I would have thought that a paid subscription would be far better to attract the right type of people for an online golf game. The last thing you want when playing online is some casual player who quits after a couple of holes because he has one bad hole. A paid subscriber would surely be more likely to take the game seriously, and have respect for others who have made the same commitment, than a casual player who is playing for free.

100% agree, of course what someone might consider a bargain someone else will think it expensive.

I would pay £40 for the game but think course forge should be included in that, don`t like the idea of being able to improve your shot making ability by buying better equipment, winning a tournament and getting sponsored with new gear that's fine or something along those lines, clothing for a small fee if you really want it that bad.

but then again I am 66yrs old and have blown/wasted so much money over the years, whats a few more quid, lol. I paid $102 to get NCAA14 College Football for the PS3 from the U.S.A shows you what I`m like, mad.